Modification of the god devotion system

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Teflon
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Modification of the god devotion system

Post by Teflon »

Dear community,

I am considering to rework our younger gods devotion system and I would like to share my ideas and reason for them and further ask you for your feedback and help.

Currently, you can only be devoted to one god out of elven younger gods. I like to open up this because I do not see the point why someone can him/herself not devote to more than one god. In particular, since our three towns have each three gods. So, it is very reasonable that our leaders are devoted to those three gods and probably some of your chars would like to do the same.
I would like to install a system similar to our faction-rank-system for each of the eleven younger gods. I call this god-rank-system and I am also thinking to use 10 ranks (from this god doesn't care about you to this god wants a child from you - I see the first requests to have a child from Moshran. :P) with 100points for each rank (total 1000). The higher your rank is, the more a god likes you and thus will be in favor to you. This might become important for priest magic to some extent. For instance the higher the rank, the more likely a prayer will work or the more powerfull will be the result. Since prayers will most likely always include other chars, any ones rank in the god-rank-system will count.

The current devotion system works with three god-specific items for each god. You have to bring those three itmes to the altar and use them with the altar. I would keep this to some extent. Players should still use god-specific-items at the altar. Every time they do so, their god-rank will increase and therefore respective god will like them more. For instance, you go to Sirani and devote those required three items in order to gain 5 god-rank-points. Similar to daily quests, I would like to use a cooldown (LTE) here, in order to avoid that people are every gods darling within three days. I also like to extent currently used items. Instead of using all the time the same three items, there should be pool where randomly three are picked. Here, I see two advantages: 1) more variety 2) an option to find use for many currently unused items.

As already mentioned, I prefer to avoid that chars become every gods darling. I, therefore, like to limit god-rankpoints for all gods. I see here three options:
1) It will only be possible to gather for example 1999 god-rankpoints in total. So, someone can chose either to become the darling of one god or being recognized by all gods or something in between. In this case, it should be possible to drop your god-rankpoints, so that you can rearrange your devotion to gods.
2) It could be that your god-rankpoints drop automatically after some time (IG,RL or both) when you do not devote to this god anymore. Of course, its drop-time should be much slower than the time you need to collect your god-rankpoints.
3) Put gods into groups according to the seperation of gods of our towns as we have them now. For instance, if you devote yourself to a god, you will drop in favour of all other gods. The ratio should not be 1:1 but rather 2:1 for gods of other towns and 4:1 for gods of the same town. So, if you increase your char's devotion points for Nargun about 4 points, your devotion points for Ronagan and Irmorow drop by 1 point and for all other younger gods (8) your devotion points drop by 2 points.
4) Some combination of those points above.

I also see an option for an higher increase for a devotion if other chars are around in order to motivate players to work together but it would need some safty net against abuse. However, this system will not be extended to older or minor gods. Those gods are considered more mystical, similar to rituals in arcane magic.

What is the motivation for this modification?
  • make religion more important
  • give useage to items, which do not have any or little use currently
  • create a core system that functions as basis for future priest magic
  • additional tasks and goal
What can you do?
  • Provide constructive feedback, further ideas or share your concerns.
  • Provide a list with items, which a) would fit as sacrifice to a god in your opinion (please do not discuss items others believe to fit to a god) or b) can be created but do not have any use currently. Please relate those items always to at least one god, state if they are low, medium and high class items and what craft you need to produce those items.
Currently used items

