Death but not Really (Questing)

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Kraex
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Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Kraex »

I have no idea if this topic has even been brought up, but I got to thinking "holy ****" the possibilities. So I kept thinking about people wanting conflict, but all the major players that have really taken this bull by the horns have crashed and burned for the most part. Except for the most brave POs who go into the game and skill their character for the purpose of being an antagonist they end up largely alone. Sorry but I love the faction system too much not to have my main skilled character support it fully.

I purpose we as POs get a 'Quest' character slot. The function and purpose of this character is to support a specific questline that can be generated by POs or GMs. Once that plotline is over the character IG is essentially killed and can be regenerated as another character without the fear of losing skills.

Perceived benefits:
  • The ability to create large scale PvP battles.
  • Quickly and easily switch to a new plotline after the old dies(e.g. Cultist group taints Runewick, next month orc hordes raid Cadomyr)
  • Mass involvement from POs that would otherwise be uninterested.
  • Casual gamers involvement in the game.
  • Free up GM leadership with dramatic player led Questlines and lessen the grunt work of individually creating quest characters and then tracking/deleting them afterward.
  • Foreseen dramatic increase of online players to participate/lead/oppose new Questlines.
  • If Quest characters inventory could be erased after each event this would give IG crafters a bump in revenue if quest characters had to buy from them.
  • Guilds/Factions could pay for mercenaries, soldiers, mages, priests, etc... to join and help with a plot.
Perceived Roadblocks:
  • Engine/Account support and management
  • Management of these quest characters to only be engaged with the 'current' plot.
  • Insuring that the sides are balanced during times of conflict.
  • OOC Ground rules to avoid breaking the IG environment.
Proposed rules for the character
  • 1 PK and your character is permanently dead, "Rezzed to the you got clouded, better luck next time prison. You must wait till the next plot to partake.
  • Skills still have to be earned over time.
  • New Faction tag for Quest characters.
  • Those who do not play along, use excessive force on the IG community, divert from their questline will have their quest character banned.

Maybe I am crazy what do you all think?
Last edited by Kraex on Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Azure Lynch
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Azure Lynch »

I'm crazy enough to like this idea
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Karrock
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Karrock »

Before I write something about this idea I must to point that Galmair should be "bad" faction. Maybe not "evil" but "bad". Those "good" characters should be moved to other towns. I can't imagine "ganster" town ruled by Don where every crime is abandon and forbiden. Currently we have three "good" towns.
And most "bad" is Runewick (thanks gods there is a place for "bad"/"evil" characters) This is a problem.

Next the idea: Making with following month new char who goal is only make a conflict and die would make this game too much hack'n'slash. And would become boring and disturbing. Players should have resposibility how they play and character should be (in my opinion) member of community. Besides you can make now "bad"/"evil" alternative char or you can ask GMs if you can play Quest Char who dies on end. You can play it together with other players who are interested.

I personally gather "bad"/"evil" characters what I have announced in my locked topic.

http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... =1&t=40624

As I have wrote there. There punishment of permaban from towns will be less by possibility of collect needed stuff or pick tasks and earning money.
IG has rised new guild. But can pass months before something will happen.
(Please only don't bother my char with questions).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUseXvL1xk8
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Lia
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Lia »

The idea as such I find , viewed from another perspective , not necessarily bad .

But event / quest characters you can also use a Gm create .
Depending on whether high skill is really needed.

And as for the tolerable issue with the Ban of cities .
Then have the " Bad - guys " get in line just smarter.


ps: Runewick is the "bad" Town? Never xD
Runewick has the bearers. You know they are the good guys. Maybe not kindly but good. :P
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Alyssa El'anir
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Alyssa El'anir »

Not sure we need a new faction list for them. We already have Runewick for the bad guys.. err I mean outlaws. :D

Sounds like a good enough idea though if the GMs are willing to take the responsibility of managing these players properly so it isn't abused.
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GolfLima
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by GolfLima »

