Far to much lighting every where

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Post by Ufedhin » Sat May 09, 2015 1:12 am

Far to much lighting every where

I would like to see less permanent light fixtures especially in the out of way places like mines, out of the way buildings , camp sites etc . Why cant the torch holders and oil lamps be of the sort that requires refuelling? This would make these items of some value again , who bothers to use them now ? no one .
Darkness adds an element of interest and excitement to the game ,yet this obsession with every place being illuminated with permanent lights is rather dull.
I for one like the dark , dark places for dark thoughts and deeds .
It is no hardship at all to carry a few torches and oil flasks to light these fixtures when needed or desired.
While I am well aware that the easy street crowd now holds sway, I would ask this on behalf of us few whom like things to be inconvenient and awkward at times ,for the sake of a little variation.

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Post by Mephistopheles » Sat May 09, 2015 1:37 am

Re: Far to much lighting every where

+1

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Post by Vern Kron » Sat May 09, 2015 2:15 am

Re: Far to much lighting every where

I would very much disagree to this. (I even have characters who sell lighting goods). Mainly, the game being nearly pitch black in anywhere beyond a 3 tile circle around your character is not fun.

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Post by Ufedhin » Sat May 09, 2015 2:54 am

Re: Far to much lighting every where

Vern Kron wrote:I would very much disagree to this. (I even have characters who sell lighting goods). Mainly, the game being nearly pitch black in anywhere beyond a 3 tile circle around your character is not fun.

Maybe we can add white canes to carpentry skills ,are your serious ? even in the darkest of dungeons you don't need lighting to see :?

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Post by Uhuru » Sat May 09, 2015 3:56 am

Re: Far to much lighting every where

Ufedhin wrote:
Vern Kron wrote:I would very much disagree to this. (I even have characters who sell lighting goods). Mainly, the game being nearly pitch black in anywhere beyond a 3 tile circle around your character is not fun.

Maybe we can add white canes to carpentry skills ,are your serious ? even in the darkest of dungeons you don't need lighting to see :?
Actually, that isn't true. Different computers see light in the game differently. Dark for me is pitch black and can't see at all. But doesn't mean I like things lit at all times everywhere I go. My characters do tend to carry lighting with them because of this. Just saying, different computers see things differently. :)

Some of the lighting in one of my newest dungeons is pitch black, no light at all to some fantastical light you wouldn't believe. Took my breath away. The use of light can be quite dramatic if used properly.

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Post by Achae Eanstray » Sat May 09, 2015 4:08 am

Re: Far to much lighting every where

I actually like the mystery of the darker areas however agree.. shouldn't have it too light. My chars (all of them) carry light with them at all time and use when needed since the dark is really pitch black. Subtle lighting is fine but I agree places like mines might be nicer with some scary unlit corners.

A nice compromise would be good?

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Sat May 09, 2015 7:11 am

Re: Far to much lighting every where

Actually, I think there are enough dark areas in the game for everyone who prefers to lurk in dark corners. The public areas are usually illuminated for the sake of convenience. We cannot expect players to run around with a torch all night long just to see something in the middle of a town's main square.

If there is a concrete place where the light is unnecessary or detrimental, please report the exact position.

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Post by Ufedhin » Sat May 09, 2015 8:10 am

Re: Far to much lighting every where

Estralis Seborian wrote:Actually, I think there are enough dark areas in the game for everyone who prefers to lurk in dark corners. The public areas are usually illuminated for the sake of convenience. We cannot expect players to run around with a torch all night long just to see something in the middle of a town's main square.

If there is a concrete place where the light is unnecessary or detrimental, please report the exact position.
The lurking is only part of it and nobody is suggesting the opposite extreme , take the malachite mine for an example, perfect ! only Bruno has the light source ,characters bring there own or mine in the twilight darkness, yet on the way to this mine the road is lit up like a modern city walkway 8 or 9 oil lamps along the roadway. One at the mine entrance and one or two by Gavin and the fishing lizard makes sense .Make the rest have the option to light them up if characters seek to do night mining and need so much light. Of course in the main town centres lamp light is maintained and in those populated sites but why have all the roads lit up like motor ways?
There are plenty of other examples, all I am advocating is less of the illumination just for the sake of illumination, use it with a bit of thought, we do have many fine options available as characters give us the chance to use them at night ,The lighting is so nicely rendered now why don't we maximize its use for the sake of atmosphere .Blotting out the dark in every corner hardly allows for appreciation of the lighting.
Uhuru I look forward to your dungeon ! and with lighting less is more and used wisely it is so powerful for creating excitement.

