Discussion: Guilds - why these can't survive
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:06 pm
After my personal several attempts to create Guilds or expereinces of being a member of other guilds leaded and managed by others and observing those existed through a some time, I started considering what a main reason might be why those projects each short time tended to the end of the existance.
Often the visible reasons were: lack of players, low enthusiasm after a time, disappering of the leader
Important to observe, that in each organized structure of people with same sense of target (like business, political party or association to serve specifical people in need, etc.) in the real world all theorists of the authoritism or the power always divide skills of power to two sections: Managing and Leadership.
In the simple words I can explain management as skill of creating the processes of how activity of a group should work.
For Illarion we can describe this as knowledge how to write official posts at the RP-forum, how to create friendly rules, how to set or define together goal/s of the group, or how to build structures of guild and how to create specifical system for rewards for the members for their activity or punishment for work against in-guild rules or its members, specifical laws, regulations etc.).
This is simply to notice, that something important is lacking here.
Second skill of the power is Leadership. Level of skill shows up in sudden situations, that no theoretical system can predict. The life. Leader has to know how to engage people to work together for setted goal/s, by operating emotions of the workers/followers. Actually in Illarion seems it's easier to imagine, that skill Leadership here is much more important, than creating a specifical system, that managers create. Enforced RP Game like Illarion is engage people to play, because those emotions game can offer. Most because people don't log to the game, because of the profit they wish to get into their wallets the Leadership is more important, while in the real life their values are rather equal.
Most of the people here I suppose would describe this situation as better, because no one want to treat game like a job. This is logical and okay. The problem is within that, the Managament skill is not important because its boring, but because its not useful. Of course we read official posts in the RP-forum, but their task is to hit the emotions of the people and rather less to obtain defined goal/s (except the one to attract people to that guild). Their main role is not to improve quality of the together work/act, because this would be useless and would only disattract people.
Actually its also easy to observe, that only guilds or group exist only when the guild has at least some power in the management of the town its exist (Guild can create the rules on which sudden emotions and temporary actions have no push). All existing guilds fullfil this requirement: Bearers of the Fire and Cadomyrian Noble Houses. All others are forced to disappear. I'm sure if the Bearers of the Fire would lose their power in the town, this guild could fall apart like all before them.
I am not against those groups above and their existance nor if their rule (because this should be in the game matter). The problem I see is within, that actually systems of the getting materials and static tools are not encouraging people to create new groups and causes stagnation in the game, that makes people to not log in, because if they are not gm-ranked in the town they have no motivations to play. They can get lvls, but after reach last wanted skill, common player loses interesting to play, even if says this was not even a reason.
Some people say: if they played only for lvls they were no roleplayers. This opinion is the core why people don't play. Those people played according to the Rules, never breaking immersion and had interesting characters, those strong psychical structure they cared. Also people as reason give different things, that have no logical causes why this low interesting to play happens. They deny real reasons, because they don't want to make an effort to realize the serious effects of those elements/mechanisms acts. And those acts are like fudament of the house (it can't be saw, because its under the ground).
If the official static tool would give possibility to create items to only let say lower level (e.g 50) or lower quality (e.g. very good), when making better would be limited to static tools buyable for specifical npc (those tools would need repair), that I am sure much more engage people to form own guild (if people drop that idea of "lets build building/area/place in the town for all for free") and raise online up, at least among old players who stopped to play, because this can give them common, together goal and new experiences they lack from the current situation.
And if the materials can have own limits (those should restore after longer time than now; e.g. once ig month or just once ig day), that can also stimulate economy, create the conflicts between towns or citizens of a same town, and also creates together actions between characters like guilds for workers or crafters who fight against not registered workers/crafters or against citizens of different towns who steal their resources. I see many posibilities to write a new stories if this system would be placed.
Honestly killing a computer monsters at Letma or any different place is boring after some time, a fun only for the few who control rest people. I am sure those who are still treated like just a mob if they get a chance they can manage themselfes alone better than now (without this "shutting up" system of no goals for character. and without "let's create everything for everyone for free!").
