NPC to check MC

Here you can make and discuss suggestions to improve the game. / Hier kannst du Vorschläge einreichen und diskutieren um das Spiel zu verbessern.

Moderator: Developers

User avatar
Morbius
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:20 am
Location: Straya.

NPC to check MC

Post by Morbius »

So I had a pretty simple idea, and that idea is to place an NPC into the game that is able to check what level a character's MC is currently at. Possibly in exchange for a small fee of 20 silver or some other appropriate amount. I have personally experienced a lot of frustration and uncertainty when trying to determine weather or not my MC is "low enough" so that I can make the most out of a training session or "too high" so that I should stop training. I can only imagine it would be valuable to crafters as well who might need to learn the most out of a particularly rare resources and what not.

I understand it used to be something GMs could do so the "tool" already exists, and hopefully isn't something that is too challenging to be put into the game in a form that is beneficial for all, and would create some much needed clarity regarding the MC system.
User avatar
Falyame
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:41 pm
Location: Auenland

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Falyame »

Its usefull to know high your MC is exactly due to the fact that it is not self-explanatory, especially for a newbie like me. I heared about the MC after around 1 year of playing that game and I didn´t know how it worked exactly (and I don´t even know what "MC" stands for).
User avatar
Estralis Seborian
Posts: 12308
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:14 pm
Location: Sir Postalot
Contact:

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Estralis Seborian »

User avatar
GolfLima
Posts: 1472
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:06 pm
Location: hier und dort

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by GolfLima »

as i know:

MC = mental capacity

but how exactly it works i also never understand
User avatar
Morbius
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:20 am
Location: Straya.

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Morbius »

Your orb idea is actually much better than my NPC idea. I like it because it's free, and would be with you all the time! In some ways it reminds me of the old Illarion skill display where your skills would gradually change color instead of reflect the appropriate numerical value, which is a slight concern since the MCs "main issue" could be considered to be it's transparency.

I actually like the idea of a "bar" as well (which I think was mentioned in the original thread), but I guess an orb would look nicer even if it's a little 'vague' for my taste.
User avatar
Hew Keenaxe
Posts: 1012
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:47 am

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Hew Keenaxe »

Any clue would be nice. It is so important to this game, and none of us know where they stand.
User avatar
Morbius
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:20 am
Location: Straya.

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Morbius »

Hew Keenaxe wrote:Any clue would be nice. It is so important to this game, and none of us know where they stand.
You're completely correct. ANY CLUE. Would be better than what we have at the moment... which is more or less no idea at all.
User avatar
Athlon
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:11 pm

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Athlon »

Nur mal so in den Raum gefragt !

Kommt das Bitte Bitte wieder ins Spiel , oder ist es schon wieder im Spiel und man muss es nur finden ( weil unkommentiert eingeführt ) ?
User avatar
Estralis Seborian
Posts: 12308
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:14 pm
Location: Sir Postalot
Contact:

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Estralis Seborian »

Was ist "das"? Also was soll "wieder" kommen?
User avatar
Athlon
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:11 pm

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Athlon »

Oh Sorry

Ich meinte meinen Beitrag passend zum oben erwähnten Thema .

Aber dann halt so ;) besteht die Überlegung so einen NPC im Spiel einzuführen um seinen MC Wert herauszufinden ?
Mein Englisch ist leider nicht vorhanden und Tante Google sagt mir beim Übersetzen einen Wortsalat
aus dem ich nicht wirklich Schlau werde .
User avatar
Q-wert
Posts: 1089
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 10:13 am
Contact:

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Q-wert »

Es ist geplant ein GUI-Element einzuführen, welches anzeigt in welchem Bereich sich der MC befindet.

Siehe:
Estralis Seborian wrote:Re: NPC to check MC
http://illarion.org/mantis/view.php?id=11366

Have a look at this.
User avatar
Jupiter
Developer
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 11:23 am

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Jupiter »

Unlocked upon request
Vermillion Dynasty
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Vermillion Dynasty »

Thanks.
Just wanted to bring some attention back to this topic, and in particular the idea I had of a temporary inform system, without making a new thread about MC.
Concept can be seen in the comments here: http://illarion.org/mantis/view.php?id=11366

Basically my idea is to, until we have a GUI to do it properly, give players a general inform upon log in about approximately how high or low their MC is, but in a way that does not break atmosphere.