As a person who lives where the dark is very real ,almost no lights pollute the sky light except the stars and planets, I guess I have a different take on the darkness.
Ps ,I had not given thought that other computers would render the light so dramatically different and I do apologise Vern for my comment, however I do not seek to make you and others who have a deeper darkness, creep around blind ,I just seek a greater atmosphere and use for the dark before it is banished from Illarion.

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Post by Jupiter » Sat May 09, 2015 8:58 am

Re: Far to much lighting every where

It is annoying that every dunegon seems to be full of light sources.

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Post by Matron » Sat May 09, 2015 9:42 am

Re: Far to much lighting every where

Yup, save the candlemakers!

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Post by Grim » Sat May 09, 2015 10:54 am

Re: Far to much lighting every where

Remove most of this glowing mushrooms in woodsand mines... some woods looks more like an disco than an dangoures wood... lol

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Post by maryday » Sun May 10, 2015 3:16 pm

Re: Far to much lighting every where

Join the "Illarion Desaturation Society"!

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Post by Ufedhin » Wed May 13, 2015 4:54 am

Re: Far to much lighting every where

maryday wrote:Join the "Illarion Desaturation Society"!
I have taken the liberty of signing you up first Maryday :lol:

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Post by GolfLima » Wed May 13, 2015 7:14 pm

Re: Far to much lighting every where

im Moment sind // at the moment

Fackeln // torches
Oel- Lampen // oil lamps
Kerzen mit Halter // candles with stick
Laternen // lanterns

vollkommen sinnlos //are totally senseless

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Post by Evie » Wed May 13, 2015 8:37 pm

Re: Far to much lighting every where

Estralis Seborian wrote:Actually, I think there are enough dark areas in the game for everyone who prefers to lurk in dark corners. The public areas are usually illuminated for the sake of convenience. We cannot expect players to run around with a torch all night long just to see something in the middle of a town's main square.

If there is a concrete place where the light is unnecessary or detrimental, please report the exact position.

Agreed, If there is a place that is too bright and not near a town center then please list here. Most of the ingame lighting was put in place before client and script changes effecting the brightness and area of effect of lighting. Feel free to post here you can get coordinates of an area by typing !what in your chat box. The information will appear at the upper left of your screen. So here or mantis and each case listed will be looked into.

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Post by S'rrt » Tue May 19, 2015 10:41 am

Re: Far to much lighting every where

Uhuru wrote:Different computers see light in the game differently.
Very much true. Developers should consider the following before taking comments about lighting as fact:
  • Choice of monitor (desktop, laptop, TV)
  • Monitor manufacturer and/or quality
  • Monitor settings
  • Settings in the graphics processing unit (graphics card or onboard)
  • Circumstantial factors such as lighting in the room and player's eyesight
Maybe the ambient light could be amped up a bit to make up for the inconsistent darkness?

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Post by Lennier » Wed May 20, 2015 11:50 am

Re: Far to much lighting every where

I can not agree with, that candles, torches and other are importless currently. I use them very often.
I also can not agree with, that there are too much static lights. The feature of day and night, of light and darkness only works as a feature that creates atmosphere. And bescause of that the darkness of the night and in dungeons can only work with enough ligthing spots in contrast.


I have to point out some more, that I get the feeling by own experience the last months, that inspecial the lighting feature can create very big problems, inspecial for new players and players who does not play so much. It interferes their gameplay and management how to play very, very strong.

Try to stay in view of a player, that login to his "prime time". He wants to go at treasure hunt, he wants to explore the map, whatever.. but it is night, the whole map is in darkness, for hours every real day. That can be very annoying and prevent to login... I would be very interested on statistics in this matter. There is a link between the day and night situation and the login behavior of our players?

A worse idea, I know. A feature that creates a good ingame atmosphere for some, could be a reason for some other not to play Illarion.