Code: Select all

--These are the items I need to become a devotee
  devoteItems={};
  devoteItems[1]={733,316,2588}; --Ushara: Stone block, Quartz sand, Brick
  devoteItems[2]={314,236,43}; --Brágon: potash, Gold ignot, Candle
  devoteItems[3]={256,2745,155}; --Eldan: Raw diamonds, Parchment, Sibanac leaf
  devoteItems[4]={52,253,72}; --Tanora: Bucket of water, Raw sapphire, Fishing rod
  devoteItems[5]={64,463,65}; --Findari: Arrow, Quill, Short Bow
  devoteItems[6]={80,356,733}; --Nargùn: Banana, Slouch hat, Stone block
  devoteItems[7]={2745,43,463}; --Elara: Parchment, Candle, Quill
  devoteItems[8]={223,2500,388}; --Adron: Iron Goblet, Bottle of Wine, Grapes
  devoteItems[9]={258,534,259}; --Oldra: Flail, Onion seeds, Grain
  devoteItems[10]={24,43,182}; --Cherga: Shovel, Candle, Black shirt
  devoteItems[11]={19,65,2586}; --Malachín: Metal shield, Short bow, Fur
  devoteItems[12]={3077,23,2140}; --Irmorom: Silver coin, Hammer, Tongs
  devoteItems[13]={235,144,174}; --Sirani: Gold ring, Virgins weed, Red cloth
  devoteItems[14]={2760,17,78}; --Zhambra: Rope, Wooden shield, Short sword
  devoteItems[15]={2760,190,48}; --Ronagan: Rope, Ornate dagger, Leather gloves
  devoteItems[16]={16,63,2757}; --Moshran: Orcish helmet, Entrails, Scimitar
--These are the items I need to become a priest. Not relevant for now since there is no priest magic.
  priestItems={};
  priestItems[1]={2416,40,26,726,735}; --Ushara: Brown priest robe, Cleric's staff, Clay, Coarse sand, Raw stone
  priestItems[2]={2419,40,391,46,234}; --Brágon: Red priest robe, Cleric's staff, Torch, Ruby, Gold nugget
  priestItems[3]={2418,40,41,285,463}; --Eldan: Grey priest robe, Cleric's staff, Glass ignot, Diamond, Quill
  priestItems[4]={193,40,2496,284,279}; --Tanora: Blue robe, Cleric's staff, Bottle of Water, Sapphire, Sapphire ring
  priestItems[5]={2421,40,2780,322,166}; --Findari: White priest robe, Cleric's staff, Longbow, Wind arrow, Big empty bottle
  priestItems[6]={2418,445,355,225,290}; --Nargùn: Grey priest robe, Wooden sword, Salmon, Crown, Cabbage
  priestItems[7]={368,76,397,3110,222}; --Elara: Yellow priest robe, Mage's staff, Oil lamp, Pell, Amulet
  priestItems[8]={2419,224,335,2744,155}; --Adron: Red priest robe, Golden goblet, Lute, Pipe, Sibanac leaf
  priestItems[9]={2416,271,126,2786,249}; --Oldra: Brown priest robe, Scythe, Sickle, Branch, Bundle of grain
  priestItems[10]={2420,271,138,314,726}; --Cherga: Black priest robe, Scythe, Night angels blossom, potash, Coarse sand
  priestItems[11]={2421,20,391,2291,78}; --Malachín: White priest robe, Large metal shield, Torch, Salkamaerian Paladin's helmet, Shortsword
  priestItems[12]={2418,226,74,2763,2752}; --Irmorom: Gray priest robe, War Hammer, Hatchet, Pickaxe, Carving tools
  priestItems[13]={2421,40,280,354,222}; --Sirani: White priest robe, Cleric's staff, Diamond ring, Strawberry cake, Amulet
  priestItems[14]={368,20,2701,40,333}; --Zhambra: Yellow priest robe, Large metal shield, Longsword, Cleric's staff, Horn
  priestItems[15]={2420,2689,384,365,285}; --Ronagan: Black priest robe, Poisoned ornate dagger, Thieves gloves, Half leather armor, Diamond
  priestItems[16]={2420,552,39,69,2746}; --Moshran: Black priest robe, Deer meat, Skull staff, Raw leather, razor blade
Items list that should help you to come up with ideas
http://illarion.org/~devserver/itemlist.pdf
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Mephistopheles
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Re: Modification of the god devotion system

Post by Mephistopheles »

A good question is what exactly are the perks of becoming a devotee of a god? Is it only a priest thing? and bringing up priest magic, what stats does it involve?