EG:
If your MC is really high, you'd get this: "[Mental State] You feel exhausted. Now is not a good time to learn something new."
While if it's really low, you'd get something like this: "[Mental State] You feel great! Maybe today is the day you finally master that technique you've been practicing?"

I already coded and tested it, so here's what it'd look like in game:
Image
User avatar
Estralis Seborian
Posts: 12308
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:14 pm
Location: Sir Postalot
Contact:

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Estralis Seborian »

At one point, I am rather inclined to remove MC entirely from the game than making it so present. When I reworked the MC system from scratch, my intention was that one does not need to worry about MC (many might remember the "You cannot learn anymore" type of messages) or even skillgain vs. interaction at all. The big idea was that whatever you do, however you play, you learn at the same overall pace. Now I see that players, for many years, misunderstand the system as "high MC = bad, you learn less, so better idle" / "low MC = good, you learn more" and that the optimum strategy is to play in cycles of activity and inactivity. This metagaming isn't really positive for Illarion. The proposed messages encourage this even more. Note that the orb of activity proposal had its "green" (=good) state around average MC, not low MC.

Can anyone help me understanding what we can do that players just forget about MC or do not see it as something that controls how they play? Is it because rare materials are too rare and players want to get the optimum skillgain out of the rare materials? Is it because fighting monsters is costly due to repairs and the loot does not cover the expenses - so one fights as little as possible and idles instead to get lower MC?

When exactly was the time when Illarion became so much about skills? When did standing around in a chamber in Galmair, doing nothing, not interacting with anyone, become the way of playing Illarion? What would players encourage to actively seek others to interact with?
Brightrim
Developer
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:21 pm
Location: Gallifrey

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Brightrim »

For me it's mostly that it's boring to skill.
So when I am going to skill, I want it to be fast.
Low MC means it is fast, the problem is just that I do not know _when_ my MC is low or high, so I dont know when it will be annoying/boring to skill (when MC is high) or when it would be quick and less of a hassle to skill (when MC is low).
If there is anything happening IG to be roleplayed: Then screw knowing what my MC is.
However, many times nothing happens IG. People are either skilling, offline or out of new ideas for RP. Meaning you either don't play or you stay in game and either skill or idle.
Idling means you have a larger chance of bumping into people who are up for RP, as you don't have to go to a distant mine or whatever and can instead stay at a depot, at the same time as your MC lowers so the next time you skill something it won't be such a hassle. Thus, I personally would like to know when my MC is high/low.

When it came to be about skill rather than RP though? With the VBU. Fewer people spent all their time pre-vbu only skilling. So something changed there.
User avatar
Estralis Seborian
Posts: 12308
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:14 pm
Location: Sir Postalot
Contact:

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Estralis Seborian »

Brightrim wrote:However, many times nothing happens IG. People are either skilling, offline or out of new ideas for RP. (...) Fewer people spent all their time pre-vbu only skilling.
Thank you, let's work on that! I fully understand that skilling is what can be done if there is no one around. Yet I observe players actively avoiding interaction by parking their characters in places no one would go to normally. It is good that MC motivates players to stay ingame rather than logging out but what we need is a positive motivation for interaction.

So, what can be done to make players think about new ideas for RP, make them care about other things than skills? Would removing MC - and making skillgain speed the same for everyone all the time - actually have any benefit on all this? I am not entirely against "showing" MC but not in a way that it is suggested that low MC is "good" and high MC is "bad". Playing passively should not be encouraged.
User avatar
Vern Kron
Posts: 1565
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:20 pm

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Vern Kron »

Estralis Seborian wrote:
When exactly was the time when Illarion became so much about skills? When did standing around in a chamber in Galmair, doing nothing, not interacting with anyone, become the way of playing Illarion? What would players encourage to actively seek others to interact with?
You literally can't make people want to interact with other people. You can code a lot of things. You can set up a lot of situations. But at the end of the day, you can't actually force people to want to interact with other people.

