Gem effects

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Mephistopheles
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Gem effects

Post by Mephistopheles »

okay so many can agree that the old gem effects made things a hell of a lot more interesting, there were so many ways to build your character up with the gems it was almost absurd. The previous gem system was awesome, but now for the many who would like a similar system put into play again we need come up with some ideas.

problems with reimplementing the old gem system: 1.) The current system supports the need to gather a whole set of gems, changing to a single socketing system from that would be very hard due to the large circulation of gems. 2.) whats up with diamonds? and 3.) People from different towns would complain about not getting the particularly gem they want (which I would personally think that they are stupid because seeing all the old gem effects I see none of them undesirable and having so damn many ways to build up a character with just about any gem)

so, I asked a few people what they thought and one guy comes up with a great idea that would get us gem effects AND solve 2 out of the three problems! (thanks Caldarion)

The idea is that you gather a set of gems to fuse into a single stone that has the effect of one of the old gems, so say I'd like to fuse a set of gems (level of the gems in the set determining the quality of fused stone of course) so I go to an altar or magical gemsmith and I want say.. gem of the four winds (having all the old effects of the magical amythyts) fwoosh.. and you have a gem to socket into a weapon, armor, trinket etc etc, but the fuse is irreversible if you make a gem of the four winds thats what you get. This gives us the old gem effects, supports the large circulation of gems, AND no one can complain because they CHOOSE the effect of the fused stone!
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GolfLima
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Re: Gem effects

Post by GolfLima »

:?: :roll: :?:

:arrow:

Kann das bitte mal Jemand in die "alte Sprache / Deutsch" übersetzen, irgendwie komme ich nicht mehr mit.
DANKE.
8)
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Leon Demelii
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Leon Demelii »

I might be wrong in this, so please correct me if so:

You mean to say if I collect a set of "slight": amethyst, ruby, obsidian, sapphire, emerald and topaz, that I will happily sacrifice them for one "slight" stone from the previous client?
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Mephistopheles
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Mephistopheles »

of course =D its hella work but theres alot more options for it than the current system
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Leon Demelii
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Leon Demelii »

Mephistopheles wrote:of course =D its hella work but theres alot more options for it than the current system

Still easier than the previous client. Hunting gems was a total b****.
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Uhuru
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Uhuru »

All right, but what does one slight four winds gem get us in a weapon as apposed to a whole set of slight gems, which we have now? (Because, to be honest, I'm not sure what the whole set gets me besides a fancy percentage. No idea how it improves the weapon.)

And, can we put in more than the one slight four winds gem? Still putting in up to six gems? Or changing it back to the old design of only two stones per weapon?
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Mephistopheles
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Mephistopheles »

the current system gives the weapon a higher attack value but these are the old gem effects, it will hopefully be very similar or the same as the old system... hopefully if the devs decide to use it.

these are the old gem effects of which you can choose from as you combine or "fuse" a set

http://pastebin.com/K0FFtrCX

http://pastebin.com/tXbMbuEf
Alrik
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Alrik »

Mephistopheles wrote:okay so many can agree that the old gem effects made things a hell of a lot more interesting, there were so many ways to build your character up with the gems it was almost absurd. The previous gem system was awesome, but now for the many who would like a similar system put into play again we need come up with some ideas.

problems with reimplementing the old gem system: 1.) The current system supports the need to gather a whole set of gems, changing to a single socketing system from that would be very hard due to the large circulation of gems. 2.) whats up with diamonds? and 3.) People from different towns would complain about not getting the particularly gem they want (which I would personally think that they are stupid because seeing all the old gem effects I see none of them undesirable and having so damn many ways to build up a character with just about any gem)

so, I asked a few people what they thought and one guy comes up with a great idea that would get us gem effects AND solve 2 out of the three problems! (thanks Caldarion)

