New types of punishments

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Raina Narethil
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New types of punishments

Post by Raina Narethil »

I feel we need to maybe come up with different types of punishments that can be used for when rules are broken that won't limit Rp but will not make it look like or feel like a revolving door.

We have the current.

These restrict rp. from what most who had them done say.

prison mine
banning from town
loss of citizenship

not restrictive.

fines. (( though can be so high the person fined doesn't have the time or feel like paying it))

Maybe we can come up with some new ones to see if we can't make it more fun for everyone and not be restrictive.

Example

Gladiator pit - for the worse offenders who are caught they will be held to fight for the amusement of the town

Slave labor - used to work on the town will be chained and bound so they can't escape till they meet their requirement for freedom once more. (( this will be rped so the person agreeing to Slave labor will have to agree to be chain and treated like a slave for the day or time needed to get free. ))

Stocks, outside jail, or confinement - The person would be lead out to an area in town and put on public display for people to see (( this would be rp, unless we make a non-escapable spot in town and gm places the person inside it. for a duration of time. Could be a hedge row in a small square or a bigger one to let the person move.))

These are just some I thought of maybe we can get more to make the game more fun for everyone.
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Kugar
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Re: New types of punishments

Post by Kugar »

Gladiator pit - for the worse offenders who are caught they will be held to fight for the amusement of the town
Brilliant idea, really like it. Would make the game more interesting for sure.
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Raina Narethil
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Re: New types of punishments

Post by Raina Narethil »

@ Kugar

Maybe you can come up with some idea's or a way to handle it.

I can think of maybe throwing the character in the arena and allowing creatures to be spawned if the person lives he gets a point toward going free if he gets ghosted he gets sent back to heal.The person can be given standard equipment and a potion of healing to use when he may need but he has to use it wisely.
Camarisa
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Re: New types of punishments

Post by Camarisa »

Raina Narethil wrote:@ Kugar

Maybe you can come up with some idea's or a way to handle it.

I can think of maybe throwing the character in the arena and allowing creatures to be spawned if the person lives he gets a point toward going free if he gets ghosted he gets sent back to heal.The person can be given standard equipment and a potion of healing to use when he may need but he has to use it wisely.
I love this... Would the creatures spawned be dependant on the chars level, their crime, or the most recently defeated beast? Or would it just be a point based system - Billy needs 20 points to go free and can get them by killing whatever he wants in the arena as long as the total is 20?

If this is for the town amusement, would there be a set date and time for this, with the criminal essentially roaming freely before and after?
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Jupiter
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Re: New types of punishments

Post by Jupiter »

Raina Narethil wrote:Slave labor - used to work on the town will be chained and bound so they can't escape till they meet their requirement for freedom once more. (( this will be rped so the person agreeing to Slave labor will have to agree to be chain and treated like a slave for the day or time needed to get free. ))
Most of the work will probably require you to leave the the town (e.g. collecting resoruces). I am not sure if forcing someone to stay in town is a good idea. However, slave labor is as such a good idea. I would propose an NPC to whom you have to give resources. As long as you are still in the "slave state" you might be unable to get benefits other cititzens get, for example magical gems. It would also be possible to ban them automaticcally when failing to deliver resources in a give amount of time.
We can have various forms of slave work and the gouverment can decide in each case what to use.
Teflon
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Re: New types of punishments

Post by Teflon »

Partial/light ban:
In addition to the total town ban, a limitation of the ban to some areas of a town instead of the whole town. In Galmair's case, these Galmairan chars could only enter the underground of Galmair via a secret entrance, which only they could use.
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Mephistopheles
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Re: New types of punishments

Post by Mephistopheles »

Teflon wrote:Partial/light ban:
In addition to the total town ban, a limitation of the ban to some areas of a town instead of the whole town. In Galmair's case, these Galmairan chars could only enter the underground of Galmair via a secret entrance, which only they could use.

