Items specific to races

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Achae Eanstray
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Items specific to races

Post by Achae Eanstray »

In order to encourage races to be conscious they they ARE different and since there are no separate towns... I think items specific to the races would be nice. Items that another race couldn't or wouldn't use. This could be potions (would only heal one race), food that only one race could eat, maybe even weapons and armor or shields...we have them in name but everyone can use these items.

Are different languages planned again.. this is a good option also.

Suggestions? Ideas?
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Po Will
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Re: Items specific to races

Post by Po Will »

This, all of this!

I think Matron mentioned that Lizards could still eat raw fish, for food and the likes, I don't know what could be different for the more Human-like races, though an armour that fit Halflings and only would seem sensible, seeing how they're... well. Not exactly the biggest. Perhaps give the crafters an option like

" Create leather leggings

- Humanoid Orc, Human Elf
- Little person Dwarf or Halfling
- Lizard people

Would make sense, at least in my mind, making the crafting more immersive as well.
And I'm fully behind being able to mock long le... I mean, race language would be awesome again :D
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GolfLima
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Re: Items specific to races

Post by GolfLima »

we have

orc: orc helmet // orc axe
lizard: lizard armor
dwarfs: dwarvern armor // dwarvern state armor // magical dwarvern axe // dwarvern axe // dwarvern boots
elven: light elven armor // elven silversteel armor // elven state armor // elven silversteel boots // elven sword // elven rainbow sword // elven mage staff // elven short bow // elven composit long bow
halfling: halfling axe

:arrow: but all these things can be used by all races
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Po Will
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Re: Items specific to races

Post by Po Will »

Always found it odd that if an Orc decided to give Sere a helmet, it would fit on his head...

Though, perhaps we could link my suggestion to stat changes? If not making them unwearable to each race, have them affect the races stats. So, if I were to wear a Humans clothes, I'd get minus ten to my agility for running in giant pants, if a Human wore a Dwarfs shirt, minus whatever to whatever due to it being tiny. That sort of thing.
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Q-wert
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Re: Items specific to races

Post by Q-wert »

I hope it to be okay to dump a quote from one of the messages I had from Estralis in regards of the topic for giving Tanora-Lizards acess to the paladin- and priestlike magic classes:
Estralis wrote:Wir stellen bei der Entwicklung von Illarion immer wieder fest, dass Ausnahmen und Sonderbehandlungen, auch wenn gut gemeint, eine starke Fehlerquelle sind. Viele Bugs, die in letzter Zeit neu aufgetreten sind, haben ihren Ursprung in irgendwelchen Ausnahmebetrachtungen oder Sonderskripts (siehe zuletzt Bäume fällen). Auch erfordern diese Ausnahmen deutlich mehr Aufwand in der Erstellung neuer Features und deren Wartung. Wir versuchen sie also zu vermeiden, vor allem, wenn sie keinen echten Vorteil bieten. Extrawürste für einzelne Rassen sind so ein Beispiel.
In short, he said that special stuff for specific races is something that the dev team does its best to avoid, as specific exceptions in general are one of the major source of bugs in recent history of the game. Maybe a short clarification from the side of the developers might clear up misconceptions?
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Jupiter
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Re: Items specific to races

Post by Jupiter »

See http://illarion.org/mantis/view.php?id=10511

We want to bring perks for races back. Fishing for lizards without rods is such an example.
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Po Will
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Re: Items specific to races

Post by Po Will »

How about the opinion in regards to race languages making a come back? On a side note of that, do you reckon that mages will need to learn the ancient language as well? :)
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Jupiter
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Re: Items specific to races

Post by Jupiter »

Languages will probably come back one time. This requires som server and client support and is not regarded as highly important. So if it comes back, it is not to be expected to come back soon.
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Po Will
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Re: Items specific to races

Post by Po Will »

Bonnie, cheers for the response :)
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Estralis Seborian
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Re: Items specific to races

Post by Estralis Seborian »

Hello all,

I think there is the need to clarify some aspects. To start, I also would like to make the races more different, more distinct. My initial approach is to use the attributes; currently, every race is basically the same concerning attributes, the range differences are very low. My idea is that e.g. elves can get the highest intelligence, making them capable mages in future while orcs can have highest strength for the extra punch in fighting. But by no mean do I want to forbid an orc to learn magic, whatever stats there are. The orc might have less intelligence and his spells might be worse than an elf's spell on the same level, but the orc could still become a decent mage.

From my point of view, we don't achieve anything positive from strict limits. If we limit items or actions to certain races, we just lose some freedom but the best thing we can end up is a class oriented game. Illarion is class free, offering maximum freedom to the player and I do not want to see this undermined or changes.