The idea is that you gather a set of gems to fuse into a single stone that has the effect of one of the old gems, so say I'd like to fuse a set of gems (level of the gems in the set determining the quality of fused stone of course) so I go to an altar or magical gemsmith and I want say.. gem of the four winds (having all the old effects of the magical amythyts) fwoosh.. and you have a gem to socket into a weapon, armor, trinket etc etc, but the fuse is irreversible if you make a gem of the four winds thats what you get. This gives us the old gem effects, supports the large circulation of gems, AND no one can complain because they CHOOSE the effect of the fused stone!
Nachdem schon oben die bitte kam, mein Versuch einer Übersetzung ins deutsche. Sollte ich was falsch übersetzen, bitte korriegieren oder bescheid sagen

--

Because it was aksed before, my try of a translation into german. Should I translate somethin wrong, please correct me or give me a word.


Viele stimmen darüber ein dass die alten Effekte der magische Edelsteine das ganze um einiges interessanter gemacht hatten, es gab viele Gelegenheiten einen Charakter mit Edelsteinen auszubauen dass es schon absurd war. Das alte System der magische Edelsteine war klasse, aber nachdem einige ein zumindest vergleichbares System wieder wollen müssen wohl oder übel Ideen her.

Probleme damit das alte System wieder aufzugreifen/einzubauen: 1) Das aktuelle System unterstüzt das Sammeln ganzer Sets, eine Veränderung hin zu Edelsteinen mit einem bestimmten Effekt und nur einem wirksamen (Altes System?) wäre dadurch hart, auch da schon eine menge Sets im Umlauf sind. 2) Was ist mit Diamanten? 3) Spieler der verschiedenen Städte könnten sich beschweren dass sie nicht den Stein bekommen dessen Effekt sie nutzen möchten (auch wenn ich denke dass jeder der Effekte nach dem alten System Klasse war und sich mit jedem Effekt ein Charakter weiterenwickeln und ausbauen liese)

Also hab ich herumgefragt und ein Kerl kam mit einer großartigen Idee die uns Edelsteine bescheren und 2 der 3 Probleme lösen würde (Danke Caldarion)

Die Idee wäre ein Set von Edelsteinen zu sammeln, und dieses zu einem Stein zusammenschmieden zu lassen dass einen Effekt eines der alten magischen Edelsteine hatt (die Qualität der Steine des Sets bestimmt die Qualität des Steines der herauskommt), die Steine könnte man an einem Altar oder bei einem der Schmiede für magische Edelsteine zusammensetzen lassen. Als Beispiel: Ein Stein der vier Winde (der den effekt der magische Amethysten vor dem VBU hätte), ich geh zu einem Altar oder Schmied und schwupps.... Ich hab einen Edelstein den ich in eine Waffe, Rüstung oder ein Schmuckstück sockeln kann. Aber... Die Fusion der Steine ist und der ausgewählte Effekt ist nicht mehr rückgängig zu machen. Hast du dir einen Stein der vier Winde machen lassen, dann hast du diesen bekommen und wirst ihn behalten und nicht mehr ummändern lassen können. Dies würde uns die alten Effekte der magischen Edelsteine wiederbringen, den Umlauf der vielen magischen Edelsteine (Stückzahl) unterstützen, und NIEMAND kann sich beschweren da ER selbst den EFFEKT des Steines beim schmieden wählt.

In der Hoffnung zumindest sinngemäß das ganze übersetzt zu haben

I hope that I have translated this at least in the right sence
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Miriam
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Miriam »

My suggestion would be: Not giving the stones a special power but a combination of item + stone.
The stone would keep their levels. The level implies the effeciency of a stone.

In combination with everyday items, the magic gem (wich can be added to thoses items by a smith) shows it's usefull power:
A magic gem (or several magic gems) in a sword makes the weapon stronger.
A magic gem (or several magic gems) in a shield increases the shields protection.
A magic gem (or several magic gems) in a bow makes you aim better or shoot faster.
A magic gem (or several magic gems) in a pickaxe makes it last longer or be more efficient.
A magic gem in clothes makes increases their quality.
ect.

A magic gem in juwelry could raise an attribute a bit.
Does anyone have a list of what jewlrey exists?
For example icebird amulet with a magical gem attached to it could increase the essence attribute.

