Evaluating the "Threat" of Monsters

Here you can make and discuss suggestions to improve the game. / Hier kannst du Vorschläge einreichen und diskutieren um das Spiel zu verbessern.

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Post by Azuros » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:53 am

Evaluating the "Threat" of Monsters

Fighting monsters, beasts, and demons is a large reason why a lot of players enjoy roleplaying games. Illarion is no different. I am by no means highly experienced in this aspect of Illarion's gameplay, but I have dipped my toe into it from time to time. Something that always struck me as very odd is that there is no safe way to know the relative threat that enemies pose to your character.

I might be fighting skeletons with ease, hardly getting a scratch on me, but suddenly one of them will hit me so hard and fast that I find my character stumbling back. Experienced players will likely recognize which monsters are more dangerous than others, but new or inexperienced players do not.

While Illarion's initial concept was to remain as far away from showing numerical values to players, we have been distancing ourselves from this concept in many regards. Transparency is a good thing so that frustration with the game is limited for new players.

My proposal is that there be a way to examine enemy monsters and compare their relative danger to you. This can be vague as we need it to. Messages like "This enemy looks really tough." or "This seems like an even match." "You can easily best a group of these." This also helps because it will give players an idea of how helpful training against the monster might be without wasting their time. A lot of this type of information is already shared by players OOCly anyway, so why not present it in a clear and useful way?

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Post by Charlotte-ate-wilbur » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:29 am

Re: Evaluating the "Threat" of Monsters

I fully agree with this.

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Post by Achae Eanstray » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:33 am

Re: Evaluating the "Threat" of Monsters

Just a reminder for proposals and adding to one.... not just an opinion but constructive examples for and against including how it would help the game, thanks viewtopic.php?f=94&t=38019

I played a game where a monster that could be hard but successfully fought with the right equipment etc. had a red tinge to it. One almost impossible had a purple tinge and a very easy monster would have a blue tinge. It was very informative and you could use it to judge if you wished your character to fight or run depending of course on numbers. However this may be hard to do with the graphics of Illarion.

As far as assisting the game it could give new players the same advantage older players have i.e. knowledge of what kind of monster they wish to fight. It could also allow more exploration. I would prefer not to read it in a sentence.. but have a graphical display for less "in the face". If a sentence possibly something like a whisper so it wouldn't interfere with the play.

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Post by Azuros » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:34 am

Re: Evaluating the "Threat" of Monsters

My inspiration for the idea came from playing Final Fantasy XI, a very old (at this point) MMO. When you see an enemy, you have the option to "check" them, and it would give you back a single line that would give you a general idea, and also a hint if the monster was particularly good in a certain attribute. The latter part is likely unnecessary in Illarion though may be nice. Messages like "This enemy looks very tough, it has a high defense." were the type in that game.

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Post by Rincewind » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:09 pm

Re: Evaluating the "Threat" of Monsters

if we could see their equipment that would be hint enough i geuss. maybe we could kinda check them like PCs?

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:19 pm

Re: Evaluating the "Threat" of Monsters

To evaluate the absolute threat of a monster and display this in a reasonable way should not be too much of a problem. But a relative threat means we'd have to evaluate how strong your character is against this specific monster. That is not that easy; like if you are a good swordsman but equip a club you have low skill in, you'd not prevail. Same holds for attributes; a mage with high intelligence might take out a golem or two but a character who charges at a golem with a mage's hat on the head and a walking cane might not have such a good day. Therefore, if a relative threat shall be evaluated, a very precise proposal is needed how to calculate this (formula, no general thoughts). I would actually prefer we go for an absolute threat that does not change as soon as I switch weapons but gives me a general idea how strong a monster is.

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Post by Achae Eanstray » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:22 am

Re: Evaluating the "Threat" of Monsters

I think the absolute threat would be generalized yet enough to help new players. *waits the opinion of others* How hard would this be to put into place is a factor also.

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Post by snus-mumrik » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:28 pm

Re: Evaluating the "Threat" of Monsters

I've seen games with color-codes to indicate monster's level. I don't quite like it, as it is a little bit of immersion breaker (though surely convenient).
I would prefer to have "monster lookAt", similar to player lookat:
- it may give hints to monster level
- it gives place for some lore details
- it may look similar for monsters and players (I see no reason why a character should treat monster orc warrior differently from a hostile player orc)
- it may be customized by scripts or GMs for special cases
- if desired it may sometimes be ambiguous or misleading (to introduce more lore, e.g. "beware of the small blue flies, they are terribly venomous")

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Post by Azuros » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:04 pm

Re: Evaluating the "Threat" of Monsters

snus-mumrik wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:28 pm

- if desired it may sometimes be ambiguous or misleading (to introduce more lore, e.g. "beware of the small blue flies, they are terribly venomous")
Please no, the game is already way more confusing than it needs to be in a lot of places. Let's not purposefully introduce ambiguous or misleading information.

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Post by Babanta » Wed May 29, 2019 11:33 am

Re: Evaluating the "Threat" of Monsters

This might take a huge effort to take this into effect though.

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