Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

News that are published on the website can be discussed here. // Neuigkeiten die auf der Homepage veröffentlicht wurden können hier diskutiert werden.

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Post by Nitram » Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:59 pm

Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Hallo,

hier ist der Diskussionthread zum aktuellen Update.
Hier ist der News Eintrag.

Viel Spaß,
Nitram

---

Hello,

this is the discussion thread for the latest update.
You'll find the news entry here.

Have fun,
Nitram

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Post by Nitram » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:23 pm

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Wie im News Eintrag angekündigt einige Worte zu dem neuen Übersetzungswerkzeug im Client.

Dieses Hilfsmittel ist standardgemäß abgeschalten. Ihr könnt es in den Optionen aktivieren in dem ihr einen der beiden Übersetzungsanbieter auswählt.
Wenn ihr diese Funktion aktiviert und sie nutzt sendet der Client von eurem Computer direkt Daten zu dem jeweiligen Anbieter. Diese Verbindungen gehen nicht über den Illarion Server.
Was gesendet ist immer die jeweilige Zeile Text die ihr übersetzen wollt und ein paar Zusatzdaten für den Anbieter damit klar ist was der Client will.

Die ganze Sache funktioniert, wenn einmal aktiviert relativ einfach. Ihr könnt auf jede Zeile im Chat Verlauf im Client doppelt klicken. Dann erscheint unter der jeweiligen Zeile die Bemerkung, dass die Übersetzung abgerufen wird. Nach kurzer Zeit erscheint dann entweder die Übersetzung oder die Zeile verschwindet wieder, wenn der Übersetzungsservice nicht richtig funktioniert.

Wichtig ist, dass die Übersetzungsrichtung richtig gewählt ist. Wenn der Client auf Deutsch läuft ist die Standardübersetzungsrichtung von Englisch in Deutsch. Für den englischen Client ist es anders herum. Diese Einstellung kann aber auch angepasst werden. Wenn ihr Versucht mit der Einstellung von Englisch nach Deutsch eine Zeile zu übersetzen die schon Deutsch ist, kommt im besten Fall der gleiche Text, im Schlimmsten Fall kompletter Unsinn heraus.

Wichtig ist zu verstehen, dass diese Übersetzungen maschinell angefertigt werden. Sie haben keine sehr hohe Qualität und können nicht mit Rechtschreibefehlern, Abkürzungen, Sondernamen, alten Begriffen oder komplizierten Formulierungen umgehen. Wenn ihr mit jemanden spielt der auf diese Überstetzungen angewiesen ist, versucht eine einfache Sprache zu verwenden. Geht einfach davon aus, dass derjenige die Sprache nur schlecht versteht und spricht.

Trotz dieser Einschränkungen hoffen wir, dass dieses Werkzeug die Spieler die nur eine Sprache sprechen, bzw. noch große Probleme mit der zweiten Sprache haben, damit mehr Spaß am Spiel haben und mit größeren Teilen der Spielerschaft zusammen spielen können.

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As mentioned in the news entry a couple of words regarding the translation tool in the client.

This tool is by default disabled. You may activate it in the settings by selecting one of the two providers.
Once this tool is enabled the client will send data directly to the selected provider. Those connections are not relayed using the Illarion Server.
The data send consists mainly of the line you selected to translate along with some meta data so the provider knows what is expected.

Once activated the thing works rather easy. You can double click any line in the chat log of the client to request a translation. If you do so a line will appear that states that the translation is currently fetched from the provider. After a short time the line will show the translation or it will hide in case the provider does not work as expected.

The important thing is the translation direction. For a English client his is set to German to English by default. You can change this if you want to. If you try to translate a line that is already English with this settings in the best case the exact same line is returned, in the worst case utter non-sense is returned.

The important thing to understand is that the tool creates machine translations. They will not have a high quality and they can't handle typos, abbreviations, special terms, very old terms and complex phrasing. If you play with someone who needs to use this tool, try to use a very simple language. Just assume that the person on the other end has a poor understanding of the language.

We hope that despite those limitations this tool will allow the players who only speak one language or have major issues with the second language to play with a larger share of the community.

-------
Nitram

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Post by rakust dorenstkzul » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:30 pm

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Godspeed.

This translation tool is the good idea i never knew we needed.

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Post by Annabeth » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:33 pm

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Intelligence now has a small influence on how fast you learn skills.
Does this mean players with low intelligence will now learn slower than they did before this change?
The "Mental Capacity" system now reacts much slower on changed player behaviour.
How exactly does this work? What defines "changed player behavior" and how is it slower to react to it and in what way does it react?

Edit: To add onto my second question, more or less directed @Estralis
After a chat in IRC, I'm under the impression that this change means both MC gain and loss is slower now. If so, by how much? How grave is this change? Has already existing MC numbers of players been taken into consideration so that some players don't come out ahead of others due to having lower MC before the patch? (EG, Cadomyr just had a training event before the patch that raised a lot of peoples MC considerably).