This way there would be many ways to use magical gems and crafters could profit on them aswell as fighters.
----
Mein Vorschlag wäre: Nicht den Steinen spezielle Fähigkeiten zu geben, sondern einr Item+Stein Combination.
Die Steine würden ihre Level behalten, diese Zeigen die Effektivität des Steines an.

Verbunden mit alltäglichen Gegenständen (dies könnte ein Schmied erledigen) haben die magischen Steine großen Nutzen:
Ein magischer Stein (oder mehere) in einem Schwert macht die Waffe stärker.
Ein magischer Stein (oder mehere) in einem Schild schützt besser.
Ein magischer Stein (oder mehere) in einem Bogen lasst dich schneller schießen oder besser zielen.
Ein magischer Stein (oder mehere) in einer Spitzhacke, macht der Werkzeug länger haltbarer oder effizienter.
Ein magischer Stein (oder mehere) in einem Kleidungsstück erhöht die Qualitätt.
ect.

Ein magischer Stein als Schmuck verarbeitet könnte Attribute erhöhen.
Hat jemand eine Liste welche Arten von Schmuck wir ingame haben?
Z.B. ein Eisvogelamulett mit einem magischen Edelstein könnte das Essenzattribut erhöhen.

So hätte man verschiedne Erinsatzweisen für magische Steine und sowohl Handwerker wie auch Kämpfer profitieren davon.
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Mephistopheles
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Mephistopheles »

All of the old effects give this, and also this would not solve the issue of too many gems being circulated.
BUT
we could also consider Ufedhin's Idea to make the gems socketable in armor and crafting equipment, but this idea might take out jewelry because you cant fit 6 gems into a ring in rl.

read the effects of the old gems in my above links, the effects are quite extensive, from stat boosting to offering more defense, offense or even magic resistance (which will be very valuable to those warriors when magic comes back) the range of what can be done is really extensive making a wide range of possibilities to explore and to build up a character, right now any powergamer can be strong but with the gem system it will add a strategy element to fighting instead of simple brutes.
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GolfLima
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Re: Gem effects

Post by GolfLima »

sorry to say,

but i dont see a usefull magical effect for tools (at the old system)

1) diamond: the tools has a longer service live :arrow: every town has a "repair" NPC
2) ruby: more crafting talent :arrow: may be usefull, but not if you have mastered a craft
3) saphire (bluestone): increased quality of the tool :arrow: you can easy buy a perfect tool and it could be repaired
4) emerald: longer service life of the maked item :arrow: every town has a "repair" NPC
5) obsidian (blackstone). helpful for repairing things :arrow: every town has a "repair" NPC / you´re char. cant repair things
6) amethyst: work faster ( i know some using this effect - i never understand why) :arrow: you only get a small amount of time
7) topas: better quality of the item :arrow: may be usefull, but you have also a chance to make a perfect item without that (and as an advanced crafter you often make perfect items)

--> finally
"ruby" / "amethyst" / "topas" :arrow: could be a little bit usefull

--> may be the old effects were fine for

armor / weapons / magic (dont know what the effects can be at the NEW magic system) / jewelry

:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: we need a magical gem drain :!: :!: :!:
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GolfLima
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Re: Gem effects

Post by GolfLima »

@ Miriam
this jewelry we have ig at the moment:
(not sure if this is all but most of them)

ring of an archmage / diamond ring / topas ring / emerald ring / saphirring / obsidianring / ruby ring / amethyst ring / goldring

crown / diadem

charm of the icebird / diamond necklace / topas necklace / emerald amulet / saphir necklace / obsidian necklace / ruby necklace / amethyst necklace / amulet
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Mephistopheles
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Mephistopheles »

we wont need a gem drain if this system is implemented because you'll need a set of the 6 different gems (diamonds are kinda on hold gms/devs are still deciding what to do with them) to make a single gem with the effects of the old system.

Why arent the people wanting the old gem effects trying to come up with ideas? We can agree that the current system is bland and the old system was good, but there are bickers and no brainstorming. Lets try to make this work guys! Read my original post carefully and consider it, see what the flaws are see what can be better, lets give the devs a reason to put this in place, lets make things ig more interesting.

