Running away with low health

[Xanthe Talon]

I propose the less health a character has, the slower they run.

[Applesauce]

So, you want to be sure you can catch that one you harmed. We play with, not against. If they run, let them go. Fight another day.

[Kyre]

So characters like mages that have low con and agility, would run even slower from monsters? We'd never get away...Bad idea.

[GolfLima]

I propose the less health a character has, the slower they run.

what is the reason or the idea behind this propose?

[Rincewind]

Because PVP is a hot mess of chars running around like chicken ^^.

It's a difficult decision, it will make fighting very very risky. And properly end all single player action in dungeons.

[Mephistopheles]

I propose the less health a character has, the slower they run.

what is the reason or the idea behind this propose?

I'm not going to answer that one.

[Xanthe Talon]

So characters like mages that have low con and agility, would run even slower from monsters? We'd never get away...Bad idea.

I did not mean low overall health, I meant low health as in the character is wounded and would run slower because they are wounded. How does this idea not make logical sense? If you are wounded, you would run slower.

[Q-wert]

All characters have a pool of 2000 Health, constituion and agility don't influence that. However, constitution does provide some damage reduction, and more importantly, superior health regeneration.

I am guessing the proposal to aim at what Rince was pointing at: If you know what you are doing, you can run away from basically anything. Moreover, PvP is more chasing the wounded, the wounded drinking potions and those formerly chasing backing away from those under effect of healing potions, than actual fighting. "A hot mess of chars running around like chicken" describes it well.

I see this proposal result in one thing mainly: Getting away from combat against a superior foe without potions becomes difficult. And with the extreme differences of combat strength between various constellations of PvP and PvE, and most people looking for a fight bringing plenty of potions (I know I do), I don't think that to be a desirable result. Right now untrained or attribute-wise weak combat characters can at last run over and explore the map to an extent and player characters can run if they bump into some nightmarish level 5 creature someone lured near the gates.

The general idea of slowing characters committed to combat down might be something worth examining. I'll just throw some ideas out:

How about a less drastic approach with running (not walking) costing a tiny amount of your food bar if the character targets something or is targeted themselves? This way both sides of the chase in PvP still 'can' run, but at the expense of food items (which might have to be made acessible during combat then) if they wish to keep regenerating. Due to the omnipresence of hostile npcs being targeted by monsters might be taken out for that.
An approach from that direction would encourage to slow things down or at least increase the need for (not all that widely used) food items.

Alternately: Maybe store damage taken and damage dealt for the last 2 minutes or so and decrease movement speed in relation to that? This way both sides involved in the fight would slow down, making it less like hot chicken like.

[Karrock]

We should return to this idea after Magic and Priest System to be fair for everyone.

[GolfLima]

I meant low health as in the character is wounded and would run slower because they are wounded. How does this idea not make logical sense? If you are wounded, you would run slower.

so a broken/wounded arm results in a slower speed? sorry, this doesnt make sense for me

We should return to this idea after Magic and Priest System to be fair for everyone.

good idea

[Q-wert]

I meant low health as in the character is wounded and would run slower because they are wounded. How does this idea not make logical sense? If you are wounded, you would run slower.

so a broken/wounded arm results in a slower speed? sorry, this doesnt make sense for me

Not on the first few hundred meters, maybe. But blood loss, pain and internal bleeding are quite hindering in regards of long distance chases (which do happen ingame), even if your wound is located on a body part not vital to running. You at least would break down considerably earlier from fatigue in the real world.
But wasn't the general consensus to put balancing and an enjoyable game before realism? Also the magic system in the works (runes) has no active, only supportive, roles in combat, and the other ones won't be done in the foreseeable future. I don't think ideas to flesh out mechanics of the game in use should be outright disregarded because there might or might be something implemented in a handful of years that is not out of its concept stage yet.

I also think that ideas to slow down the chaotic hit and run combat in PvP are at least worth discussing. But then again, that might just be my condescending view on things.

[Fooser]

Wouldn't mages still be at a disadvantage though? On average their agility (innate walking speed) and constitution (regen) will be lower. I assume they'll be dissuaded from using the best types of armor as well (less mitigation).

This feels like a solution to a narrow problem. It may be satisfying in pvp but would cause nothing but annoyance otherwise (trying to walk around outside towns, treasure diggers getting annihilated,etc.).

A better solution: End potion chugging.

[Mephistopheles]

When you can't win a conflict with the engine, change the engine so you can!