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Post by Jupiter » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:46 pm

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Annabeth wrote:
Intelligence now has a small influence on how fast you learn skills.
Does this mean players with low intelligence will now learn slower than they did before this change?
Yes. But the biggest negative impact is limited to -10%.

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Post by Fooser » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:44 am

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

The INT thing seems a bit unfair .. Alchemists and (future) Mages are going to be putting points into that because it will likely serve a functional role for them outside of faster learning. Warriors/Archers/Etc don't have that overlap so they'll need to dump points into INT just to not get penalized, and it won't do anything else for them.

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Post by Nitram » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:53 am

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Ich denke die Idee hinter dem Einfluss von Intelligenz auf das lernen ist, der Versuch die größere Anzahl an Skills, die Magier und generell "Klassen" die Intelligenz nutzen, lernen müssen auszugleichen.

Am Ende ist Estralis am besten geeignet darzulegen warum diese Änderung eingebaut wurde.

Bitte zieht euch nicht über die Maßen an diesem Punkt hoch. Ich denke nicht das ihr dieses Einfluss beim Lernen merkt.

----

I think the idea behind this is that the mages (or in general the "classes" that actually use intelligence will be required to learn a larger amount of different skills to get to full strength. I think this intelligence influence is in there for that reason.

But Estralis is the one best suited to answer this question and the mc question best.

Please do not overrate this influence of the intelligence. I highly doubt that you will notice the influence of the intelligence on the skill gain at all.

Nitram

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Post by Po Will » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:54 am

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

It kinda makes sense, can we expect some brainless hunk who waves around a pointy, sharp bit of metal to pick up or learn at the same pace as someone who has to mentally focus beyond everyone and anything? It'll balance out players who're ignoring these skills, and give reason to not completely ignore one area of attributes.

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Post by Jupiter » Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:05 am

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Fooser wrote:The INT thing seems a bit unfair .. Alchemists and (future) Mages are going to be putting points into that because it will likely serve a functional role for them outside of faster learning. Warriors/Archers/Etc don't have that overlap so they'll need to dump points into INT just to not get penalized, and it won't do anything else for them.
With more agility you can walk faster AND attack faster.
With more strength you can carry more stuff AND attack stronger.

Everyone has to walk and to carry stuff - yes, even mages :P -, seems as if warrios have an advantage there. ;)

The idea is that attributes do not only have "local" uses (that is an effect that is only useful for a certain group) but also a "global" uses which can effect every character (of course, les prominent than the local use). Strength and agility already did exacatly that. And so does Int now.

Besides, the effect of Int is rather small (really). So it won't hit you as much as you might fear.

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Post by Kugar » Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:49 am

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Really nice update :D

Suggestion: let us alter our attribs accordingly.

p.s. just a suggestion.

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Post by Fooser » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:46 am

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

With more agility you can walk faster AND attack faster.
With more strength you can carry more stuff AND attack stronger.
When it comes to combat those are luxuries, not necessities. Having certain skill levels are necessities. Right now warriors and archers have to seriously consider addressing 7 different attributes:
Strength (DPS calculation)
Dexterity (DPS calculation)
Perception (DPS calculation, crit chance)
Constitution (survivability)
Agility (armor/defense)

+essence (future magic resistance?)

and now +intelligence to avoid the learning penalty

For a mage (this is theoretical at the moment obviously) what would they need? Essence, intelligence, willpower, constitution?

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Post by Hew Keenaxe » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:49 am

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Kugar wrote:Really nice update :D

Suggestion: let us alter our attribs accordingly.

p.s. just a suggestion.
There is an NPC in each town that lets you change your attributes already.

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Post by Hew Keenaxe » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:59 am

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

All my armor is now showing as lvl 0.

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Post by Nitram » Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:42 am

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Ja. Die Level aller Rüstungsteile sind auf 0 gesetzt. Wir korrigieren das so schnell es geht.
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Yes. All armor levels are set to 0. We'll fix that as soon as possible.

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:57 am

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Yes, the intelligence bonus is a global bonus of this attribute. Almost every attribute has such a bonus. The bonus is comparable low (+/-10% max), so you'll barely notice it unless you have extreme attributes (2 or 20). That fighters need tons of attributes is a different topic, to be addressed in future. Also, the attribute needs for mages are not fixed yet. Magic is still in its conceptional phase. But it looks like mages will have around seven skills, so they won't complain about a little boost to learning I guess. Note that mages will also be able to fight and fighters might learn magic.

The damping of the MC system was increased by a factor of 2.5. The so called MC factor that directly scales the learning was not changed. So you start from where you were before the update. The system was not designed to consider daily events but mid to long term player behaviour. If this change turns out not to be sufficient, we can apply a factor of 5 as well.