Summary: This feature has to be handled very very sensitive. Illarion need more players. The deep of the gameplay should be linked with this.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Das ganze nochmal auf Deutsch:

Kerzen, Fackeln und Öllampen haben meiner Meinung nach schon einen Nutzen. Ich benutze sie regelmäßig, trotz der so vielen statischen Lichter. Es sind meiner Meinung nach aber auch nicht zuviele statische Lichter auf der Karte. Das Feature von Tag und Nacht, von hell und Dunkel funktioniert doch nur im Kontrast zueinander. Die Atmosphäre wird nicht durch Dunkelheit geschaffen, sondern durch genügend Lichtspots zwischen dem Dunkeln.


Durch Erfahrungen der letzten Wochen und Monate komme ich immer mehr auf den Gedanken, dass das Licht-System ein sehr heikles Feature ist, welches das Spielverhalten extrem beeinflussen kann. Vielleicht sogar das Loginverhalten. Insobesondere für neue Spieler und Spieler mit nur wenig Zeit zum Spielen.

Stellt euch vor, ihr spielt nicht so häufig (So wie ich derzeit). Und wenn ihr Zeit habt zum Spielen, dann habt ihr euch vielleicht etwas vorgenommen, was genau ihr machen wollt. Vielleicht auf Schatzjagd gehen, die Karte erkunden oder irgendwas anderes. Ihr loggt ein und müsst feststellen es ist Nacht. Das bedeutet, die Karte liegt im Dunkeln, für mehrere Stunden jeden realen Tag.

Als Spieler, der Illarion schon seit den Anfängen spielt und lange mitgestaltet hat, empfinde ich das Lichtsystem als Feature. Aber ein anderer Spieler, vor allem ein Neuer, der dieses Feature aus anderen Spielen so nicht kennt, wird dies vielleicht als Hinderniss gegen das eigene Spielverhalten betrachten. Vielleicht überlegt er sich sogar wieder auszuloggen, nur weil ingame die falsche Tageszeit herrscht.

Der Gedanke klingt schrecklich, ich weis. Das Feature soll die Spielatmopshäre stärken, könnte uns aber gleichzeitig viele Spieler kosten. In dem Zusammenhäng würde mich eine Statistik über das Spielverhalten, über das Loginverhalten in Relation zur ingamen Tag-Nacht-Situation interessieren.

Zusammengefasst:
Das Licht-System ist heikel und muss sehr behutsam eingesetzt und entwickelt werden. Ein tolles Feature für die einen, darf nicht zur Belastung für andere werden. Illarion braucht dringend Spieler. Das sollte vor jeder weiteren Komplexität Vorrang haben.

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Post by Uhuru » Wed May 20, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Far to much lighting every where

Lennier makes some good points. Nighttime does affect my log times. I will log out characters because I don't want to hunt in the dark, especially if there is nobody to RP with or nothing else to do. To not have nighttime though would seem odd. I can't even imagine it.

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Post by Achae Eanstray » Thu May 21, 2015 4:24 pm

Re: Far to much lighting every where

Just a FYI, may be helpful to some: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... =windows-7

http://www.howto-connect.com/set-bright ... nd-laptop/

Also some computers will let you name that display i.e. Illarion so it would be easy to right click and pick that display when starting the game.


It is obvious people are seeing different amount of brightness on different computers. In order to get the kind you think is best possibly a slight increase or decrease in brightness will at least help some.

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Post by nathi » Thu May 21, 2015 4:34 pm

Re: Far to much lighting every where

Lennier wrote: Illarion braucht dringend Spieler. Das sollte vor jeder weiteren Komplexität Vorrang haben.
Danke Lennier - sehr treffend formuliert

lg nathi

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Post by Ufedhin » Fri May 22, 2015 8:16 am

Re: Far to much lighting every where

Losing the night is not the answer to increase player numbers ,the easy street regiment have slashed and burnt so many special features of illarion we have almost a photo negative of the old game" Great graphics, dull mechanic's" as opposed to the old illarion ,yet strangely the old system in my opinion had far more charm and challenge.
But we cant look back now can we? so forward we go into what? let me just say the slash and burn ,slash and burn... ad nauseam of all challenging aspects, and the final death of what remains would not bring a flood of new players.
For goodness sake how can so many want the end of all ingame challenges?(for this is how it appears to me ) these things kept me in game often when I had none to chat with ,it was of great triumph when my character after a long hard struggle obtained a major goal or got a great treasure.
But I guess Im a left over from a bygone age.