Just some questions :P
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Uhuru
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Re: Modification of the god devotion system

Post by Uhuru »

Teflon wrote: [*]create a core system that functions as basis for future priest magic
Mephy, think one question is already answered, and until the magical foundation is set, I doubt the other can be answered regarding what stats will be needed.
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Ufedhin
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Re: Modification of the god devotion system

Post by Ufedhin »

This is a very interesting proposal Teflon I like it very much, in a pantheon of gods such a ranking system has great merit ! :D
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Banduk
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Re: Modification of the god devotion system

Post by Banduk »

Great idea, I like it:
I’d prefer a solution of all points to make sure anybody can’t become every God’s darling.
1. Limit the total rankpoints. The limit should allow to become a master priest for a single God but you can’t become total devoted to more than a single God (so 1750 if 1000 is the max for a single God works)
2. Drop rankpoints time based (IG time please not to discriminate infrequent playing chars). It should be slow and could have some random effect. Maybe 2% very angry God (-3); … 45% ignored (no decrease). Who know what the Gods do?
3. Once you’d try to exceed the limit the other gods may become more or less angry and the rankpoints decrease. Any relation in between the Gods (local Gods lesser annoyed then foreign) might be fine.
But I’d prefer a random function. 3 times the increase is removed from other (maybe any, including the blessed one).

Even without priest magic there might be some advantages.
The following effects might be a way:
Nargùn - Better chance to find seldom items
Elara - Faster learning
Adron - Longer lasting potions
Oldra - More harvest
Cherga - Faster healing after dead
Malachín - More luck in fight
Irmorom - Better dexterity
Sirani - Faster healing
Zhambra - More town rank points
Ronagan - Monster ignorance distance is higher
Moshran - Better parry

A rank list shown at the shrine shows you the current most favored priest (except Moshran!). It shows the top 3 of all chars and the most loved of the currently awake (online). A char is taken out of the list after a certain time of inactivity (maybe 5 weeks).
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GolfLima
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Re: Modification of the god devotion system

Post by GolfLima »

1) i like the principe of the idea
2) what about the older gods? - why are there only advantages for the younger ones?
3) i dont like the idea of limitations - priest magic would be the only system with limitations than - there is no limitation in fighting / crafting / mage magic
Alrik
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Re: Modification of the god devotion system

Post by Alrik »

Another point should be:

Access to at least one altar of eacht god so you could become a follower. For example I know at least two shrines of Adron - one is at the Hemp Necktie Inn (couldn ´t reached without GM help at the moment if nothing has changed) at one should be at the Tower of Water at Runewick (Tower is closed at the moment, so this shrine couldn´t be reached).

But equal which god it is, at least one accessable shrine per god should be possible.
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Jupiter
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Re: Modification of the god devotion system

Post by Jupiter »

GolfLima wrote: there is no limitation in fighting / crafting / mage magic
There is no mage magic currently. Nothing to say there. Alchemy II will also have some kind of limitation. And I certainly want a limitation for the god thingy. It takes the edge off if everyone can become every gods' darling. Boring as hell. Decide who you consider your patron!
Teflon
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Re: Modification of the god devotion system

Post by Teflon »

***quick reminder for myself to post here*** :)

and yes, it will be only for the older gods, since priest magic will only address younger gods according to current drafts. and yeah, it will be a first step towards priest magic. any god devotion (priest & friends/foes) will have impact on success or failure on a prayer/spell.
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Q-wert
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Re: Modification of the god devotion system

Post by Q-wert »

My problem with the exclusion of the elder Gods:

Lore wise we have certain races (2 out of 6 playable races!) and cultures that, while being strongly religious, have no business with the younger Gods.
Introducing ingame content that encourages involvement with the younger Gods, and only them, (and promising in-game advantages on top if you do) encourages players to play lore-wise rare exceptions instead of what should be normal. Basicly it rewards bad roleplay for lizards and elves (and certain cultures for other races).

