Gold Coins

Bucuriu · Post by **Bucuriu** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:21 pm

I give credit to the person who suggested this in bakery problem. If we could take out all the NPC's Economy would be great but then no new gold could be generated. (also no npc's would mean no new gold would mean bartering would come into play.) I suggested that goldsmiths be able to make coins: its only logical why wouldnt they be able to. Gold nuggets would make like 10 coins each. Something like that. (they did make gold harder to find then back when I played right?) Well thats the Idea.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:37 pm

Um..did I understand it right? You want to take out all the NPC's? Like Eliza and the human? I don't like the idea since Eliza owns the shop and she's always been there!

And the idea about gold smith can smith coins is unfair, because every goldsmith would smith so much gold until they can buy every single house they want and so on. It would be bad for the economy in my opinion. And every newbie would pg there goldsmithing skill to buy everything they need and just build a house because they want it and be gone in one week.

Well it would create a hole between rich and poor. And a house wouldn't mean anything anymore. To own a house is something special right now.

To conclude all this: I don't like the idea.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 10:23 pm

npc's like ogres and demons drop gold coins.

Faramier · Post by **Faramier** » Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:25 pm

Yes but people can powergame carpentry and then sell them to eliza and get lots of money and buy anything they want.

I got commended, hehe

Bucuriu · Post by **Bucuriu** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 3:33 am

true carpenters can do stuff like that too. Also a while ago gold smithing was hard and you didnt usually get gold nuggets when mining. I ussually got 2 gold nugets in 250 ore and coals time. If that was changed then change it again also didnt they make it really hard to powergame?

Maktan Hardtooth. · Post by **Maktan Hardtooth.** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 6:54 am

goldsmithing coins is not cheating. what do people do when they carpenter? make stuff go to eliza and get gold coins. the gold smithing just bypasses that. And after all, gold nuggets are hard to get. And as long as illaron keeps gaining playersg, there will never be too much gold floating about as more is made. so it IS a feasible idea.

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:18 am

Sorry, but the idea that everyone could smith his own money is rubbish.
Moneymaking is a right that is not granted to everyone. Only gouvernments have this right, and everyone else who would do it would be a forger.
As we don't have a real government right now, and it would be technically difficult to give moneymaking into the players hands money comes from Eliza. So just pretend Eliza is the only one who has the right of moneymaking on our island.

Arkadia Misella · Post by **Arkadia Misella** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:47 am

ALL HAIL ELIZA!
Drops to her knees and grovels

Bucuriu · Post by **Bucuriu** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:51 pm

Well what if there was a new skill called leadership or something. Would let you command mosters or something. and you had to have both leadership and goldsmithing to make gold coins.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:56 pm

What has "taming"/"commanding" Monsters to do with gold coin forging?
I cannot see a link.

Also it is very unliky that the creation of goldcoins is given into player hands, inflation would be the result.

Caranthir the great · Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:14 pm

Yes, except if the player would keep them all for himself. *hint hint*
I think, that this could be granted for a trustworthy player who has somekind of (GOOD) reason to recieve this kind of ability.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:38 pm

When America was still on the gold standard, gold dust was technically acceptable currency. In the 1800s it was more in use, though. So, don't say that moneymaking isn't for everyone. If you're going to go and try to mine gold, it should be allowed as a currency, but, if Illarion was farther along, the value of gold would fluctuate depending on how much gold is available. This would be a true economy. Gold dust should be implemented.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:45 pm

then we would need a weight sytem....

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:47 pm

Let's take a look at what would happen...

People lose sickles and craftsmanship tools all the time. You wouldn't be able to buy, say, a sickle from the NPCs. So, you try to go to a smith (assuming you find one on the time of day you go on the internet) to purchase one. But what would you purchase it with? Apples? Few smiths, especially dwarves, don't wish to barter their instruments for something that isn't shiny and golden. So, what then? Excel in smithing, and make one yourself. Why not?

Oh, that's right. You can't afford a hammer, or any other tool. Even if you do, they'll break, and you'll be screwed...again.

This would pretty much go for every craft...money making would, therefore, be impossible at some point.

As said a million times before, it's a computer game. But, it's still in its alpha stage, and not enough people come on (and the game isn't that advanced yet) to make it where the government or whatever ensures that money making would happen.

Kind of strange, isn't it, that the entire economy of the world rests on the shoulders of a nameless human and mysterious lizardwoman, isn't it?

Bucuriu · Post by **Bucuriu** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:01 am

The only reason we don't have many players is because of that stupid account system good god I hate it. Leadership would be like commanding stuff I don't know you're the GM. Also if you have to put so much time into the stupid account system to make sure we are all little angels at rping then why not have the Idea of making gold coins. If I actually lived back in the mid evil times who says I can't devolp my skill into smithing coins. BTW I just wanted to once again say the account sytem is stupid

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 8:10 am

Why do you hate the account system? Do you even know why they have an account system? Anyhow, I think gold weight system would be much more fun than just money. Currency we have is only worth what it is made out of anyhow, I don't see a problem. At the proposed rates you would lose money, so I don't see any real point to it except to excell at goldsmithing, which would be reasonable since you give up profit for skill which people do all the time.

How would this work?

Have different size nuggets forgable into different amount of gold coins.
gold dust = 1 coin
tiny gold nugget = 5 coins
small gold nugget = 10
medium = 20
large = 40
huge = 80

You relize though the chances of finding a tiny gold nugget are about 100/1, so in order to find a huge nugget it would be 1600/1. I think that is a reasonable ratio.

Why have it anyway?

Not accuall currency, making it much more realistic. Personally an island with no set government doesn't have have coins, more like gold chips.