Shouldn't we still be addressing the poor balance of magical gems? One character should not be able to face down three fully maxed and fully gemmed opponents and escape unscathed.

Bob shouldn't be able to take zero damage from archers either.

Features should balance themselves, not fit certain players so they can end things their way. Just saying.

I agree this suggested feature would be fitting, however there needs to be considerable work before it can be implemented in all fairness to everyone in the game.

[Jupiter]

Bob shouldn't be able to take zero damage from archers either.

From an archer with maxed skills, great (nearly perfect) attributes + potion, lvl 100 bow with high gem set Yeah. It is known that gems in armour are heavily imbalanced. But it was scary to see HOW bad they are balanced.
I think we already have a proposed solution in mantis for that.

However, the problem we have here is that combats are a crazy chicken fight. Making the potion cooldown longer (as proposed by Fooser) wouldn't fix that. If it all it would make the crazy chicken fight shorter - but it would still be a crazy chicken fight. Illarion's fighting system was made for a game without running. I am not sure how to bring those two things together.

[Q-wert]

When you can't win a conflict with the engine, change the engine so you can!

What an excellent idea.

Gems are broken on a technical level (as the damage increase in weapons is neglectable and nowhere near the displayed percentage, while damage reduction from armour works as intended), there is a Mantis task for that sitting over by Evie. Thats also the reason why Ssar'ney and Jefferson can bash at each other almost without end, or Rini can't touch Bob, by the way.

The heavy use of potions is intended from developer side. Personally I'm indifferent to the matter.

I don't see the ideas of mine putting magicians or any other glass cannon characters at an disadvantage as claimed by Fooser. Things would merely slow down for those involved (which might even be helpful for targeting or not running into trees).
The first also probably would have resulted in Ssar'ney dying in that one on three fight Mephy is referring to, as he did take a lot of damage but was able to keep himself up with healing potions. Without the option to quickly retreat after heavily commiting to the PvP-fight, they would have got him.

Old ideas:

• personal favourite: slowing movement down relative to (PvP?)damage taken&given
• running causing hunger while targeting or being targeted by player characters

More ideas (just throwing them out):

• disable running
  • ...while a character is affected by a potion.
  • ...when a character is targeting or targeted by another character.
  • ...if a character is within a certain radius of combat (determined by targeted player characters).

[GolfLima]

* do we realy need the game engine for fights PvP?
* are we not able to solve this without engine?
* bad, that we are not able to play together - only play against each other

[Jupiter]

I do not understand your post, GolfLima. Do we really need an engine for crafting? Do we really need an engine for alchemy? It is one of the biggest misconceptions some people have that using the engine for fights makes you somewhat a worse roleplayer. Illarion is not some irc-based chat roleplay. It is a roleplay with a fully developed engine in all parts; that includes fighting.
Rp + engine = really great stuff.

Edit: Aynway, that is off-topic. The one who started the threat pointed out an important problem. We should focus on that.

[Fooser]

The heavy use of potions is intended from developer side. Personally I'm indifferent to the matter.

To inflate demand for alchemist products? I don't see any other substantial benefit, this current attitude is very different from what has been done historically (heavy limit on usage during battle). Running can be an annoyance but isn't potion chugging part of this too? I've fought people who stood in place and couldn't be defeated within reason due to potions.

And I was addressing health based movement, not the others. The point is it's satisfying for pvp but not pve.

[Q-wert]

To inflate demand for alchemist products?

Yes. I know that I've been told that be the intent behind the rather recent changes towards convenient handling of potions in battle. For details, you'll have to ask them devs.
I wound't mind to see a cooldown between the use of healing potions or a longer and weaker regeneration effect after the initial health boost.

[Jupiter]

There is a cooldown for healing potions. You have to wait until one wore off before drinking the next.

The recent change was that you can use them while having someone in aim. The reason for that is user friendlyness. Clicking while running away or trying to unaim a targt that is running is sometimes quite difficult. This has nothing to do with balancing per se.

But yes. Potions are supposed to be used. I get different opinions from both sides: Some want more restriction on them, other less. I don't like any "You can't drink that now"-approach. I would prefer more creative solutions, e.g. potions becomes less effective with every potion you drink. However, if you want a change to potions, make an other topic, please. I would like to keep the running and the potion issue separate. They may influence each other in battling but they are still matters of their own.

[Rincewind]

How about we fix the magic gems first before jumping to new proposals that make fighting even more complicated?

#same post - related topic