Karrock
Often the visible reasons were: lack of players, low enthusiasm after a time, disappering of the leader
Important to observe, that in each organized structure of people with same sense of target (like business, political party or association to serve specifical people in need, etc.) in the real world all theorists of the authoritism or the power always divide skills of power to two sections: Managing and Leadership.
In the simple words I can explain management as skill of creating the processes of how activity of a group should work.
For Illarion we can describe this as knowledge how to write official posts at the RP-forum, how to create friendly rules, how to set or define together goal/s of the group, or how to build structures of guild and how to create specifical system for rewards for the members for their activity or punishment for work against in-guild rules or its members, specifical laws, regulations etc.).
This is simply to notice, that something important is lacking here.
Second skill of the power is Leadership. Level of skill shows up in sudden situations, that no theoretical system can predict. The life. Leader has to know how to engage people to work together for setted goal/s, by operating emotions of the workers/followers. Actually in Illarion seems it's easier to imagine, that skill Leadership here is much more important, than creating a specifical system, that managers create. Enforced RP Game like Illarion is engage people to play, because those emotions game can offer. Most because people don't log to the game, because of the profit they wish to get into their wallets the Leadership is more important, while in the real life their values are rather equal.
Most of the people here I suppose would describe this situation as better, because no one want to treat game like a job. This is logical and okay. The problem is within that, the Managament skill is not important because its boring, but because its not useful. Of course we read official posts in the RP-forum, but their task is to hit the emotions of the people and rather less to obtain defined goal/s (except the one to attract people to that guild). Their main role is not to improve quality of the together work/act, because this would be useless and would only disattract people.
Actually its also easy to observe, that only guilds or group exist only when the guild has at least some power in the management of the town its exist (Guild can create the rules on which sudden emotions and temporary actions have no push). All existing guilds fullfil this requirement: Bearers of the Fire and Cadomyrian Noble Houses. All others are forced to disappear. I'm sure if the Bearers of the Fire would lose their power in the town, this guild could fall apart like all before them.
I am not against those groups above and their existance nor if their rule (because this should be in the game matter). The problem I see is within, that actually systems of the getting materials and static tools are not encouraging people to create new groups and causes stagnation in the game, that makes people to not log in, because if they are not gm-ranked in the town they have no motivations to play. They can get lvls, but after reach last wanted skill, common player loses interesting to play, even if says this was not even a reason.
Some people say: if they played only for lvls they were no roleplayers. This opinion is the core why people don't play. Those people played according to the Rules, never breaking immersion and had interesting characters, those strong psychical structure they cared. Also people as reason give different things, that have no logical causes why this low interesting to play happens. They deny real reasons, because they don't want to make an effort to realize the serious effects of those elements/mechanisms acts. And those acts are like fudament of the house (it can't be saw, because its under the ground).
If the official static tool would give possibility to create items to only let say lower level (e.g 50) or lower quality (e.g. very good), when making better would be limited to static tools buyable for specifical npc (those tools would need repair), that I am sure much more engage people to form own guild (if people drop that idea of "lets build building/area/place in the town for all for free") and raise online up, at least among old players who stopped to play, because this can give them common, together goal and new experiences they lack from the current situation.
And if the materials can have own limits (those should restore after longer time than now; e.g. once ig month or just once ig day), that can also stimulate economy, create the conflicts between towns or citizens of a same town, and also creates together actions between characters like guilds for workers or crafters who fight against not registered workers/crafters or against citizens of different towns who steal their resources. I see many posibilities to write a new stories if this system would be placed.
Honestly killing a computer monsters at Letma or any different place is boring after some time, a fun only for the few who control rest people. I am sure those who are still treated like just a mob if they get a chance they can manage themselfes alone better than now (without this "shutting up" system of no goals for character. and without "let's create everything for everyone for free!").
Karrock