Lia wrote:Runewick has the bearers. You know they are the good guys. Maybe not kindly but good.
:arrow: are you sure?
Karrock wrote:Before I write something about this idea I must to point that Galmair should be "bad" faction. Maybe not "evil" but "bad". Those "good" characters should be moved to other towns.
:arrow: Why should Galmair the "bad" town?
keep in mind: there are a lot of charakters and they have to change their home
1) now rank in the new town
2) may be no flat
3) things at the depot
AND
4) some charakters are bounded to the town - that will be killed
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Kamilar
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Kamilar »

I like the idea of recycling the bad guy with a new skin. That takes away the dread of skilling a character that would otherwise be deleted. I also like the idea of a PvP loss time-out but I would make that 3 losses rather than a single one. I'd also make the time-out 24 hours or until midnight server time, something like that, rather than for the rest of the event. That time-out should prevent the hack n' slash that Karrock fears.

I'll skip over the discussion about Runewick and mafia because I didn't understand it and it seems to go off-topic but I don't agree with moving characters around based on alignment. People should be free to go where they want to pursue whatever it is they're doing with their characters and often times alignment is a matter of perspective anyway. I also see no need to create a new faction for this. That seems to overly complicate it and I'm guessing these aren't meant to be chummy characters trying to trade for gems and chatting around the depot anyway.

Good idea. :D
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Karrock
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Karrock »

GolfLima wrote:
Karrock wrote:Before I write something about this idea I must to point that Galmair should be "bad" faction. Maybe not "evil" but "bad". Those "good" characters should be moved to other towns.
:arrow: Why should Galmair the "bad" town?
When I was imagining after VBU Galmair ruled by mafia Don I seen in my mind this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6PDcBhODqo

Idea that only money is important there is broken. Galmair is most "good" town already.

EDIT: To below: Sending to Cherga is weak try to revenge (for me is lame). This has sense only in battles (where is too many opponents to be sure that fallen enemy will not revenge)). Winning in fights should be RP pleasure.

There is different between "bad"/"evil"/"villain" what once someone wrote.
"Villains" are characters for special ocasions.
Last edited by Karrock on Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Lia
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Lia »

Sure it has advantage if you do not have skillen only a bad guy .
BUT

What if the player his character then do not want to die ?
What about the new characters ?

I doubt that it is good if someone has a new character or a new player , and is then killed by any overpower Bad guy .
As a new player . Or as player with a new character . Or as a player with a "non - fighter character it would not find funny at time to be killed .


Then, if something should be exclusively for events and with the awareness that the Bay - Guy must die at the end of the event at the latest .


I had ever the idea that if a player can die his character , his new character gets the skills of the dead character .
But from GM and players I got the feedback , that would not be good , because there would be any other time only full skill characters .


I hope it can be unterstand what i mean. My englisch is not the best.
Kraex
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Kraex »

The reason I am suggesting that they be marked as a different faction is to avoid throwing the tax/gem system off. I would not want these characters to have actual rank in a town, RP ties to a town (okay) but they 'HAVE' to be tied to a Questline. I am not really sure how that could be accomplished engine wise other than having a bunch of 'Outlaws' on the online list.

@ Lia: As for an Uber bad guy killing your crafter/peaceful character, newbs, and otherwise. First there are rules against that kind of aggressive RP with newbs. Second the suggested quest characters will have to be skilled by a player and 'have' to be part of the 'Quest'. If those rules are broken I would say a ban would need to be put into place. This is supposed to be for the 'fun' of the game and 'depth' of the game.

I am going to make an update to my original post to address Lia's concerns and add some more key points I think this propose can address/help:
  • Casual gamers involvement in the game. At any time they can use their Quest character to join a plot that is taking place that week or month. E.G. switch their character to an orc and join the horde to invade a faction. Join the crafters guild that comes from Albar to share their crafted exotic wares. Join the traveling circus that arrives at the Hemptie to bring entertainment to the lands of Illarion from afar. A mass escape of slaves flee the desert while slavers try and hunt them down.
  • Free up GM leadership with dramatic player led Questlines and lessen the grunt work of individually creating quest characters and then tracking them afterward.
  • Foreseen dramatic increase of online players to participate/lead/oppose new Questlines.
  • If Quest characters inventory could be erased after each event this would give IG crafters a bump in revenue if quest characters had to buy from them.
  • Guilds/Factions could pay for mercenaries, soldiers, mages, priests, etc... to join and help with a plot.
^^^ Back to the Original Post/Proposal ^^^
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Karrock
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Karrock »