I'll be honest: MC when the ability to check it was removed, I was pretty angry. And then, we went to a system where you are always learning atleast a little bit. And now, I honestly don't think of MC at all.
It does cross my mind when dealing with high level crafting, because materials for them are somewhat scarce (see: pure elements).

As for why skills are so in focus: it is because to feel relevant to the game on some level, most people/characters feel a need to be able to prove their value.

The impression that it feels like in a wide section of the game:
To be relevant in Cadomyr, you have to be strong. You have to be an adequate warrior. That means you need to be able to fight, and to be able to fight well. Which at this point in the game has evolved to mastering every piece of armor and weapon type. Why? Because we are now mixing and matching armors to optimize our styles of fighting, because there is so little variance in the rock/paper/scissors game of fighting that people try to gain any edge they can. It is actually sub optimal to be specialized. Gems only compound this issue.

To be relevant in Galmair, you need money. Which is literally just powergaming. There are very few ways to gain money in Illarion that do not require you to grind. And I mean a meaningful amount of money. And the higher your skills, in theory, the faster you can make that money you need to be relevant. Gems don't matter as much in this rat race, but they can be sold for profit.

Runewick doesn't rely on skill, it relies on influence. This is a pretty tricky thing to do, because it means you need to connect, and impress, the right people. So far, since I have been playing for 2 years now, I don't recall ever seeing anyone manage to do that.

Beyond that, have you noticed the game lore? It actively insights for the factions to be against each other. Almost every npc in Cadomyr talks about killing Galmairians. I'm all for conflict, but realize in that environment, characters/players are going to start focusing on honing their skills in order to be the best and overcome one another, than sit around talking about... the weather?
Which brings us to another point: Aside from using skills, what is there to actually do in Illarion? What grand events take place? We have Letma, and currently we have Jefferson, both of which have breathed some life into the game. It gives a purpose to some of the actions. But beyond that, what is there really to talk about? What is there for our characters to really strive to become, besides the best?

One of the things that /desperately/ frustrates me is how static Illarion is, and we do it in the name of balance. "Every town has their special thing!" Ok, great, but what you are effectively saying is that the towns cannot ever grow beyond what they already are. We can't explore or develop towns further than what already exists.

So then it gets pushed on to the GM team to liven things up. And the real thing that they can do, is only cause hamstrings to characters. Creating opportunities for town development can't occur, because it might disrupt the balance of the game.

An overly balanced game, in which there is no movement, only creates stagnation. Long term players have no incentive to build wide, so instead they build up, on a singular character.
I see literally players and characters, ig and ooc, upset that things are happening IG. Whenever someone breaks from the codified normative play (as in, don't disrupt what I want to do, at all), the answer is to complain to the gm's, and beg to shove them into a permanent jail sentence away from other players. And to be perfectly honest, I have done that before, and believe there is a time and place for that exact thing.

There is this weird, false hierarchy IG, that players give other players. Chancellors, nobles, deans, are all just regular characters. They also have access to a one day ban from town ability, and can make keys.
OTHER THAN THAT, everyone's characters are in essence on the same playing ground, and that is a /very/ good thing. It means characters and players should have enough personal agency to do what they want. Yet half the time, there is this feeling that if they /really/ did that, they are going to get punished. A player should not feel threatened to do something, because they are nervous about offending and stepping on another character's ego. There is a place for being mindful and polite. We play /with/ each other. However, that concept should not be used to stifle the efforts and desires of other players. Again, pot calling the kettle black, I know.

If you want roleplay, if you want things to change, you have to allow a step away from 'easy' and 'direct'. You have to step away from 'balancing all resources'. You have to allow players to go away from the beaten path, because roleplay is in and of itself, the act of going away from that beaten path. Our characters are designed not to be just like all the other npc's of Illarion. That would be boring as hell. They are dynamic firestorms, full of growth and potential, of mistakes and victories, of intellect and emotion.

But Illarion doesn't care about that. Illarion cares that the long-term player has a reason to stick around, and stay in their spot. That the only way to balance is through complete statistical unity. (Fun fact, there is no difference afaik from a drow bow to the crafted one. So why bother with a 15 piece quest when you can just buy it?) That conflict be decades old feuds and alliances, that won't truly resolve, so three towns live in a weird allied tension.



