PvE

Here you can make and discuss suggestions to improve the game. / Hier kannst du Vorschläge einreichen und diskutieren um das Spiel zu verbessern.

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Mephistopheles
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PvE

Post by Mephistopheles »

Okay I know this is still in the works. However I want to bring some things up.

The main difference between the pre-vbu PvE and post-vbu PvE is that in pre-vbu there were players that were simply overpowered and many creatures didn't have much punch compared to them, and there wasn't nearly as many monsters (unless a mage was having fun) as there are currently. One character being able to take on 5-6 demon skeletons without taking much of a scratch is insanely overpowered, basically chars could do nearly anything solo if they played smart, and battlemages? thats an even funnier joke. Okay but now... Warriors need to fight high end monsters which are never alone and if they use a weapon type that is strong against you armor.. you won't even be capable of getting away. In a group of four (which you'll rarely have full stated warriors, or archers or even when mages come it will be the same result) monsters will still win because if even one char has the wrong armor he/she will run and die and the group will try to protect him/her and die themselves. Monsters are op, its simple, you will need a very large group (6-8 chars) to be successful on maps or fighting in tough areas. I have noticed myself that its almost easier to survive by myself than with a group, because my char is basically a full stated warrior dealing high damage and able to take a decent amount, I am expected to tank, yet tanking is impossible. Honestly I can go on and on and on. But here are simple plain to read facts:
-Monsters are op
-Crafters are the most attractive class currently
-combat based characters must take up a craft and spend both time on the craft and time on their fighting skills using much mental capacity
-There are not enough players for such group oriented fighting
-Loot is horrible
-There are still too many monsters in areas and you will need a group of proper built chars with the best stuff to face them and still chances are slim

I have a few suggestions, not all should happen and don't take this as fighters need to be babied. To build a successful combat based character is hard work, I've seen my hard work play out well for awhile but since the pathfindng update it is seemingly all not worth the effort I put in. Here are my suggestions.
-adjust coin loot by about 10% (item loot is quite fair, you need to do treasure maps for good items) OR
-Gem effects implemented (I KNOW this kinda went dead after awhile because of people saying there wasn't good effects for crafters which I think is a horribly flawed statement, there is nothing wrong with the said effects mentioned, and there was the issue of effects being buggy, maybe we can work around the bugs or perhaps put gems into armor. All in all, I really think it would benefit to discuss it further, not argue or demand but to come to a mutual agreement and come up with collaborative ideas) OR
-Lower overall monster strength by about 10-15% (besides the current lv 9s, Son of the mountains, Black dragonskeletons, and Merinium golems do not need to be and should not be adjusted, I personally think they are perfect)

if you have other ideas PLEASE put them down, and lets not fight please, lets put our heads together to make everyone happy. It's a game we're here to have fun, no need to get angry at one another.
Alessaina
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Re: PvE

Post by Alessaina »

What exactly would you propose for gem effects in weapons, armour, etc?

I know some ideas were brought forward here.

Maybe if you (or we) were able to come up with a list of effects magic gems could have on armour and weapons, then it would have a more apt chance to be considered.

While lowering strength seems nice, I don't think this is the true problem. I believe the problem lies in the speed with which monsters run/chase after you, then surrounding you and ghosting you really fast.
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Uhuru
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Re: PvE

Post by Uhuru »

Uhuru was ghosted holding a giant thing and attacked by six other things while trying to protect Caldarion. Thing is, Once she got that giant thing down just as she ghosted, he was fine. But holding that much at one time is difficult. Even using a healing potion, she couldn't use another during the time due to the healing effect of the first one. None of the monsters were of significantly high levels, but the combined efforts add up and even a strong warrior falls. Uhuru was holding six and the giant and Caldarion was holding three others I believe. Wolves and other things, including a troll of some kind.

I do like that the monsters find us now, I do like the pathfinding. It was broken before, but now too many things zero in on us. It's just too difficult, especially when you look at the loot/coins taken. Just not worth the effort.

Can the monster's area of "sight/visibility" be taken back down some more?
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Mephistopheles
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Re: PvE

Post by Mephistopheles »

Yes, Another thing I'd like to bring up, How is a warrior getting his equipment (currently not equipment from before) and if he can't even get proper equipment then how is he getting potions to help him fight?
Answer: He/she must take up a side craft, make his/her own things or sell these things to players (not many buy much) or spend endless hours making and selling items to npcs. And now that he/she has worked so hard to buy that good equipment he/she must spend more endless hours to level up their skills with such a crazy high mc.
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Achae Eanstray
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Re: PvE

Post by Achae Eanstray »

I would like to see these problems fixed: http://illarion.org/mantis/view.php?id=8144 Perhaps when they are other efforts might still need to be made, but it could also be enough in and of itself?
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Uhuru
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Re: PvE

Post by Uhuru »

Just to add to this:

Lich: there is another lich south or southwest of the temple of five. So difficult to beat now with the pathfinding as all the undead swarm around the main warrior holding the lich and s/he can't move. Even in a group of three or four, the undead are difficult to take down fast enough to keep them from overpowering the ones trying to take down the lich. Because of this, a larger group is now needed to take out a lich. I would request that the lich stop hopping about so much and his summoning be reduced as well. Please feel free to test for your selves developers. :)

Unholy Acolyte: Yes, had a run in with this tonight as well. Was a bad day for Uhuru... anyways... Uhuru couldn't out run it on road and bridge and barely made it off to grass. The acolyte kept on her heals, right on her heals and hitting her the whole way, the whole time. Uhuru didn't get even one space ahead or without a hit at all. This beast was just southwest of the Necktie in, near the second bridge. Not very far out. It caught her just before that bridge and she fell just a few paces after the bridge. Never getting a potion down. It was bad. Could you please slow down some of these monsters?