I'm still against. We have too low player data base for such a thing. Better erase magical gems system or add nectie inn in this system (because it's highly against characters who live there and forces everyone to "good". Taxes were never be a problem for me. I can pay even I don't get anything.)
And I'm against that you want to make "bad"/"evil" a rp for special occasions.
Just note that if you have an idea you can gather group and ask GMs if they like such an idea for "chars for special event".
Kraex
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Kraex »

Karrock I can tell you from experience that GMs have a lot on their plate. To create, coordinate, skill advance, equip, monitor, delete temporary characters for a questline is an involved process. I am again, not saying, that these characters 'have' to be bad guys, but it does afford the opportunity for people that would not otherwise be interested in playing a bad guy type character the opportunity to do so freely. The engine mechanics to maintain and facilitate this proposal may not even be possible but the idea that a GM or player character can on a dime start a Quest and have access to characters that could fit that RP has endless opportunities.

I am sorry if I insinuated that bad/evil is only for special occasions. My proposal is targeted for augmenting the game with characters that can fit a variety of molds/RPs. So for instance if you did make up your own crew of antagonists as an IG force but you wanted a little muscle to achieve a certain goal in comes a quest character that could actually be bought IG or authorized by a GM for a set duration or plot.
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Kamilar
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Kamilar »

Personally, I'd favor placing all these characters as outlaws since it fits with the mechanics already in place. It seems like that would be much simpler and would match this concept well enough.

I think it's worth at least trying the idea out. Players that can't handle the responsibility can have the privilege removed.

With regards to "good/bad" characters, I think that could be an option either way with this concept. That temporary rotating character could have one alignment during one episode and switch sides for the next one. I think that's an exciting prospect for characters that are meant to be short term. The only problem I foresee is someone getting attached to their character and wanting to keep it long term. I think we'd need a contingency plan for that.
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Q-wert
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Q-wert »

Provocative over the top question:
If someone had connections to an online gaming community that can mobilize some number of players for a short time, say one of his buddies is an active commander in Goonswarm, could and should such a system allow that person to temporarily gain an army of mercenaries for a personal player plot (say, wage war to enforce something) of his character?

Or in short: How does one prevent such a system to be abused ooc-ly by player cliques? Or should such be accepted in favour of game exposure?
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Alyssa El'anir
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Alyssa El'anir »

Q-wert wrote: Or in short: How does one prevent such a system to be abused ooc-ly by player cliques?
Account age limitation, I would say.

Say.. Minimum account age of 1-2 years should be enough that people would have enough of a grasp on the game to play a villain to some degree without abusing it?
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Kamilar
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Kamilar »

What's to stop people from doing that now? I don't see how adding this feature or restricting it would prevent an abuse like you're suggesting.
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Q-wert
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Q-wert »

What's to stop people from doing that now? I don't see how adding this feature or restricting it would prevent an abuse like you're suggesting.
Gm's are to stop them with things as they are now. Right now quest characters are single handedly handed out by gm's for very specific quest purposes and deleted afterwards. A sudden wave of requested quest characters with stats and equip from freshly created accounts simply would not be approved.
Last edited by Q-wert on Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kamilar
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Kamilar »

The way I understand this proposal, the skills would start at zero and have to be trained up like any other character. These aren't characters that are going to have skills handed to them. The difference between these characters and the others in the account is that they wouldn't have to be scrubbed and the PO start over for every single event.
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Kugar
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Kugar »

I really like this idea. Reminds me of what another game that I played did. That one was a zombie apocalypse, though. A whole new story would happen after the current story was finished and the players would get new survivors that would start in a different place on the map, branch off and have the ability to build shelters for themselves and whatever until the army or rescue arrived, with different results, obviously. Providing they stayed alive. The GMs were in charge of the storyline. It was perma death. Maybe we should have perma death for these chars, too?