With the crafting there isnt much you can do with it.. if you have better ideas for crafting effects then say it please dont complain because it really gets nowhere quick. I made up this proposal so things can get figured out, maybe come up with other effects or other ideas on how exactly to implement it.
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Lord Arcia
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Lord Arcia »

1) diamond: While creating metal weapons from any craft, has a chance to use only half of the ingredients
2) ruby: Heavy Armor
3) saphire (bluestone): Jewelry
4) emerald: Medium Armor
5) obsidian (blackstone). Light Armor
6) amethyst: Clothing
7) topas: Woodworking

Bam.

Edit: It ain't gotta make sense, we're essentially playing "Wizards and Fairies" here. Besides, It's fun and I don't hear any better ideas for crafting gems.
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Mephistopheles
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Mephistopheles »

thats not a bad idea really. Thanks for giving an idea!

for combat the old effects I think are perfect, and this idea for crafting is good so crafters can make more things and at higher level gems (average or maybe higher) they'd get a chance to save some of the valuable resources like elements and merinium.

nice one :wink:
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Mephistopheles
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Mephistopheles »

So.. is this topic dead or what? To my understanding many older players wanted these gem effects back. An i believe it would make the combat system much more interesting than it is currently. Any feedback from devs or other players?
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Rincewind
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Rincewind »

A combat system that uses such the most raw items (only pro gamer can rely on it) to create tactical deepness is horrible. I would prefer other ways to give warriors more tactical movements.
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Estralis Seborian
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Estralis Seborian »

The old effects were buggy, horrible inbalanced and sometimes just strange. The new effect is rather straight forward, yet a little boring. It is a sound concept. Perhaps you can come up with something innovative to make this game attractive, rather than demanding old things back that made the game a mess?
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Lord Arcia
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Lord Arcia »

So long as Gems can only be put into weapons, things will continue to be lame. Can it be implimented so players can put them in armor too?
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Ufedhin
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Ufedhin »

Estralis Seborian wrote:The old effects were buggy, horrible inbalanced and sometimes just strange. The new effect is rather straight forward, yet a little boring. It is a sound concept. Perhaps you can come up with something innovative to make this game attractive, rather than demanding old things back that made the game a mess?

1)Leaving the weapon effects alone as they are .
2)Adding gems to armour to lessen the armours weakness to its harmfull weapon, for example light armour gemed reducing the negative effects of slashing weapons .
3)Adding gems to shields increase % chance to parry .
4)Jewlery once a suffient amount of high level gems are in place in the piece an attribute bonus(+1 for 50% ,+2 for 100% capped at 100%) to and only to stats of the non combatant type and only one of these enchanted jewelery item can be worn at one time and it only give the bonus to one stat ,dex,intel,essence,willpower.This aids the crafter adds the possibility of some extra magic protection(will power) to non magicians or increased magic ability for magicians(intell or ess').

Some idea's that address concerns in some other forums and yet gives the gems more versitilty
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Ufedhin
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Ufedhin »

Addition to the above ,
and only great jewlery works like Ice bird ,ring of the archmage ,level 100 stuff etc can recive the gems .
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Mephistopheles
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Mephistopheles »

hmm.. glad people are bringing things up. For the most part I can agree with Ufedhin except for the jewelry part. 50% and 100% are very high percentages to get gems and if its not even stackable then Im not sure if its all that worth it unless you have massive gems everywhere else and just have a ton of extra gems.