Edit: An old game I used to play would have incentives for holding events and participating in them. Basically a ticket, and those tickets yielded various rewards: special character races unlocked, different kinds of objects, etc.
Ranwyln
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:03 pm

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Ranwyln »

Hm i think thats a problem that can't be solved, you/I want progress ingame skillwize, or it would be boring and char "evolution" would be stagnating.
Giving skillpoints for actively interacting roleplaywize would mean problems in controlling when someone is rping or not.
Each person playing Illarion has different goals, some want to rp the hero, the master, the idiot or something else, whatever you want to be you need a solid foundation on your roleplay and that are normally the skills, someone saying i am the best fighter, dying fighting a bee is just not working rpwize, same with a cook, an alchemist and so on, so you need to skill.
I guess its in the nature of people to maximize profit vs effort, so when you are on your computer anyways why dont just idle ingame lower that mc and next time you smith, cut herbs whatever you will need less actions of the thing you want to skill as without beeing idling.

I personally liked it more pre VBU that the "MC" would lower offline too (slowlier as online). Cause especially if you are doing a crafting skill the amount of needed materials increases extremely when the mc is high vs mc is low, so if you want to skill, but dont want to waste your "active" online time with mining like stupid you are more or less forced to idle around when possible to make the active time most profitable in rping or skilling. And as it is people playing Illa are more or less the same over years (with breaks) they are getting older, having less time.

At the moment the advice i normally give to new players (and where most of them end up at some point especially when skilling fighting) is like alright maximize a gathering craft so you atleast have something to do without increasing your mc when no one is around, or stand their and idle. And not everyone wants to start the evolution of a character in its teen years, when learning things to do.

So without a complete rework of the skill/crafting system (and i dont have an idea how) i think it will stay like this (for example: the adding of skills like digging (seriously?) and the need of it to do something like digging out treasures gave me three options, always find someone skilled in digging even if i just want to do some average to big treasures to relax without interacting (yes sometimes i do stuff like that just to relax), stop digging out treasures what would keep me from logging in, or idle around skill it to the point i need it with the less waste of active time ingame so i have more time to do the things i like to do when active online (like treasuremaps and stuff).

So without changing too much, maybe it would be an idea not to add tons of skills but make the existing ones more detailed, so more items to do, more difference between low/high end items (so they would be worth the materials), could even mean to increase skill from max 100 to max 200 to have more stages in between where to add items, more different ingredients needed to do stuff (more ores, more herbs, more metals, more of everything but less skills ;) )

(sorry for grammar language mistakes, maybe sometimes i wasnt able to express what i wanted to say so just ask )
JacobB
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:12 pm

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by JacobB »

Estralis Seborian wrote:When exactly was the time when Illarion became so much about skills?
It started when the original and really unique concept of the founder "a game without numbers" was dropped.
When did standing around in a chamber in Galmair, doing nothing, not interacting with anyone, become the way of playing Illarion?
When MC was introduced and the players recognized, that doing a small server related action resets a timer and continues to relax the MC burden.
What would players encourage to actively seek others to interact with?
Introduce the need to interact with others!
- focus on specialization instead of generalism (e.g. think about skill trees or something similar, which disables jacks of all trades)
- introduce scholar / teacher system for every skill which is worth for (but I completely dislike the former elitism as it was usual for mages, this should be avoided in any case)
- remove useless gathering skills (okay, does not really related to your question.. with a scholar/teacher system it maybe makes no sense to keep them)
- downgrade durability of items (will increase need to buy more new equipment)
- remove repair (this is not related to current change!) (will increase need to buy more new equipment. be honest: a crafter wants to sell new and expensive equipment instead to repair something found in drops or crafted by another crafter)
- change dealer NPC: buy everything, but sell nothing (or only low to intermediate equipment and NO resources needed for crafting)
- degrade saturation of custom food and free food
- add more quests that can only be solved by more than one char
- add quests that depend on very special skills, which cannot be available in one single char
- add "group" bonus: the more players play together, the higher the bonus (e.g. drops, treasures, chests, increased drop rates for elements and gems, skill gain, MC usage/gain, ...)
- taxation: put taxes on material assets to avoid players hoarding collected stuff and give it away to other players, which will reduce possible trades
- decrease the depot sizes drastically (sounds bad on the first view, but will enforce that only the really needed stuff is kept, first step could be to disable containers (bags, baskets) within depots)
- add guild depots (should have bigger size than personal depot)
- and, and, and..
JacobB
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:12 pm