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Post by Hew Keenaxe » Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:58 am

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Nitram wrote:Ja. Die Level aller Rüstungsteile sind auf 0 gesetzt. Wir korrigieren das so schnell es geht.
----
Yes. All armor levels are set to 0. We'll fix that as soon as possible.
Does this affect there ability? Do I need to worry about gemming them?

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Post by Ragorn » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:33 am

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Running does not work anymore.

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Post by Nitram » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:38 am

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Hew Keenaxe wrote:
Nitram wrote:Ja. Die Level aller Rüstungsteile sind auf 0 gesetzt. Wir korrigieren das so schnell es geht.
----
Yes. All armor levels are set to 0. We'll fix that as soon as possible.
Does this affect there ability? Do I need to worry about gemming them?
Yes it did. It made all armor useless. :D But I just restored the values from the last state I had. I'll have Vilarion check the backups for a newer version, but I guess it works with the values we got now.

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Post by Nitram » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:39 am

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Ragorn wrote:Running does not work anymore.
It works for me.

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Post by Hew Keenaxe » Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:17 am

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

I cant seem to gem any armor, unless the way to do it has changed. I double click the gem, get a menu, select an armor, click it, ... nothing.

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:10 am

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Hew Keenaxe wrote:I cant seem to gem any armor, unless the way to do it has changed. I double click the gem, get a menu, select an armor, click it, ... nothing.
I just tested on the devserver and game server and cannot confirm any problem with socketing. What exactly do you expect to happen and what happens instead?

Also, running works for me just fine. Are you encumbered perhaps?

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Post by Kugar » Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:55 pm

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Hew Keenaxe wrote:
Kugar wrote:Really nice update :D

Suggestion: let us alter our attribs accordingly.

p.s. just a suggestion.
There is an NPC in each town that lets you change your attributes already.
Yeah. I seen them. Have you seen their prices? Pay double what you did before to undo or improve attribute changes? Logic does not exist there. Even the gem unsocketer blokes aren't so bloody cruel. Currently I have to pay 64 gold or something dumb like that because I kept changing them according to the client changes and new information about attribs coming in. Nope, sorry. Won't do it.

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Post by Ragorn » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:47 pm

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Nitram wrote:
Ragorn wrote:Running does not work anymore.
It works for me.
For me it works definetly not. I use STRG (CTRL) to switch between walk and run mode. And then navigate via mouse or arrow keys.

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Post by Ragorn » Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:51 pm

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Ragorn wrote:
Nitram wrote:
Ragorn wrote:Running does not work anymore.
It works for me.
Works now ;-)

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Post by Vern Kron » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:51 pm

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

For the record, the translation tool is found in the settings menu in the login screen, not the account stuff in the launcher.

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

What account stuff in the launcher?

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Post by Vern Kron » Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:50 pm

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

You open illarion. There is a black box with lots of buttons on there. One of them says account, and it links to the webpage. The translator is not there. Nor in any of those other buttons.

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Post by Q-wert » Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:38 pm

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Image

Image

Lia

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Post by Lia » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:22 pm

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Kugar wrote:
Hew Keenaxe wrote:
There is an NPC in each town that lets you change your attributes already.
Yeah. I seen them. Have you seen their prices?.

Die Preise des Trainers sind in der Tat sehr heftig. der niedrigste ist 1 Gold und erhöht sich jedes Mal um das doppelt. Was ich als sehr heftig empfinde. Man kann hier besser Geld verdienen als vor dem VBU , Ja. Aber noch nicht das man sich solche Dinge leisten kann ohne EWIG zu sparen.


Was das mit der Intelligenz betrifft. Man lernt noch langsamer wenn man wenig Intelligenz hat. Und ganz ehrlich so langsam wie ich vorher schon lernte, lerne ich bald rückwärts. o.O
10 Stunden für 1 halben Skillpunkt im hohen bereich. Jetzt mit dem Einwirken der Intelligenz kann ich sicherlich nochmal 10 stunden obendrauf werfen um dann so an die 20 Stunden für einen halben Skillpunkt zu brauchen. Mit viel Glück. Daraus folgt das ich mehr Spielzeit damit verbringe stumpfsinnig zu skillen um überhaupt einen Fortschritt zu sehen, anstatt etwas zu skillen um mich über einen Skillpunkt zu freuen und dann rpn zu gehen.

Klingt hart ist aber eine frustrierende Tatsache die jetzt schon dazu verleitet hat weniger zu spielen, weil der Spaß auf der Strecke bleibt. Jetzt verspüre ich nicht mal mehr die Lust überhaupt einzulogen.

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:37 pm

Re: Update 26th of June - Update 26. Juli

Um die gegebenen Zahlen zu verwenden: Du wirst zwischen 9 und 11 Stunden brauchen. Nicht 20.

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