Archery

Here you can make and discuss suggestions to improve the game. / Hier kannst du Vorschläge einreichen und diskutieren um das Spiel zu verbessern.

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Ufedhin
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Re: Archery

Post by Ufedhin »

Strange then..i find the archery to work fine for my character :? True he had not shot an arrow in a long time untill recently ,yet he fells many beasties just fine. If he stands still for a while i get rivited to the spot untill i deselect my target (that needs fixing for sure) but the way around it is not to stand fixed and fire a large number of arrows , but to move in short moves this way my character fires a continuous flight of arrows to the target.( 84 ranged skill)
As the character is not really an archer and its just my opinion i will say no more lest i get shot by those worthies the current system displeases :lol: .
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themonk
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Re: Archery

Post by themonk »

Ufedhin wrote:Strange then..i find the archery to work fine for my character :? True he had not shot an arrow in a long time untill recently ,yet he fells many beasties just fine. If he stands still for a while i get rivited to the spot untill i deselect my target (that needs fixing for sure) but the way around it is not to stand fixed and fire a large number of arrows , but to move in short moves this way my character fires a continuous flight of arrows to the target.( 84 ranged skill)
As the character is not really an archer and its just my opinion i will say no more lest i get shot by those worthies the current system displeases :lol: .
Hi Uffe, yeah I think the moving method works really well with all aspects of IG fighting. Same applies to melee. I had alittle go with a sling and stones with my character, I also find moving helps also NPCs are more AI skilled so they try to surround you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2q3FJTFgtk :mrgreen:
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Achae Eanstray
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Re: Archery

Post by Achae Eanstray »

It looks much improved on the test server. Still quite a bit of delay for an unskilled char but at least they won't get ghosted with a freeze which was a big annoyance. The chars are always capable of running and shooting later. Hopefully will test with a skilled char when brought in game and the delay will improve.


PS One day I hope the hand movement thingie is changed to something more appropriate for archery..
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Jupiter
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Re: Archery

Post by Jupiter »

Achae Eanstray wrote:PS One day I hope the hand movement thingie is changed to something more appropriate for archery..
If you create the gfx.
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Achae Eanstray
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Re: Archery

Post by Achae Eanstray »

Jupiter wrote:
Achae Eanstray wrote:PS One day I hope the hand movement thingie is changed to something more appropriate for archery..
If you create the gfx.

Give me the specifics of what is needed i.e. size in pixels, how many pics to make a moving graphic etc and will give it a try or beg someone with 3D skills to! :D
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Jupiter
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Re: Archery

Post by Jupiter »

No idea, ask you might want to get in touch with nitram or vilarion. At least, the can tell you who to ask, I guess
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Leena
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Re: Archery

Post by Leena »

Do the developers hate archers this much!!!! Leena is level 83 using a level 80 bow with gems and could NOT kill a coffin crawler. It was done easily with a level 50 sword. The delays in the shooting we so great that once a lock was gotten the monster had already closed in for the attack. I will give you that each hit was stronger... but I would hate to try something harder.. say a level 3 monster...please .. please take pity on us that want to be archers. Each "fix"has made it much harder for an archer to survive... I am contemplating hanging up my bow... it has be come useless.. and rp wise Elves should be good archers. Just my thoughts. Leena
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Djironnyma
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Re: Archery

Post by Djironnyma »

Please watch your words. no developers hate any player. They give their leisure time to develop illarion and they do that indeed not because they hate anyone and want to harm him. So if the developers make a new gamefunction/fix you can be assure that they do it because they beliefe it will improve the game. If you believe its currently disbalanced formulate your critism objective. Anything else will just demotivate developers and change nothing.
Avariel

Re: Archery

Post by Avariel »

As far as I can see, there needs to be a balance in each skill, so nobody is in a disadvantage. When Avariel started, archery was almost omnipotent. My char could kill everything, without wearing armour. Also,a archer could kill every melee fighter, because they could run and shoot at the same time. The "shooting distance" and freeze stopped that. But the freeze sent archers to the cross regularly. Now the freeze is fixed and I am glad about that. The anoing long time to shoot an arrow will be fixed soon, I am sure. But we archers should not complain too loud, as long as the mages are left with nothing, their runes being useless. The devs are working miracles to keep a balance and make the game fun for everybody. When Avariel started, archers were too powerful, in comparance. At the moment, melee fighters are the most powerful.
Back on topic, thank you for taking the freeze away. I hope, the shooting time will be shortened soon.
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Mephistopheles
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Re: Archery

