Balancing PvP: Potions: Quasi-Invunerability

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Q-wert
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Balancing PvP: Potions: Quasi-Invunerability

Post by Q-wert »

Propably the most simple and maybe unimaginative solution:

What?
Increase duration and decrease regeneration effect of healing potions after the intial health boost.

Why?
Right now one can endure many most fights infinitely by drinking healing potions. Even in PvP.

Edit: Renamed thread.
Note: See Foosers summary two posts down for quick overview on the whole matter.
Last edited by Q-wert on Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jupiter
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Re: Increase cooldown for healing potions.

Post by Jupiter »

As I wrote in the other topic, I would prefer a more immersive and creative solution. E.g. Gradually decreasing a potions strength which each potion drunk in a short period of time.
Fooser
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Re: Increase cooldown for healing potions.

Post by Fooser »

All these topics can be summarized by the fact that low scale PvP is very clunky and frustrating. I think the reason for this ultimately is that people have a number of options to become "invincible" or "semi-invincible" to avoid defeat:
  • Overpowered/unbalanced gems - Having sets of really high level gems, plus the fact that they're currently unbalanced especially in relation to gems that are put into weapons. Some characters are totally immune to damage of certain types.
  • Healing potions - These potions can be used indefinitely, immediately upon the previous healing potion wearing off.
  • Unlimited movement - This allows for a lot of kiting and indefinite running away.
During the great battle (close to one year anniversary!) these issues weren't a problem because both sides had enough people to damage down anyone despite these problems. But that's not the norm. It's usually a single criminal or small groups or hit and run attacks so these problems become very noticeable. I think all three of these things have to be addressed and not just one or two. And the fixes would need to be sensible to not break other aspects of the game (PvE).

I think the following would be fair, depending on how difficult they are to implement:

Unbalanced Gems

Based on what others have been saying, there are known problems with gem balancing, so this may be a non-issue at some point.
  • Properly balance weapon gems in relation to armor gems.
  • Lower weapon disadvantages against armor types a little more.
Potions
  • Shorten the duration of "buff" potions.
  • Implement a system of diminishing returns on healing potions used within a certain period of time.
That would look something like this:

Potion 1: 100% Effect
Potion 2 (if used within 5 minutes of the first potion): 75% Effect
Potion 3 (if used within 5 minutes of the first potion): 50% Effect
Potion 4 (if used within 5 minutes of the first potion): 25% Effect
Potion 5 (if used within 5 minutes of the first potion): 10% Effect

And it would stay at 10% effectiveness until you lower the amount of healing potions you use in any five minute window. This would still allow for players to mitigate burst PvE damage while lowering chugging in PvP.

I think that'd be the best option, but another would be to have a built in failure percentage (~20%) on every healing potion used, meaning someone can be burst down in PvP if they're falling behind and their potion fails. But I don't know if that'd fix the problem. The failure would make the potion 10% effective which would be weak while stopping them from using another potion until the duration of the 10% potion is over.

Infinite Running

Characters can run across the map indefinitely with basically no restraint. This is a major advantage especially for high agility characters. They can run/kite forever while potion chugging or regen-ing naturally through constitution.

See discussion:
http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... 94&t=40991
personal favourite: slowing movement down relative to (PvP?)damage taken & given
Would be ok, but is there any feasible way to differentiate PvP damage vs non-PvP damage in the client?
Disable potions ..when a character is targeting or targeted by another character.
This could lead to trolling .. people targeting others just to slow them, etc.
Disable potions ...while a character is affected by a potion.
The full duration of warrior potions? Seems too extensive. If the buff potions duration is reduced requiring smarter timing, or if this effect only kicks in for healing potions, this would be a decent option.
Last edited by Fooser on Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Vern Kron
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Re: Increase cooldown for healing potions.

Post by Vern Kron »

An alternative approach can be seen in some of the Witcher games:

Potions add a level of 'toxicity' to your character, and once you cross a threshold, you begin to take damage. In this way, you could continue chugging potions as you so please, but there is also a cost to doing so, through health. As more potions are drank, and toxicity levels reach even more dangerous levels, the damage will outscale even the best healing potions.

This could also be a method of introducing toxins, toxic potions, and poisoned weapons (with purpose) to the game. On the other hand, toxic weapons would have to have a few other contributing factors, as if a person was hit three times with a poisoned sword and starts to take extensive DoT, that would be a touch overpowered.
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Rincewind
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Re: Increase cooldown for healing potions.

Post by Rincewind »

How about we fix the magic gems first before jumping to new proposals that make fighting even more complicated?

#same post - related topic
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Q-wert
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Re: Increase cooldown for healing potions.

Post by Q-wert »

Topic regarding the bugged weapon gem bonus: Display Correct Gem Bonus on Weapons
Mantis ticket for bugged weapon gem bonus: #10548
I did some simple coding way back in mid 2015 for a fix, theoretically it is ready to go.
Mantis 2015-11-17 wrote:ltgmkay: It looks like what Q-Wert posted here was a very solid, easily implemented solution. Why was this not implemented?
Estralis Seborian: Because no one did it.
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