Summoning monster

Here you can make and discuss suggestions to improve the game. / Hier kannst du Vorschläge einreichen und diskutieren um das Spiel zu verbessern.

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Charlotte-ate-wilbur
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Summoning monster

Post by Charlotte-ate-wilbur »

I had considered this place to be a place of proposals. Who cares if Druids can tame animals or summon them? I'm genuinely interested in how this affects the fact that mages (according to some players I've spoken to) used to be able to summon creatures in this same way and now it's planned that they will not? I did give pretty good reasons and examples on how many high fantasy themes which involve magic also involve summoning. Maybe there is a technical limitation I don't know about? If there isn't a technical limitation do you think responding this way to a legit suggestion is helpful? Or do you think broadening the scope of Illarion is not more of a priority?

I just feel this is unnecessary resistance to a legit suggestion. If it's 'balance' thats the concern and we don't want other 'classes' having similar capabilities I would then ask 'why?' People should have more freedom of character development.
Last edited by Charlotte-ate-wilbur on Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jupiter
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Re: Artifact Creation

Post by Jupiter »

It's better to have distinct abilities to sharpen the profile of the different magic classes. I don't see much sense in giving different classes same effects. At least not in the same fashion. So if summoning stuff should be included in the magic class, I would use skeletons etc.
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Charlotte-ate-wilbur
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Re: Artifact Creation

Post by Charlotte-ate-wilbur »

True, it would be odd if everyone was summoning animals, I did hope it'd be different for each class, but summoning will be an incredibly useful skill for particularly squishy classes. :P
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Dantagon Marescot
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Re: Artifact Creation

Post by Dantagon Marescot »

I think it would make sense for magic to have something pertaining to necromancy. So skeletons and other undeads would fit. Unnatural monsters. Where as druids, being closer to nature, is more likely to call regular animals, and perhaps make friends with more sentient forest creatures who would come to their aid.
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Banduk
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Re: Summoning monster

Post by Banduk »

The original idea was to have a mage class druids, where summoning is part of. And I can't see a reason why druids should have the white part only and create living creature just to left the black part of summoning undeads to anybody else. Druids aren't the good only people!

Just because there is any development at the moment with glyphs and artifacts, that will find a way in the game in the next year, we shouldn't impose all missing functions and open wishes to these minor part. I don't see summoning of creatures in artifacts or glyphs. Especially artifacts I see some issues by collecting 20+ summoning artifacts and releasing them within a short time. This sounds way too powerful for me.

Nevertheless we could think about having summoning for mages in some way too. Why not specialize one of the five! open wand skills into that direction? Or having at any level (e.g. skill 70) a capability to summon a creature bound to air, earth, fire, water or spirit?

The point is, where should be the differences in betheen:
  • mages
  • druids
  • priests?
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Flint Stoneside
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Re: Summoning monster

Post by Flint Stoneside »

Also, you could potentially have different classes of magic. If someone wants to summon skeletons then maybe they don't have the same skills as a mage who focuses purely on destruction. Not sure if this makes sense or has been tried before and failed. Just wanted to add my thoughts to this post.
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Karrock
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Re: Summoning monster

Post by Karrock »

I think they want to create 5 arcane classes based on elements. Fire, water, air, earth and spirit. Five different skills. I am not sure only if at least one of them will contain necromancy.

Best for necromancy in my opinion would be if has it priest (templar) of Cherga or Moshran. Better if priest (templar) of Cherga has power to weaken/destroy summoned undead and priest (templar) of Moshran has power to summon undead.

Of course arcane mages like Banduk wrote could have a power to summon ethical neutral creatures but sill "uncommon": "earth" golems, "air" golems, "fire" golems or such...

Druids as representatives of magic of nature should have a power to summon only natural creatures: wild animals, agressive plants or weather effects.

And if we talk about Spirits. Summoning them is not a part of arcane magic, nor divine magic. This is a part of shamanism, and shamanism is not a divine magic, nor arcane magic. This is a common core for them, because before magic were divided to those two were the times when humanity followed animism and were believing that everything has own spirit. Even shaman can't control summoned spirit. He can only ask for something that spirit to do. Spirit can agree or not and always wants something in return. Speak with them seems to be a barter. I would don't like to see that someone can control any spirit to lead them to a fight (in the example).
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Charlotte-ate-wilbur
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Re: Summoning monster

Post by Charlotte-ate-wilbur »

I don't think Shamanism and arcane magic really have any difference from a lore standpoint on Illarion, it's merely another name for a 'magic user'.

I don't think there will be more specific magical classes nor is there really a need to, keep in mind it takes some time for a warrior or a crafter or max out all of his/her skills for the desired outcome. So the journey to the title of archmage and being a master of the elements still has to start somewhere. So this leaves alot of room for specific types of magic users, some may favor earth spells for controlling their enemies and others may start out as fire users with intent to roast their enemies.
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Karrock
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Re: Summoning monster

Post by Karrock »

But I think after some time a char who picks arcane magic will master all elements. Playing a pure one/two ways mage because of rp reasons will be not useful like we see this now when a player creates crafter and after some time skill up all crafts. Warrior learns all types of weapon/armor to get be important in the fight. And when I played my shaman I had much difficulties to choose a class between druidism/priesthood/magehood so I couldn't decide. Anyway I agree that asking for code up shamanism is waste of time because there are only 3 players interested in (one is me). I just say that spirits summoning should rest only during rituals supported by GMs (in the reason of low interesting), and also because regular summoning a spirit by a shaman is not just a "spell" to use during fight. It takes hours or days or weeks or even months (in relation how strong spirit you call).

Anyway a person who wants to play shaman can use other class similar "spells" to rp his/her char. Like healing or predicting future, or getting informations by a distance, or getting short duration bonuses to attributes, or cure disease or such but mechanically a char who doesn't use all his mechanical class skills or moves is weak.

Edit about shamanism as mechanical system: If I would code shamanism I would create an act what shaman has to do in special surrounding to get contact with specific spirit using music instruments and/or herbs. After such a contact shaman would ask for specific effect and will get a random wish from spirit to deliver him random item/do random task. After get item/done order she/he needs to repeat ritual. After connecting again with same spirit and realisation his order would be a draw for success/fail/bad effect for a shaman or even people around her/him during ritual. If she/he success then gets a spell she/he wanted. Shaman has this spell to use in the time she/he decides. But I don't see in this spells-list a summon anything -> nor item, nor monster to use against other npcs/pcs.
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