Idea on how to counter this (if the exclusion of the elder Gods is considered essential) :
  • Provide an ability for players to exclude their characters from that system in favor of a player defined "pantheon". Just make that a string, so people can choose one of Moshrans many children, the Ushak–Sskhath, south-gynkesian snake cults or any other of the oddities our lore provides aside from the elder Gods. Or just make it a list to choose from, to prevent Jesus and Thor from popping up in game. Changing to (or away from) a player defined pantheon should reset any points in regards of the devotion system.
    Add a fun little bonus for people choosing that alternative and let Lizards, Elves and Flameorcs be on a pre-defined pantheon (Zelphia, The Five, Brágon) by default. Maybe add in a devotion value only modifiable by gms.
In the end I personally do not understand nor like the exclusion of the elder Gods as someone who mainly plays a devout lizard. How about you just add the elder Gods in, just give them more weight (as in you loose a lot of devotion to them if you gain favour from anyone asides the old Gods or even any other God)?

Edit: Idea for items gaining favour for one of the elder Gods: Respective pure elements.

Edit no. 2, for Estralis:
The Ushak–Sskhath is a lizard legend, also covered by the shortened lore on the web page. It is an ancient, immortal and huge lizardman told to live in a secret temple under the sea. Kind of a holy grail meets Moses for lizardkind. It is also said that he is watching over, judging and executing lizard priests. The part where he is a demigod, a child of a tragic love affair of Tanora (which is still hinted in her description), and the first of all lizards is not officially covered any more, but still circulates ingame.
Last edited by Q-wert on Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Estralis Seborian
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Re: Modification of the god devotion system

Post by Estralis Seborian »

Ushak... Who!?

For the elder gods, separate drafts are in preparation. This is "only" about the eleven younger gods. And no, I am not in favour of additional 27 demi gods plus player defined Wullahmen.
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Q-wert
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Re: Modification of the god devotion system

Post by Q-wert »

I think the promise of an system covering the elder Gods somewhere on the far horizon calms loud and angry players of lizards or elves such as me.

To keep it short, my plea to who(m)ever* works on this:
  • While implementing the new god devotion system, please keep in mind that normal elves and lizards with a sound mind should not even consider praying to the eleven younger Gods. Some People might (well, certain people should) follow Gods not covered by that system.

*? English grammar does not yet cease to confuse me.
Teflon
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Re: Modification of the god devotion system

Post by Teflon »

no one will stop your char praying to elder gods or demi-gods. it will just not have impact script wise. currently, the idea is to use this god devotion system for the future priest system later. this means, only the younger gods get script support but for any other god you will need a gm. you can imagine this like our magic-system was. you could use runes (scripts) for ordinary magic but if you wanted to do rituals and such things, you were in need of a gm.

however, if we consider elder gods in this devotion system, how should it work? when you devote yourself to a younger god, you piss all elder gods and vice versa? Or do the elder gods not care at all but the younger gods even more? how shall it work among elder gods? can you devote to all five or only one?
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Q-wert
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Re: Modification of the god devotion system

Post by Q-wert »

Answer to Teflon (trying to keep it short):

-Handle each elder God as one diety, with an own devotion value.
-Handle elder Gods the same as young Gods in terms of points. Even elves have favourites among the Five. Do a tiny decrease in favour for other elder Gods on devotion gain.
-Gaining devotion for a young God should piss off the Elder and vice versa. Combinations with one Elder and some few Young (or vice versa) should be possible, but not easy.
-Build in a relation between Ushara and Oldra as well as Brágon and Malachín, as the later (do/did?) act as representatives of the first. Maybe add each devotion gain to the other.



Only loosely connected idea: Modification of devotion values according to race.
Was thinking of multipliers for the devotion gain to encourage lore-friendly devotion.
Background for the 'easier' races tells something like this:
  • Humans: + young Gods; - old Gods
    Elves: + old Gods; - young Gods
    Halfings: + Oldra, Ronagan; - Moshran
    Lizards: + Tanora; - All exept Tanora
    (could do a complete, refined list, if wanted)
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