For armors it could increase overall defense and shields the chance to parry, these are pretty simple and very sound ideas. However the right effect for jewelry is hard to think of. Maybe only using one gem for jewelry? Like using an amythyst for amythyst ring, obsidian for an obsidian ring etc. but then what would be the exact effects? especially since magic diamonds are rare and special perhaps some very useful or powerful effect for magic diamond jewelry. Lets Brainstorm on the effects.

some Ideas
Obsidian: X percentage bonus to Melee like wrestling or using a weapon (less than what the gem bonus in a weapon.)
Saphire: X percentage to magic resistance
Ruby: X percentage to health, or health regen
Emerald: X percentage bonus to ranged weapons
Topaz: X percentage increase to magic damage (for mages whenever they come back)
Amythyst: x percentage increase in swing time, shoot time, or cast time
Diamond: ? Brainstorm ? must be good :P

these effects are small and should only be noticable if stacked or at high gems levels like average and higher. Just some ideas
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Manron
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Manron »

Mephistopheles wrote:hmm.. glad people are bringing things up. For the most part I can agree with Ufedhin except for the jewelry part. 50% and 100% are very high percentages to get gems and if its not even stackable then Im not sure if its all that worth it unless you have massive gems everywhere else and just have a ton of extra gems.

For armors it could increase overall defense and shields the chance to parry, these are pretty simple and very sound ideas. However the right effect for jewelry is hard to think of. Maybe only using one gem for jewelry? Like using an amythyst for amythyst ring, obsidian for an obsidian ring etc. but then what would be the exact effects? especially since magic diamonds are rare and special perhaps some very useful or powerful effect for magic diamond jewelry. Lets Brainstorm on the effects.

some Ideas
Obsidian: X percentage bonus to Melee like wrestling or using a weapon (less than what the gem bonus in a weapon.)
Saphire: X percentage to magic resistance
Ruby: X percentage to health, or health regen
Emerald: X percentage bonus to ranged weapons
Topaz: X percentage increase to magic damage (for mages whenever they come back)
Amythyst: x percentage increase in swing time, shoot time, or cast time
Diamond: ? Brainstorm ? must be good :P

these effects are small and should only be noticable if stacked or at high gems levels like average and higher. Just some ideas

The smaragd was always in tools, to make better stuff, so dont take all gems and make them just for fighting ;)
and if you say that ruby for health is, no worker needs health, cause workers dont need health in mines or in the wood (if they dont go deep inside).
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Uhuru
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Uhuru »

Ufedhin wrote: 1)Leaving the weapon effects alone as they are .
2)Adding gems to armour to lessen the armours weakness to its harmfull weapon, for example light armour gemed reducing the negative effects of slashing weapons .
3)Adding gems to shields increase % chance to parry .
4)Jewlery once a suffient amount of high level gems are in place in the piece an attribute bonus(+1 for 50% ,+2 for 100% capped at 100%) to and only to stats of the non combatant type and only one of these enchanted jewelery item can be worn at one time and it only give the bonus to one stat ,dex,intel,essence,willpower.This aids the crafter adds the possibility of some extra magic protection(will power) to non magicians or increased magic ability for magicians(intell or ess').

Some idea's that address concerns in some other forums and yet gives the gems more versitilty
Mephistopheles wrote:hmm.. glad people are bringing things up. For the most part I can agree with Ufedhin except for the jewelry part. 50% and 100% are very high percentages to get gems and if its not even stackable then Im not sure if its all that worth it unless you have massive gems everywhere else and just have a ton of extra gems.

For armors it could increase overall defense and shields the chance to parry, these are pretty simple and very sound ideas. However the right effect for jewelry is hard to think of. Maybe only using one gem for jewelry? Like using an amythyst for amythyst ring, obsidian for an obsidian ring etc. but then what would be the exact effects? especially since magic diamonds are rare and special perhaps some very useful or powerful effect for magic diamond jewelry. Lets Brainstorm on the effects.

some Ideas
Obsidian: X percentage bonus to Melee like wrestling or using a weapon (less than what the gem bonus in a weapon.)
Saphire: X percentage to magic resistance
Ruby: X percentage to health, or health regen
Emerald: X percentage bonus to ranged weapons
Topaz: X percentage increase to magic damage (for mages whenever they come back)
Amythyst: x percentage increase in swing time, shoot time, or cast time
Diamond: ? Brainstorm ? must be good :P

these effects are small and should only be noticable if stacked or at high gems levels like average and higher. Just some ideas
I prefer Uffe's approach to this, looking at non-combatant uses for jewelry first. Especially considering fighters already have weapons and we are looking to put them into armor and shields.