Can we add alchemist npcs in those areas please? And magic gem smith!!
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Rincewind
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Re: New types of punishments

Post by Rincewind »

Give Galmair the shadowy image back we began with.

Teflon go for it! Galmair underground should be a place of dark figures. I want an npc who can 'smuggle' outlaws down there. And one who keeps them from the surface.
(Do you have to limit this to banned Galmairians only?)

Maybe Ronagan allows his followers to travel between his temple in the wild and the one in town? Maybe the Don smells profit, and sells passage. Or collects a fee via script when they leave again?

It is important to me that Galmairs officials create an environment profitable for Ronagan related Charackters too (they do very well on Narguns and Irmormoms aspects ;-)). If the council fails to do so, at least the Don should try to cash in with those. These people are precious to have within your society(rather than also get targeted), especially when the rival fractions strictly refuse any relation to those. They got their Paladins and those got the mages... what did Galmair got? We was supposed to have Spies, Thieves and assassins.

The Don backed up 'his' Criminals more than once, but lately he is backing up the glamerous image of Galmair, wich leaded to the conflict Galmair had with the free man. He would end up with far more profit if he chooses to represent both sides of the coin.


#Underground-without-law-ftw


+ Mephy is right, Outlaws need a way to access mandatory NPCs which are needed to play the game. The fact that they don't get magic gems monthly, increases the suffering and pain for Outlaws more than enough.
Fooser
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Re: New types of punishments

Post by Fooser »

Rincewind wrote:Galmair underground should be a place of dark figures. I want an npc who can 'smuggle' outlaws down there. And one who keeps them from the surface.
You're missing the important question: Is any of this conducive to successfully raising small children? It doesn't seem so, the entire underground should go, it's unsanitary and attracts seedy elements.
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Rincewind
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Re: New types of punishments

Post by Rincewind »

... 'split' galmair. Between those who want to grow wealth or imaginary kids and those who want dark RP in the shadows.
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Kamilar
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Re: New types of punishments

Post by Kamilar »

I got sucked into the forums while holding Mephy's hand but this topic really caught my eye. Funneling players into ever narrower character concepts is damaging to the creativity needed to support a concept like Illarion. This heavy focus of players seeking power over other players, trying control their behavior and searching out new ways to punish them and restrict their RP choices says nothing good about the game or the people who play it. If players could instead use that energy to look at their own RP, it would add a lot of interest and depth to the game.
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Karrock
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Re: New types of punishments

Post by Karrock »

Yeah it's right new types of punishments when there does not exist any form of town for "evil" and "bad" characters will destroy this game completely.
Because of this game is boring and lacks players. There also does not exist way to hide self from punish. When "rulers" decide your guilt you have no way to defend. Attacking others always ends with failure of bad/evil char even if he won fight. And there exist no real option for those who leave towns in my opinion. This proposal only crush game more. Players quit game because of exalting "good" characters above neutral or bad/evil ones. And notice this is only game if someone is playing "bad" character it doesn't mean he would do same wrong things in real life.
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Tyan Masines
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Re: New types of punishments

Post by Tyan Masines »

Teflon wrote:Partial/light ban:
In addition to the total town ban, a limitation of the ban to some areas of a town instead of the whole town. In Galmair's case, these Galmairan chars could only enter the underground of Galmair via a secret entrance, which only they could use.
This is a grand idea. All in all, the "safe areas" should be smaller. Another possibility (I am pretty sure this can't be implemented technically, though), would be areas where you simply can not ctrl+click player characters. Or where your weapons get unequipped, at least, without the possibility to equip them back.

This way, we could have safe areas without PK. It would not rob "banned" people of their ability to roleplay, but it would protect peaceful characters from getting killed inside the towns.
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Uhuru
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Re: New types of punishments

Post by Uhuru »

Tyan Masines wrote:
Teflon wrote:Partial/light ban:
In addition to the total town ban, a limitation of the ban to some areas of a town instead of the whole town. In Galmair's case, these Galmairan chars could only enter the underground of Galmair via a secret entrance, which only they could use.
This is a grand idea. All in all, the "safe areas" should be smaller. Another possibility (I am pretty sure this can't be implemented technically, though), would be areas where you simply can not ctrl+click player characters. Or where your weapons get unequipped, at least, without the possibility to equip them back.