Speaking about the racial items, I always understood the names as "a helmet like an orc would craft/like it" but not as "a helmet only for orcs". Likewise, I understood a serinjah sword to be made like a member of a serinjah tribe would forge it. But not as a weapon only a serinjah may use! We have plenty of these people/race names in items. I would absolutely not welcome a situation where only elves can use and craft all those elven items, as we'd have to add tons of such racial items for every race then - like a lizard sword or a halfling claymore... And what about albarian humans? We can remove the references to peoples/races if necessary. So a dwarven state armour would become a <cool name> state armour and the serinjah sword a <cool name> sword. I wouldn't mind this, but I do not intend to do this myself.

Speaking about racial perks, yes, I would love to see some. But please think about more than just one race and one action. Consider all races! And the perks should either be really cool and unique or generic boni that are not covered by skills or attributes. A proper brainstorming for perks is encouraged, but please don't think that "make a dwarf find more gold by mining" is innovative and unique. For now, I would prefer to see magic being implemented rather than claw fishing for lizards, night vision for dwarves, increased stomach capacity for halflings, tribal gathering drums for orcs and tree climbing for elves.

To explain the quoted PM a little, racial differences were just an example for "exceptions". In the past, we had to learn that the more "exceptions" we add to the game, the less reliable the "normal state" works. I want to see lovely details in the game, but those details should not require the same amount of code as the normal features and should be free of additional maintenance.

Estralis
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Po Will
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Re: Items specific to races

Post by Po Will »

I think there is the need to clarify some aspects. To start, I also would like to make the races more different, more distinct. My initial approach is to use the attributes; currently, every race is basically the same concerning attributes, the range differences are very low. My idea is that e.g. elves can get the highest intelligence, making them capable mages in future while orcs can have highest strength for the extra punch in fighting. But by no mean do I want to forbid an orc to learn magic, whatever stats there are. The orc might have less intelligence and his spells might be worse than an elf's spell on the same level, but the orc could still become a decent mage.
Aye, that seems the easiest way to approach racial differences, and the more logical. At no point for an example, should a Halfling with even the same amount of strength, take on an Orc in a boxing match. It would match what is written about the races as well.
From my point of view, we don't achieve anything positive from strict limits. If we limit items or actions to certain races, we just lose some freedom but the best thing we can end up is a class oriented game. Illarion is class free, offering maximum freedom to the player and I do not want to see this undermined or changes.
I don't think we should limit anything. That's a given, it's one of the things that makes Illarion so playable and enjoyable, so good move with that design in mind.
Speaking about the racial items, I always understood the names as "a helmet like an orc would craft/like it" but not as "a helmet only for orcs". Likewise, I understood a serinjah sword to be made like a member of a serinjah tribe would forge it. But not as a weapon only a serinjah may use! We have plenty of these people/race names in items. I would absolutely not welcome a situation where only elves can use and craft all those elven items, as we'd have to add tons of such racial items for every race then - like a lizard sword or a halfling claymore... And what about albarian humans? We can remove the references to peoples/races if necessary. So a dwarven state armour would become a <cool name> state armour and the serinjah sword a <cool name> sword. I wouldn't mind this, but I do not intend to do this myself.
Again, I would say we should outrightly limit items. Anyone should be able to wear an Orcs helmet, for example. The point I would raise, that if a Human were to give my Halfling a shirt, that the Human was just wearing, then it reasonably would suggest it wouldn't fit my Halfling. If it were set to make races need items made for them, that would fit them, it would give cause to going to crafters, tailors and the likes a lot more. Cause more interaction when seeking those types of goods and the likes.
Speaking about racial perks, yes, I would love to see some. But please think about more than just one race and one action. Consider all races! And the perks should either be really cool and unique or generic boni that are not covered by skills or attributes. A proper brainstorming for perks is encouraged, but please don't think that "make a dwarf find more gold by mining" is innovative and unique. For now, I would prefer to see magic being implemented rather than claw fishing for lizards, night vision for dwarves, increased stomach capacity for halflings, tribal gathering drums for orcs and tree climbing for elves.
Off the top of my head.

Orcs - eat raw meat.
Lizards - Fish with their hands and eat the raw fish.
Elves - Naturally move faster and swifter.
Dwarfs - More ore when mining, or more gems - not sure if there's code that could make this possible though -
Halflings... Um - Will come back to the Halfling one later :lol:
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Nitram
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Re: Items specific to races

Post by Nitram »

Surely we could give every item upon creation (or buying) a tag of the race it is made for. So every race is able to wear every item provided it was made for them (or their race group or something).

BUT: Such a restriction will only confuse (specially the new) players and I don't think it adds a lot to the game. Also it is quiet a task to get something like this working properly. After all that is what we got that "roleplay" stuff for. If your halfling receives a shirt that you think is to large, nothing stops you from RPing and demanding a fitting one. :wink:

Nitram
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Po Will
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Re: Items specific to races

Post by Po Will »

Well, the idea more comes down to trying to get people to roleplay together. Easy enough to roleplay the point, no problem there, but the more interaction in game, all the better! :D
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