Post by Mephistopheles »

I have no idea why so many people have a problem with archery.. I tested a little with Ufedhin and archers are highly underestimated. In all things now there is a big emphasis on attributes so without the proper attributes a warrior/archer/mage would basically mean nothing. A proper archer with high skill vs a medium or light armored foe is hardly a match at all. I in heavy armor was damaged quite well by someone with 80 skill and 80 bow ungemmed and i myself wore 90 armor with 93 skill so why theres a problem i have no idea.. i see no problem with the archery system from testing it with another char.
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Achae Eanstray
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Re: Archery

Post by Achae Eanstray »

Archery is a little slow testing it with monsters that chase you. If you want to do archery alone you will wind up running more then killing because monsters run faster then you can aim yet, the distance you can shoot is fairly long so it is possible to get a certain distance, not be chased and be able to shoot some arrows..it just takes a little practice. Those monsters that run over a long distance to get to you.. you might as well forget without a melee shield with you.

This for skill 83 or so using a gemmed bow. I have yet to test a higher skill though I suspect still just slightly too slow without a "meat shield" as someone once called it i.e. go with a group or go with a melee fighter. Archery mixed with a melee fighter can strengthen the combination where if working as a team can be quite nice since the melee fighter is not very good alone either.

Suggestion: Give it a little time i.e. a couple of months then if the "aim" time still seems too long, post a proposal to make it slightly shorter along with how that proposal will help the game.
Annabeth
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Re: Archery

Post by Annabeth »

So I tested the new archery in the arena. While I see no troubles vs monsters, I do however see some when it comes to potential engine pvp (not the kind where players get chances to emote, but where they are out to PK). I love how the freeze is removed, and how it is replaced with a wait that you can interrupt at any time. While the wait is no trouble against monsters, I could take on up to level 7 monsters in the arena just like I could before, that is only because the monster AI makes them, well, dumb. A player controlled character will charge you. It won't walk around aimlessly until it spots you while you shoot from behind a statue, and then get confused again when you move to another position. The player will just constantly run up to you and hit you. The six "hands" wait will that way give archers no chance to defend themselves if attacked by a player, as the player will just run up and slash them down before they even get in a hit. The possibility of someone making their intentions of attacking you clear from max range allowing you to get in a single hit before you die, is very slim.
(Of course keep in mind that I mean people of the same skill level. However what sense does it make that archers can only win a fight if they are double or maybe even more of the melee warrior in stats/skills?)
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Jupiter
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Re: Archery

Post by Jupiter »

Archers will ALWAYS suck against other meele using characters. If the aimign time is lowered, you would maybe have the chance to make one and in the best case two hits. After that you got to run. Remember, as soon as the target stands next to you, you can't shoot at him anymore - but he can hit you. But that has nothing to do with the recent changes. That has been the case since the launch of the VBU.
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nathi
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Re: Archery

Post by nathi »

hej

to explain what Leena complained, it was the "six hand" delay time after the last update. During this waiting time the char has to stand still, in this time the monster attacks and the archer has to move. Than the waiting time starts again.. monster attacks and archer moves again… means the archer is nearly unable to shoot. This was frustrating. I self thought yesterday "is this really the new archer system?" I complained myself in the chat, I said my excuse to Jupiter for that, and want to repeat it hereby, because I did not understand in all. Very nice is, that the archer do not freeze in motion now, thank you very much for this. But the waiting time has to adjust to a fair level

lg nathi po Deanna
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GolfLima
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Re: Archery

Post by GolfLima »

habe heute versucht gegen einen "Ork" & einen "vergamelten Sumpfhorror" den Bogen (Distanzwaffen 88 / Elfenkurzbogen) einzusetzen -> ohne Erfolg

1) entweder die "Ziele" sind außer Reichweite bevor man den Pfeil abschießen kann

oder

2) die "Gegner" sind an meinem Char. heran und verwickeln Ihn in einen Nahkampf

der Versuch einen vernünftigen Abstand für einen Pfeilschuß herzustellen schlägt damit permanent fehl

:arrow: BITTE die "Wartezeit" (zum Zielen) anpassen
Annabeth
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Re: Archery

Post by Annabeth »

I agree though, the aiming timer is way too lengthy.
It will be shorten with the next update
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GolfLima
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Re: Archery

Post by GolfLima »

seems NPC-archers have no DELAY :evil:

(i think they shot 3 or 4 times where you can only shot once)
Annabeth
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Re: Archery

Post by Annabeth »

Annabeth wrote:
I agree though, the aiming timer is way too lengthy.
It will be shorten with the next update
so uh.. did Jupiter or someone else accidentally click edit instead of quote when replying? O_o Half my message is missing and was replaced with the other half quoted and that reply...
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Jupiter
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Re: Archery

Post by Jupiter »

Mh. Yeah, I hit edit instead of quote. Sorry for that.
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GolfLima
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Re: Archery

Post by GolfLima »

elven mage <---> Char.