This way, we could have safe areas without PK. It would not rob "banned" people of their ability to roleplay, but it would protect peaceful characters from getting killed inside the towns.
Actually, I wanted the Altar of the Five to be a PvP free zone when we updated it. I like that idea for different altar areas, but especially that one.
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Kamilar
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Re: New types of punishments

Post by Kamilar »

Pre-VBU, when the development team was fielding ideas for New Illarion, I proposed a PvP-free zone. The response was an immediate and definite 'no' supported by the concept that Illarion is a PvP game. Period. The concept of a safe-zone has been proposed several times since then and has always been rejected.

I'm wondering what's changed. I'm also wondering about the RP in the safe-zone. From my experience with the town bans, the OOC knowledge of the engine ban has an undesirable effect on the RP. I foresee more of the same in an engine-driven safe-zone. I see it as just another place for players to bully one another in ever new and frustrating ways. If the RP is poor in the PvP zone, why should taking away PvP improve it? Who is really to benefit?

Personally, I think the real problem is a fundamental disagreement on what constitutes fun, quality RP and an equally fundamental disagreement on what constitutes valid character motivation. I don't think the engine mechanics exist that can bridge that divide.

I think an honest discussion about roleplay would be much more productive than more threads justifying giving some players dominion over others.
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Achae Eanstray
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Re: New types of punishments

Post by Achae Eanstray »

Just inserting this as a FYI regarding the discussion of roleplay, this thread was begun awhile ago to encompass questions about roleplay, all aspects including evil versus good. It got lost when unstickied but may still have some good advise. Feel free to add to it.

http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... t=Roleplay
Teflon
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Re: New types of punishments

Post by Teflon »

To throw some ideas in, which could be discussed. I could imagine shrines and altars as such areas but also that attacking a citizen close to a citizen-NPC has a huge chance to end up in the prison mine immediately, which they could leave of probation after some little mining. I can't repeat myself often enough how I dislike how NPCs are ignored IG.
Kamilar wrote:Personally, I think the real problem is a fundamental disagreement on what constitutes fun, quality RP and an equally fundamental disagreement on what constitutes valid character motivation. I don't think the engine mechanics exist that can bridge that divide.

I think an honest discussion about roleplay would be much more productive than more threads justifying giving some players dominion over others.
Might be that it is more productive, but punishment has been an issue since ever and should be addressed. Just because we discuss one topic right now, doesn't mean we can't discuss another one. If you see such urgent need to discuss roleplay as such, I don't see why you don't just start such discussion in another thread or even better use Achae's linked thread?! There is really no need to tell other people what they should discuss. Everyone can discuss whatever they want as long as it is constructive and respectful to each other.
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Kamilar
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Re: New types of punishments

Post by Kamilar »

I'm not telling anyone what to discuss. I'm stating my personal opinions. I'm so glad to read that's welcome here. I might have doubted it otherwise.
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Vern Kron
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Re: New types of punishments

Post by Vern Kron »

Teflon wrote:To throw some ideas in, which could be discussed. I could imagine shrines and altars as such areas but also that attacking a citizen close to a citizen-NPC has a huge chance to end up in the prison mine immediately, which they could leave of probation after some little mining. I can't repeat myself often enough how I dislike how NPCs are ignored IG.
The only draw back to that is the issue of training, and new players. The new player thing could be fixed if there is a 'new player status' that a character is under that prevents them from being immediately warped via npc to the prison mine, but sometimes people train or fight within view of npc's. We are trying to add more and more of those things, so I could see that becoming a problem quickly in the future.
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