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by JacobB »

Vermillion Dynasty wrote:
Just wanted to bring some attention back to this topic, and in particular the idea I had of a temporary inform system, without making a new thread about MC.
Concept can be seen in the comments here: http://illarion.org/mantis/view.php?id=11366

Basically my idea is to, until we have a GUI to do it properly, give players a general inform upon log in about approximately how high or low their MC is, but in a way that does not break atmosphere.

EG:
If your MC is really high, you'd get this: "[Mental State] You feel exhausted. Now is not a good time to learn something new."
While if it's really low, you'd get something like this: "[Mental State] You feel great! Maybe today is the day you finally master that technique you've been practicing?"

I already coded and tested i
Great, I wanted to add a similar proposal for that, and you already implemented it beforehand!

We need no GUI (or the proposed orb in the mantis ticket) - that simple player inform is all what we need!

This inform does not hurt anybody and helps us not to waste our time in skilling, when it is not efficient.

Please take that over from test into game environment!
Vermillion Dynasty
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Vermillion Dynasty »

JacobB wrote:
Please take that over from test into game environment!
Would require permission from the developers.
Estralis Seborian wrote: The proposed messages encourage this even more. Note that the orb of activity proposal had its "green" (=good) state around average MC, not low MC.
The messages can be changed. Would generalizing them morel like "[Mental state] Good." be better? I only added the descriptions to make it more clear to new players not aware of the mental capacity, what the mental state was about. Same goes for the ranges. I can make anything below average MC "=good" if that's what's wanted, though I personally prefer the ranges I suggested myself (obviously since I suggested them) as they are vague, but at the same time covers the areas I notice more important changes of speed in skilling in. Though I could also make the ranges of "exhausted - tired" into just "exhausted" and "good, great, perfect" into just "good" and then keep the normal range as well, making it three even more vague ranges if that's what's wanted to give less focus on reaching a certain range?
Brightrim
Developer
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:21 pm
Location: Gallifrey

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Brightrim »

JacobB wrote: - focus on specialization instead of generalism (e.g. think about skill trees or something similar, which disables jacks of all trades)
Jupiter had a great idea about having a trait system, where each character could only have a few traits each (like more health, or being able to craft special armors, or casting spells faster) that would make characters specialize more. Either given at creation, or points earned through gameplay.
User avatar
Kugar
Posts: 595
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:07 am

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Kugar »

- downgrade durability of items (will increase need to buy more new equipment)
- remove repair (this is not related to current change!) (will increase need to buy more new equipment. be honest: a crafter wants to sell new and expensive equipment instead to repair something found in drops or crafted by another crafter)
- degrade saturation of custom food and free food
- taxation: put taxes on material assets to avoid players hoarding collected stuff and give it away to other players, which will reduce possible trades
- decrease the depot sizes drastically (sounds bad on the first view, but will enforce that only the really needed stuff is kept, first step could be to disable containers (bags, baskets) within depots)
This doesn't sound encouraging at all. It may work in a way that provides some brief encounters, sure. But if the history of this game should teach us anything - it's that when you take stuff away or chip away at already established stuff in the game, players leave or lose motivation to play. It's like giving someone a bowl of food and then, once they got around to the idea of eating it, you take half away and add more salt.

The game clearly is designed in a way that game masters are needed (game masters control all towns and nothing meaningful can happen without their permission), so you need the game masters to create more roleplay scenarios that encourage players to actively work together. You've provided reasons already to visit blacksmiths, carpenters and tailors more, as well as reasons to go dungeon hunting more, but its not really enough. Map hunting falls under that category, too. Stuff like that just keeps a group of people busy for a very limited period of time.