Anyway, here are some of my thoughts:
Perceived Roadblocks:

Engine/Account support and management
-Gm created temp accounts that are given (name/password) to player after application is accepted.
Management of these quest characters to only be engaged with the 'current' plot.
-Gm deletes temporary account after the quest.
Insuring that the sides are balanced during times of conflict.
-Those who handle the applications could take on the responsibility of assigning the side the PO applicant will be on if one side is too crowded.
OOC Ground rules to avoid breaking the IG environment.
-Common sense, report rule breaks.
Galmair is most "good" town already.
-True and annoying.
I doubt that it is good if someone has a new character or a new player , and is then killed by any overpower Bad guy .
-Non troll players will usually not attack new players. Quest chars could be accepted on a simple and easy application and if the PO uses the character to do something like this their application could get refused next time and until they stop their bullshit. We can only wrap people in cotton wool so much without taking away everyone else's freedom and creativity.
I'm still against. We have too low player data base for such a thing.
-This will increase the player count, obviously. The whole idea is that their will be new scenarios and plotlines that can allow for new characters. Not everything has to involve the towns and their citizens with their boring lives, afterall.
And I'm against that you want to make "bad"/"evil" a rp for special occasions.
-It will never happen otherwise. Not in a million years. Skilling up is time consuming and so is trying to gem your character up enough to be acceptable as a fighter. I sincerely doubt that unless we have something like this going on, new players will stick around long enough to want to skill up a permanent character. They' might just leave?
Just note that if you have an idea you can gather group and ask GMs if they like such an idea for "chars for special event".
-This idea just makes the whole thing easier. Why not make things easier?
How does one prevent such a system to be abused ooc-ly by player cliques? Or should such be accepted in favour of game exposure?
-1 character per player all serving to the overall object set by the gms, or the player who created the quest, for either side (2 or more) of the storyline. Gms should only accept a player storyline if it is reasonable and promotes cooperation. Not something ridiculous. If you wanted to gain an army of mercenaries then the players on the other side should be taken into consideration and have the ability to band together and create an army themselves in the face of oppression.

Two cents.
Kraex
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Kraex »

@ Q-Wert: So, to this end other POs in private chats have suggested a few different processes to get this 'Quest-Character' slot and how to keep it from being abused, here are my thoughts and others:
  • Application Process: IMO that could be a socially engineered method and a long drawn out process.
  • IG Merit: Proven RPers IG can receive the slot through healthy contribution to the game.
  • Trust: Give the slots until the player proves they can't handle it, then ban.
  • Start slow: The first go needs to definitely be a pilot process where only 20 or so are created. Test the impact in a small environment and pull the plug if it goes sideways.
  • Maturation: Players still have to 'earn' the skill they gain and the only way to do this is to be a part of a Questline. If you are not you are kicked back to a prison and risk losing your account. Examples I have in mind for the process:
    • GM requests 10 quest characters to help him with a plot. Early on I would say GMs and players use these quest characters as strictly support for a Faction event (E.G. training the militia of Galmair) Then the Galmair faction leaders have a mock war games and split the quest characters up evenly.
    • Noble House IG in Cadomyr is assigned a young noble (Quest Character) to train to be a knight for his father has the ear of the Queen's chancellor.
    • The archmage calls in farmers (Quest Characters) from Pennymill to assist in an agricultural project.
Slightly
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Re: Death but not Really (Questing)

Post by Slightly »

Dear players,

There have been several discussions about quest characters and playing villains lately. Currently quest characters form part of a single quest and serve to make this quest more interesting for anyone participating in it. Because a quest character is part of a specific story line, a quest character will have to stick within a set of limitations related to the quest. When the quest or quest series is over the quest character most likely will be deleted again.

The quest can be either a player quest supported by the GM team, or a quest created by a Gamemaster. In the case of player quests, the quest characters will be discussed as a part of the required support from the GM team. For official quests the Gamemasters either will ask players whose characters are not considered to be involved in the quest directly or do an open call about looking for players to play some quest characters (most recently orcs).

Whilst the suggested system is currently not feasible due to the high GM maintenance requirement and current development priorities, it will be discussed for inclusion in later developmental milestones. That said, If you do have specific ideas where quest characters would have a valid role and could bring excitement to the game please do suggest them as we are keen to support as many player quests as possible.

All the best
Silverwing and Slightly
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