Bring back madness mummies, snow & rain ,winter hardships (fruits etc) different crop production in towns affected by the seasons, differing gem attributes , character descriptions etc..etc..etc.. Leave the night alone!

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Post by Evie » Fri May 22, 2015 8:42 am

Re: Far to much lighting every where

Fyi Madness Mummies are back just like they were in Gobaith.

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Fri May 22, 2015 11:20 am

Re: Far to much lighting every where

Ufedhin wrote:For goodness sake how can so many want the end of all ingame challenges?
I am constantly looking for challenges to add to this game and immersive features. Perhaps you can send me a PM or open a new thread with the challenges you want to see added, how they should work in principle and what you would especially enjoy about them? Also it is helpful to note what this challenge would mean to a new player and what aspect of it would make the player stick to Illarion.

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Post by Ufedhin » Fri May 22, 2015 12:43 pm

Re: Far to much lighting every where

Evie wrote:Fyi Madness Mummies are back just like they were in Gobaith.
By Irmoroms beard ! :shock: that is pleasing news.

Estralis the thing that worries me the most about the loss or streamlining of so many of Illarions special features of old is that it has made no difference to player numbers ,one could almost argue the opposite . The game world is so rich graphic wise now (You Dev's have done an awesome job here) and yet we have lost so many of the quaint immersive features I so enjoyed and that hooked me into the game .Im not asking for anything new just a return of some immersive features that have been mistakenly dumped in the erroneous view its helpful to new players.

If the game contains no struggles ,it will lose any players who enjoy victory over adversity, I mean after all why play a fantasy medieval game if its no more dangerous or difficult than a stroll down to the corner store (ghetto and slum dwellers excepted) excitement is paramount in a fantasy world ,that and a sense of victory and achievement .( my character was asked the other day 'are your preparing for winter? my reply was "why ? we live in a land of constant bounty ,winter does not exist) and yet it did once and the roleplaying generated by that yearly fact was great.

I think a new thread might get messy, as it would seem I am very much in the minority so I will pm you some requests with my reasoning .
I do believe Illaron can become something bigger with a larger player base ,but not by slash and burn of our (once)many unique features.

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Post by Nitram » Fri May 22, 2015 9:40 pm

Re: Far to much lighting every where

Actually I am, at least in parts with Ufedhin here.

I'd like Illarion to become more challenging and stuff.
Yet in matters of the lighting I am actually planning to make the nights a little less dark as they are now.

Not in general yet the current light calculation for the night does not take the moons of Illarion into account and the light reflected by them. That is something I intent to change and that will lead to brighter nights (if only slightly). But a night where both moons are fully reflecting the sunlight will be a lot brighter then the current night.

This may direct into the opposite direction.

But in the end I think Illarion should contain both:
Easy thing to do for newbies and to drag people into the game and really nasty difficult/dangerous/hard things to keep players in the game.

Nitram

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Post by Ufedhin » Sat May 23, 2015 3:19 am

Re: Far to much lighting every where

"Not in general yet the current light calculation for the night does not take the moons of Illarion into account and the light reflected by them. That is something I intent to change and that will lead to brighter nights (if only slightly). But a night where both moons are fully reflecting the sunlight will be a lot brighter then the current night."


Nitram could this coincide with a total absence of the moons in the night sky during Mas ,therefore having a horrific deep darkness covering the land during the those nights of blood and horror?

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Post by Nitram » Sat May 23, 2015 9:23 am

Re: Far to much lighting every where

That is the plan Ufedhin.

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Post by Ufedhin » Sun May 24, 2015 9:04 am

Re: Far to much lighting every where

Nitram wrote:That is the plan Ufedhin.
Can be seen rubbing his hands together with glee.

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Post by maryday » Tue May 26, 2015 9:44 pm

Re: Far to much lighting every where

Then give me a motion blurred particle generator for the weather and i can finally crumble to dust, as i am meant to be...

*Disappears into the (volumetric, N/NNE/NE/ENE/E/ESE/SE/SES/S...) flowing fog, giggling , as the seething smoke (with mass and grav) towers above the (dynamic) flames,
devouring the motionless body on the stake.*


...blowing in the wind!

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