A quick example of roleplay that encourages interaction:

EG: The Don has just made a deal with the crooked baron Haussefagen of Gynk, and requires the town to obtain 10000 gold ingots and 5000 merinium. Once obtained, an armed brigade of warriors should help deliver the goods to the harbor (might be a good idea to get carpenters to build a contraption for delivering it there :wink: ). Oh no! On arrival, you're attacked by pirates! Can you fend them off and ensure the goods are transported safely? If successful, the reward shall be a large cash sum which can be used for town development, as voted for by the townsfolk in a meeting that takes place in the crest of Galmair.

IMO storylines that promote roleplay and interesting stuff happening in game are the best way to encourage interaction. Players could obviously do this by themselves, but the way they are limited in the in game world keeps their hands tied in a way.
You literally can't make people want to interact with other people. You can code a lot of things. You can set up a lot of situations. But at the end of the day, you can't actually force people to want to interact with other people.
Agreed. So, if you want to get people together, give them a storyline reason. If there aren't enough game masters, get more? I don't mean that to be condescending, either.

I don't have all the answers, by any means, but you're welcome to my brain fart above ^.
Brightrim
Developer
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:21 pm
Location: Gallifrey

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Brightrim »

With our limited amount of GMs available, I see three solutions that could help:
1. Get rid of dependency for GMs (Have towns be player lead and let the decision whether to implement map changes go directly to the map developers, and not have to get permission from some GM played town leader first)
2. Get more competent GMs.
3. Encourage players to do more on their own.

On another somewhat related note, I've noticed lately that "villain RP", something that can take place between players without needing GM involvement and could very well bring life to the game without GM dependency, has become less about interactions between the good and bad, and more about good guys going "ugh these villains keep disrupting all our things lets just ban them and not go out into the wild when we see them on the list".
Which seems mostly a response to "villains" of late just relying on the engine to try and ghost you, or running if they are defeated (even after stumbling back) rather than allowing themselves to be captured.
I mean what's the point about villain RP if there is no RP, no consequences of the outcome(other than getting sent to the cross), and it just relies on pure engine (sometimes, like my character experienced TWICE, to the point where you get killed in three hits after a one-line emote, due to the fact that your character is wearing clothes and not armor, so that you don't even get the chance to emote or say anything) I mean that's just discouraging and makes the game seem like some PvP focused king of the hill type of game, and not a game that focuses on roleplayed interactions.
This is criticism to the state of villain RP in general, BTW, and not all directed at those particular people I experienced this with. I'm more interested in hearing why it has degraded to become like this, and what can be done to change that. As the mindset of "Must rush in and kill as fast as possible" and "Must run and chug a health pot to escape and avoid capture" must have originated somewhere, when both scenarios could and idealistically should be roleplayed. Are people too afraid of consequences for their character? In the first case not having time to kill the person they attacked, if they emote, in case others arrive to save them? In the second case being afraid of getting ghosted, or being afraid of being captured?
User avatar
Kugar
Posts: 595
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:07 am

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Kugar »

Which seems mostly a response to "villains" of late just relying on the engine to try and ghost you...
The villains destroyed the Galmair mine tunnel, damaged the Malachite mine entry, left cursed blood and gut pentagrams everywhere, summoned undead for the heroes to kill (for a bit of fun) and, currently, there are large columns with the initials JG outside Cadomyr. Correct me if I am wrong, but aside from slaying the small groups of npc creatures and cleaning up the cursed blood and guts with a bucket of water and some cloths, there hasn't been much of a response to any of that stuff. I currently have many other ideas to provide obstacles for your chars to accomplish, through role play, but we cannot rush everything through so quickly, even if I want to. There has been berserk, chaotic slaughters, sure. But that was just to put chars on notice and maybe prompt a response of some kind. You will notice, such hasn't happened in a week or two. And you can expect it to happen even less. Some times it was done poorly, agreed, so that needs to be fixed, too.
...or running if they are defeated (even after stumbling back) rather than allowing themselves to be captured.
Who stumbled back? I have noticed a lot of players run and gulp potions after Jefferson knocked them back, so not sure that you can claim some kind of superiority on that one. Surely you have noticed that, besides a handful of chars like Lizzie roleplaying their wounds (and even killing themselves off), such a thing as accepting defeat and playing out your wounds seems to be a thing of the past all round. People get sent to the cross and then run back into the fray, or even go back to brewing bottles or sewing clothing a few hours after nearly meeting their demise.
I mean what's the point about villain RP if there is no RP, no consequences of the outcome(other than getting sent to the cross), and it just relies on pure engine
I must whole heartedly agree and look forward to the roleplayed responses to the current blights and oppressions on the towns. The villains had their share of accepting consequences - like killing off Jefferson for several months, Dreadhart eternally imprisoned (probably dead) etc. Everyone needs to accept consequences, even if they don't go in your favor. Our characters have flaws and feelings, so laughing off everything and treating such huge threats with passive apathy is pretty unsporting, if not entirely ridiculous.


