Citizen Roll

[Ufedhin]

I would like to see a citizen roll in the towns census offices that record all tax paying citizens of each town. Each town has this building and npc yet it is not as detailed as it could be, a tax payer roll with town rank of the individual could be available on the book shelves in the office and kept up to date by the clerk .

I was informed (don't ask me by whom I have long forgotten) some time back when the online list became active to treat it as the towns citizen roll found in the census office, and yet now I find that statement dubious .After being challenged about my knowledge of a players residence I now wonder if indeed that is the correct way to play it. While it does make sense it is actually occ knowledge.

Ufedhin.

[Achae Eanstray]

I have always considered the online list as ooc (and been told this since joining) due to in the past we had some elect not to even be shown and taking their word for where they are from. I would consider in game a character can elect to lie where they are from so wouldn't like a general roll and citizen's list.

Some can deny they are on this so called register but others will just assume they are from so and so town and never even ask or give them an opportunity to deny. It is much easier RP creatively to simply not have the list rather then have an engine based list difficult to do much with.


Just my 2 cents.

[Djironnyma]

While the Online list is indeed OOC it makes on the other hand no use that the town or specially the towns authority doesnt know who is a listed citizens / who pay taxes. AFAIK one of our devs is working on a a IG solution, which gives at least the towns administration these informations. If they did publish these informations or not is an IG matter to discuss with them.

Edit: i mean no use not to use -,-

[Ufedhin]

While the Online list is indeed OOC it makes on the other hand to use that the town or specially the towns authority doesnt know who is a listed citizens / who pay taxes. AFAIK one of our devs is working on a a IG solution, which gives at least the towns administration these informations. If they did publish these informations or not is an IG matter to discuss with them.

This is good news I do like the idea of a town tax payer roll . The citizen tax roll of medieval towns is a vital part of the feudal bureaucracy of the times . I know realism is a dirty word in Illarion theses days ,but it is the best bench mark we have to build working ideas that have a consistency or commonality.

[Uhuru]

Town authorities is one thing, but general population and open to any and all who wander in and out of a town is quite another.

For instance, in Galmair, the Don, the hands, and the Chancellors would perhaps have access to such a list, but nobody else. I would even question the Chancellors as some of them have been highly volatile. (Perhaps even including Uhuru.)

To me, too many people are using the online list and the OOC information held there and taking it into the game. Someone, who moves, should get to disclose this to people of their own choosing and in their own way. And, town authorities need to know who is moving in and out, what taxes to expect, and to have the ability to watch for spies. Making this open information in game would take away people's ability to be the owner of their own information to a certain extent.

I, for one, like and dislike that we can no longer hide our status on the online list. That it now shows where characters are citizens is actually not a good thing really, however, it does let people know where they might find RP. If we had more players, we could just show 12 in Cadomyr and 15 in Galmair, just a total count and not a name showing list of who is in which town. Ah, dare to dream.

[Matron]

I have seen a lot of OOC-abuse in my player-/GM-career *show-off* and I have learned to tolerate it to a certain degree.

Sine the VBU for example my chars have moved several times themselves (and were either adressed by others inquiring about it or people pretended to not know and feigned surprise upon finding out).
I was fine with either since I never tried to keep it secret.

As for the online list I do not like to consider it IG-knowledge per se but I see how it might be hard for some to not use the information IG (consciously or sub-consciously). Thus I like to think there is a sort of "rumor" among the NPCs when people do move/are online. The playerbase is too small to convey rumors properly (I do miss the rumor-board) but the notary has to know about a char's moving and so might an NPC standing outside the building or NPCs have seen a char in town and talk about his presence there. That's a convenient/legit excuse/reason to run around towns to find someone or talk about how someone moved to another town.

Thinking of it that way I myself can cope with OOC-abuse and do apologize if I ever happen to adress someone about something like that although it is not at all desired.

[Kira]

If we were to revert to the online list showing names by races, instead of towns, or simply having a list of online players without listing towns/races, we would avoid the subconscious part of the ooc-abuse that happens. Perhaps this would be a valid solution once this system in game is put in place, that Dji was talking about.

[Q-wert]

I do find the Online List a most useful tool. One that I'd hate to see removed.

The first thing I do (judging from the hit-humbers of the webpage, I am not the only one) before going online is to have a look on that list. It helps me determine where my character should go and who is there to play with. Its not like he would do anything he would not have done anyways, but as nobody plays 24/7 it does save countless fruitless visits to other places and even missing persons in the hometown. All characters that 'would' have been found if they had a regular live not limited to short online bursts and lengthy disappearances into nothingness.

So if someone is to organize some one event or another on a regular basis. Ones that requires the coordination of a hand full of people, all playing at somewhat different times, using different means of ooc-communication (or none at all). How is that person supposed to have their character find all the other ones? By forum posts? (I don't know about you guys, but I need at least 30 Minutes for every official post to give them proper in character form.) By sending pms (that one can only hold 100 at a time, which is barely enough for regular correspondence and communication with gms)? Hitting chat/Teampspeak (which some people won't be found on, for various reaons. 'Not wanting to be found', barely ever being one of them)? Or even staying all in character and missing all the other people that 'shoud', in therory, be there?

All alternative options do sound like more work to me than need to be.

[GolfLima]

Kann mir bitte jemand einmal den Sinn dieser Diskussion mitteilen?
Danke.

[Djironnyma]

Es geht um die möglichkeit für alle oder bestimmte charaktäre(explizieht stadtführungen) ingame Bürgerlisten ab zu rufen / ein zu sehen.

[maryday]

Stadtfuehrungen ja.

Fuer den Gebrauch durch Chars kann ich nur auf bereits erbrachte Vorschlaege z.Thema "billboard" verweisen.
((Hm. Heute kam ich seit Monaten auf die Idee mal wieder nachzusehen, wie es riahtala ergangen ist.
Ich weis`allerdings nicht (mehr), ob die Buergerlisten dort von POs eingesehen werden konnten (koennen).))

Andererseits waere es auch denkbar, Triggerfelder der Staedte zu benutzen um irgendwo Infos abzubilden mit dem Inhalt:

"Es halten sich n Charaktaere im Stadtgebiet von Galmair auf."
"Es halten sich n Charaktaere im Stadtgebiet von Runewick auf."
"Es halten sich n Charaktaere in der Wildniss Nord-Nordwestlich der Tuepfelgeiereierbruchhoehle auf."

- - - - - - - - - - -

For town leadership, sure.
For use of chars i may point out to proposals concerning "billboard".
Furthermore i propose to use triggerfields of towns to display numbers of chars in a certain area.

"There are n characters present in Galmair."
"There are n characters present in Runewick."