Or instead of having them forgable, just make these different size nuggets sellable to eliza for a set price, then instead of selling them to eliza we could collect sizes and or use them as money. Alot of people would like to gloat about being the only ones with a huge gold nugget.

Arkadia Misella · Post by **Arkadia Misella** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 10:41 am

Goldsmithiung is hard as hell. Finding nuggets is difficult too. Somehow I see this only letting the older players prosper. Would you remove Eliza? If you did, how would blacksmiths and carpenters (etc) get gold? You know how hard it is to find one person on this island sometimes, lets alone someone wanting to buy something from you?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 1:34 pm

I don't see why you hate the account system. I just love it! I love it that only good rp'ler can play Illarion.

About the little angel stuff you wrote. That sounds to me like you think there are only good men and women in illarion who all love each other and they sure only find the big, bad monsters. Well sounds like the paradies. But Illarion isn't like that.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 2:09 pm

Bucuriu wrote:The only reason we don't have many players is because of that stupid account system good god I hate it. Leadership would be like commanding stuff I don't know you're the GM. Also if you have to put so much time into the stupid account system to make sure we are all little angels at rping then why not have the Idea of making gold coinsBTW I just wanted to once again say the account sytem is stupid

Apparently you don't understand why the accountsystem is there.
Allow me to explain.

Illarion is a online ROLEPLAYING game.
The main purpose is to roleplay. In the past, before the accountsystem, people who had no interest to roleplay or behave within the game rules were able to create a character without any trouble which greatly disturbed and spoiled the game for others.
The Accountsystem is doing what it is ment to do. It prevents the access for those who aren't suited for Illarion. Simple. There are plenty of games out there which have no requirement to roleplay whatsoever.

. If I actually lived back in the mid evil times who says I can't devolp my skill into smithing coins.

First of all, you probably wouldn't have ANY gold (coins or in any other form). But I nevermind that and play along. Let's say that you have a pile of gold and you want to turn it into goldcoins. Okay, despite the fact that you have no know-how of doing this you manage to turn them into coins of somekind. Then you start to use these coins for various purposes, village there, another here. Few days pass, the royal guards appear and execute you for counterfeiting money.. If you are lucky.
Most likely they'll make a warning for other peasants out of you.. Announce the day of your execution, then infront of cheering crowd they hang you, or use some even nastier method to pass the message to others.

Bucuriu · Post by **Bucuriu** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:51 pm

I hate the account sytem because I applied for a acount and made a mistake so they didnt except me. Now they won't reply to me ever I have sent atleast 6 more acounts(all good names) and none were even sent back not a good name or whatever message they give.

The gold dust sounds like a good Idea. by the way I think you mean 1/100 and 1/1600 =).

Back to the account system. Before they had the account system everything was just fine. I don't think I ever rember anyone who was really bad for the game. Whenever we had to say something OOC we put it into paretheses. Why fix soomething that already works.

Keikan Hiru · Post by **Keikan Hiru** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:07 pm

As far as I know, Goldnuggets are a commonly accepted good for payment amog the characters of Illarion.
Of course its value depents on the need of the market, but thats part of the fun.
Thats why I dont think that we dont need gold dust.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:19 pm

Well there is not really anything that regulates the value of this. The human regulates how much tools are sold for, and if you want any customers you must sell under his price. Is it possible to sell nuggets to Eliza, I don't suppose I've ever tried. I would try to compare one nugget's weight to gold coins, but it would sure take alot of coins. Maybe gold coins should be made a little heavier?

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Sun Nov 16, 2003 3:19 am

Keikan Hiru wrote:As far as I know, Goldnuggets are a commonly accepted good for payment amog the characters of Illarion.

Since when?

The problem is that there is no system available to know how much gold is in the world. You can't base a whole economy on guesses. I mean, our system right now is basic and barebones. It really needs some changing and I hope to see it in the new version, which I hear is coming out sometime this century.

Klith · Post by **Klith** » Sun Nov 16, 2003 7:59 am

The problem is that there is no system available to know how much gold is in the world.

This was also a major problem in European Medieval times as they didn't have proper maps nor had they explored the entire planet, but they got along. Illarion is based on these times so it fits.

Price your goods accordingly to the demand, it's how most merchants work.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:49 am

To my knowlage there is no demand due to most people not knowing how to goldsmith (including me

) or else I could get rid of the heavy things.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Sun Nov 16, 2003 3:14 pm

Klith wrote:
The problem is that there is no system available to know how much gold is in the world.
This was also a major problem in European Medieval times as they didn't have proper maps nor had they explored the entire planet, but they got along. Illarion is based on these times so it fits.

Price your goods accordingly to the demand, it's how most merchants work.

In an island with two cities, you'd know a pretty close estimate to how much gold there is. If people start spending more, there's more gold. If people don't spend nearly at all, there is very little. A shop owner can judge these things. But in Illarion, that is not done. It would be interesting if Eliza changed her prices with supply and demand. The more demand, the higher the price of the supply as the supply runs down. Interesting thought.

Faramier · Post by **Faramier** » Mon Nov 17, 2003 6:40 pm

Is your trading really that boring? Does everything have to be coins or ingots all the time?

When I buy I barter, I sell, herbs, food, tools, materials, you barter and haggle till you find something you need, you know the way they did it before coins were invented.

And even using nuggets and gems. GEMS! theres a good currency, you can dig them out the ground but they're still valuable.

Generally nuggets range from 30gp-50gp though they have been known to reach upworth of 80gp if your lucky.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 1:34 am

Yeah I try to trade goods for materials if need be, but generally I like good'ole currency that way you can use it to buy anything from anyone. Bartering is kind of like a gift-card situation, you can only use it at one place , this one place being kind of like a certain type of persons that would need what you bartered for.