Uffe, the question is how to get the effect with the stones. We could do something like we have now, where all six stones are needed. In the ice bird or ring of the archmage essence and willpower is increased by a percentage depending on the the level of the stones, similar to what is happening now for the weaponry. (I say this just to keep it inline with current ingame) I say both the ice bird and ring of the archmage because they are both seen as items of magic. However, one of them could be used to improve essence and the other willpower, so they don't improve both. So a mage has to wear both to have a complete set to improve both. This would mean a lot of gemstones. Which means we need feedback from mages here. Should intelligence be considered at all?

As to the dexterity, is there another level 100 item or should we use a slightly lower level item in the same way? Should any of the other stats be considered? Just these ones or all of them? What is fair?

I think to get a 100% bonus in a stat, it should take a high level stone, not a +2, and it should take an entire set to stay in line with current gemstone usage in game. Please consider this. I would like to see it at a +10 myself but I'm willing to be reasonable and let everyone discuss that, however, all stats will be taken into account, if we choose to apply this elsewhere.

1-latent (1 latent)
2-limited (3 latent-to make one)
3-slight (9)
4-moderate (27)
5-average (81)
6-notable (243)
7-strong (729)
8-very strong (2,187)
9-unbelieveable (6,561)
10-unique (16,683)
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Ufedhin
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Ufedhin »

Yes what ever is decided i think we should stay inline as much aspossible with the current gem system.Glad someone else sees that the gems need to be used for non combatants aswell ,this in my opinion should be the very first new addition to the gem system ,fighters you have yours for now, let the non combatants have some use for magic gems before anything more is introduced.

This is the idea i had recently, The ring of the archmage and the ice bird must be given some effects these items are as costly and differcult to get made as any magic sword or axe etc .

However regarding gems ,
When using the gems in a item of jewelery one has to have a full set first (lets not worry about jewelery level ) then you get to choose what non combatant ability you want it to enhance ,Full set upto 50 % strength +1 ,full set 50% to 100% +2 (capped at +2)to one of these(intellegence,dexterity,willpower,essence) this may only be added to one piece of jewlery no two magic gemed jewelery items can be worn at the same time .Due to the effects on the mind ,the mind being influenced by more than one causes massive terrible headaches for example so its not done.
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Jupiter
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Jupiter »

I see no use in limiting any attribute raise to non-combat stats. If your only thought behind this is "So that warriors don't get an other thing!" that is kind flawed.
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Ufedhin
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Ufedhin »

Jupiter wrote:I see no use in limiting any attribute raise to non-combat stats. If your only thought behind this is "So that warriors don't get an other thing!" that is kind flawed.
No that not my thought at all! A warrior can very well wear an amulet with gems increasing will power for example to gain better magical defensive capabilities or one that enhances his dexterity if he attempts a craft or something to increase intellegence so he/she can do more than grunt at meetings .

It just an idea alternative to only using them in weapons "hence the warriors only benifit" at the present time,non combatants have little benifit from gems at the moment.
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Jupiter
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Jupiter »

But why limiting the effect onyl to certain attributes?

Generally, I am not quite sure about the inreasing attribute thing. It doesn't really fit with the idea of combing the gems. It seems to me that that will either lead to a situation where the effects is too small for the costs or too big.
I surely would like to see effects for crafters, too. But it is not easy to find good and usefull effects.
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Ufedhin
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Re: Gem effects

Post by Ufedhin »

I look at it in this way weapons can be gemed at present, shields hopefully one day, as well as armour ,these all fall into the area of physical combat.
Jewelery is not a typical physical combat item, therefore is more in the realm of the mind as the purpose of jewelery is to delight the mind, benifiting crafters ,scholars ,mages,alchemists,merchants etc.

I agree its not easy yet we must try for an idea.
Teflon
Posts: 938
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:53 pm

Re: Gem effects

Post by Teflon »

my first thoughts: work faster, skill better, produce better quality, become able producing rare items...
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