EDIT - I suppose I should think of a proposal to fix some addressed issues:

1) On encounter, both sides should allow for emotes and conversing in order to get inside each others heads. This is important on both sides, 'good' and 'bad'. What must be done by Jefferson must be done by Ssar'ney - both as guilty as each other for running in to fight quickly.
2) Treat your PO in game opponent with the respect they deserve. If an obstacle is provided for you, solve it rather than ignore it.
3) Provide more interesting punishments and consequences - eternal jail or perma killing my character sounds like no fun.
4) Try to make the game interesting for both sides - create scenarios/brain teasers/puzzles/problems that give these characters a reason to interact with their world and add to a more profound storyline.
5) Bear with each other - what may look like some temporary might be building to something greater. So don't jump to conclusions that the PO is just trolling and hate them for it, but give them the benefit of the doubt that they work to something that could be quite interesting.
6) If your character is ghosted, it is not the end of the world. Just go with it, if you aren't equipped to face your enemy head on, just don't do it.
Last edited by Kugar on Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Brightrim
Developer
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:21 pm
Location: Gallifrey

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Brightrim »

Kugar wrote:People get sent to the cross and then run back into the fray, or even go back to brewing bottles or sewing clothing a few hours after nearly meeting their demise.
I don't agree with people running into the fray after being sent to the cross, even during Mas when against the engine monsters.
But you can't expect that someone will respond positively to an instance like this:
#me lunges
*proceeds to kill an unarmed person in 3 hits in front of several npcs watching without giving any time to respond*

Who would feel the urge or motivation to properly RP out consequences for their character, when not even left the choice of responding at all?

During Mas I experienced a purely emoted fight that lead to my character, voluntarily by me, having a broken arm for the next month, and still being fearful of the culprit to this day. But using the engine to kill people without even waiting for a single emote of response, as if it's about setting some record in quick kills? How is someone supposed to have their characters fear such people? Such actions lead to apathy and annoyance, as the poor quality of RP is met with the same.
User avatar
Jupiter
Developer
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 11:23 am

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Jupiter »

I would kindly request to stay on on topic.
User avatar
BjarsTale
Galmair
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:14 pm
Location: Galmairs Underworld

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by BjarsTale »

I like the idea of the MC report at the log in.

But its not really necessary, just RP, do something that not waste your MC and try to skill again, then you can see yourself when its a waste of time.
User avatar
Kugar
Posts: 595
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:07 am

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by Kugar »

Jupiter wrote:I would kindly request to stay on on topic.
Sorry about that. I really like the proposal, it saves people wasting time skilling.

@ Brightrim - This will be my last response about it. It was bad, we're agreed. He stood there, screamed at your character, them emoted to lunge. Not great, sometimes we get carried away. I edited my post above to maybe provide some potential solutions to the problem.
User avatar
GolfLima
Posts: 1472
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:06 pm
Location: hier und dort

Re: NPC to check MC

Post by GolfLima »

1) ich bin zu faul um all die ENG Beiträge zu lesen
2) ein NPC der die MC "checken" kann wäre eine nette Ergänzung
3) Eine Info über die MC beim Einloggen wäre auch eine schöne Zugabe
4) ich bin auch zu faul meinen Beitrag in ENG zu übersetzen
Post Reply