I think just getting out there and trying to run from stuff will show you more than we ever could in words. But please remember, we don't run so fast here in the states. Thanks.
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Estralis Seborian
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Re: PvE

Post by Estralis Seborian »

I recommend to split up this topic. There are too many points discussed (gem effects, monster magic, monster stats, drops,...). Once you have concrete proposals, I suggest to post them on Mantis. Taking a look at the relevant scrips will also help, Illarion is open source! https://github.com/Illarion-eV/Illarion-Content

Please note that even a new character (with proper attributes) but beginner equipment can take out level 5 monster alone. For higher levels (well, I can also take on level 6, but requires a lot of effort), it is true that the fights turn deathly.

One thing to add: Once we have mages and priests, I am pretty sure that the tide will turn again; instead of nerfing monsters, we could as well work on giving players a harder punch.
Avariel

Re: PvE

Post by Avariel »

Hm... well, I agree that monsters have become very strong, but I really like it, that fighting became a matter of surrounding. One has to choose the right surface, as some surfaces slow down enemies very much, others not at all. I like to prepare a treasure hunt, by killing smaler monsters and looking for a place of refuge. I like to run alot, to seperate and kill monsters. Also, there are other benefits, characters can use. Avariel is able again to dig up pirate treasure on his own, I think that is enough for a single character. If the monsters get weaker, he will dig up the giant treasures alone also... that would spoil the need of groups.

But please take the ability to teleport from the lich. It is almost impossible to kill it.
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Silverwing
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Re: PvE

Post by Silverwing »

Avariel wrote:But please take the ability to teleport from the lich. It is almost impossible to kill it.
The Lich is one of the strongest monsters we've got so is ment to be very hard to kill. This monster is ment to be a challange for a group of skilled fighters with high end equipment.
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Rincewind
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Re: PvE

Post by Rincewind »

the teleport ability of mages isn't the problem. It's their endless ammjount of mana, and their abilityy to cast without a break.
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Estralis Seborian
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Re: PvE

Post by Estralis Seborian »

Monsters have no mana.
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Rincewind
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Re: PvE

Post by Rincewind »

that's the problem.

how will they behave to attacks on mana (via magic, priest or alchemy) if there is none? Or at least something smiliar to simulate it?
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Mephistopheles
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Re: PvE

Post by Mephistopheles »

Avariel wrote:Hm... well, I agree that monsters have become very strong, but I really like it, that fighting became a matter of surrounding. One has to choose the right surface, as some surfaces slow down enemies very much, others not at all. I like to prepare a treasure hunt, by killing smaler monsters and looking for a place of refuge. I like to run alot, to seperate and kill monsters. Also, there are other benefits, characters can use. Avariel is able again to dig up pirate treasure on his own, I think that is enough for a single character. If the monsters get weaker, he will dig up the giant treasures alone also... that would spoil the need of groups.

But please take the ability to teleport from the lich. It is almost impossible to kill it.
You're right, I don't think nerfing monsters will help. Maybe just extra features that players can use to gain an advantage over monsters, nothing extreme but enough so that groups won't be still so easily beaten.

@Estralis I know this proposal is a mess I was hoping for a discussion which would lead to people coming up with clear mantis reports instead of simply myself running off and making them myself. And on the topic of open source, much of it is hard for me to understand. I'm not a dev and don't think I will become one. I try to help with ideas as best I can and if someone can teach me I might be able to play around with the map editor to help open some areas up.

On Gem effects, this is a very controversial subject as it's hard to come up with a good collaborative idea that will make all the classes happy. So I hope the topic can become active again as ideas are again discussed. Here is where the Gem effect conversation should proceed to make some room for the other discussions here :D http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... 94&t=38538
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Uhuru
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Re: PvE

Post by Uhuru »

Estralis Seborian wrote:I recommend to split up this topic. There are too many points discussed (gem effects, monster magic, monster stats, drops,...). Once you have concrete proposals, I suggest to post them on Mantis. Taking a look at the relevant scrips will also help, Illarion is open source! https://github.com/Illarion-eV/Illarion-Content

Please note that even a new character (with proper attributes) but beginner equipment can take out level 5 monster alone. For higher levels (well, I can also take on level 6, but requires a lot of effort), it is true that the fights turn deathly.

One thing to add: Once we have mages and priests, I am pretty sure that the tide will turn again; instead of nerfing monsters, we could as well work on giving players a harder punch.
Yes, Estralis, taking out a single level 5 monster is a breeze. Even a level 6 can be accomplished with a bit more effort. Have you tried facing 6 or 8 of a mixed group of monsters at one time? This is what pathfinding does, has a whole pack of monsters zero in on a character from a long distance away. The range is quite astounding on some of them, and they even see around/through trees and walls. As I wrote above, I like that pathfinding is working, but it seems to be working far too well still.

Magic in the game will help immensely, but you are talking months down the road.
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Mephistopheles
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Re: PvE

Post by Mephistopheles »

I think the solution to this is more features players can use as strategy, instead of nerfing monsters or buffing players. I'll try to think some up =P and attempt to reopen the gem effects talk
Alessaina
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Re: PvE

Post by Alessaina »

I am locking this topic because it hasn't had any posts recently. Please post in appropriate are on mantis if you so wish.
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