1) fast teleporting of the mage <---> Char. can´t mark the mage as enemy
2) fast archering of the mage <---> you can´t approach the mage due to 1), ... you will be hit fast and often from arrows
:arrow:
you have to run away as fast as possible or visit Cherga :evil:
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Tinuva Geogroda
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Re: Archery

Post by Tinuva Geogroda »

GolfLima wrote:elven mage <---> Char.

1) fast teleporting of the mage <---> Char. can´t mark the mage as enemy
2) fast archering of the mage <---> you can´t approach the mage due to 1), ... you will be hit fast and often from arrows
:arrow:
you have to run away as fast as possible or visit Cherga :evil:
Took us quite a few minutes with like 5 guys to kill the mage. He just kept teleporting everywhere.
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Jupiter
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Re: Archery

Post by Jupiter »

That is a problem haveing nothing to do with archery in particular. The teleporting of monsters is just messed up.
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Uhuru
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Re: Archery

Post by Uhuru »

In terms of archery, nobody discusses what it is like to learn it from scratch as a new character. It is good the shooting speed will be increased, but even still, how many arrows will be shot in a 10 min period? How many will a new character actually land in that time frame? How much will be learned? With this long shot time we have now, my new character shot only 16 and landed only 8. Learned nothing in 10 min. No, that isn't a long time, but it is depressing. Over an hour of constant gameplay, that's landing 48 at best if we work on an average? So, if you double the speed, which is unlikely, she may land up to 96 in an hour. So an hour of gameplay and she may learn a level, maybe 2. And she has to buy arrows from a vendor, which is seriously expensive.

So, the big picture on speed and learning? Is it working well and will the increase work well for learning?
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Jupiter
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Re: Archery

Post by Jupiter »

Uhuru wrote: in a 10 min period [...] my new character shot only 16
That would be 37,5 seconds per shoot. Even with the movements of enemies that is extremly low. I don't know what you did, but you wasted a lot of time.
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Rincewind
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Re: Archery

Post by Rincewind »

I allways wondered... does your armor-class influnce the speed?
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Jupiter
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Re: Archery

Post by Jupiter »

No
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Uhuru
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Re: Archery

Post by Uhuru »

Jupiter wrote:
Uhuru wrote: in a 10 min period [...] my new character shot only 16
That would be 37,5 seconds per shoot. Even with the movements of enemies that is extremly low. I don't know what you did, but you wasted a lot of time.
Yes, enemies kept running up to her, she had to move quite a lot, then reset for a shot, then move again and reset again. There was so much wasted time where no shots were taken at all. You are right, that's a long time per shot.
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Velisai
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Re: Archery

Post by Velisai »

It has already been said that the aiming time will be reduced. Now it's only a question of how much. I propose a shot should take exactly one second to prepare. That is completely sufficient to stop chars from running and shooting at the same time, but doesn't force them to abort every second attempt at firing an arrow. Also, although I know it doesn't matter alot, it's much more realistic than what we have now. The damage needs to be adjusted to that frequency of course. Any objections?
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Achae Eanstray
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Re: Archery

Post by Achae Eanstray »

I think if you play an archer in other games you will find that same transition time.. approximately a second seems to work well.
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Uhuru
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Re: Archery

Post by Uhuru »

37 seconds per shot was extremely aggravating. All the monsters running up to her well before she could get a shot off made it impossible for her to use the bow with any practicality and she had to give it up until the timing is changed.

And archer has to be able to move quickly, steady their stance, prepare a shot, take aim, fire, and move again if necessary. They need to be agile to do so. I don't think 1 second to shoot is unrealistic, especially for a learned archer. Standing there while the enemy approaches and attacks them is just not going to work, taking 3 second or more to prepare and aim seems too long in my opinion.
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