Adjust influnce of Constitution and Strength

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Post by Rincewind » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:41 pm

Adjust influnce of Constitution and Strength

I like to note that I got a little issue with attribute strength, which seems to have a big influne on distance fighting - (attackpower). I can understand it's about how heavy the bow can be pulled but archering should be more about perception and dexterity. Strength is much to important in my view and experiance in real life.

A bigger issue is the influnce of constitution on the recieved injuries/damage. It troubles me hard enough to regenerate but even with almost maxed skill my char looses every direct confrontation after a few hits. Strong monsters usually need two hits, while other characters take hits like a punchbag.

I'm aware this effects might be the intention of the dev who created it and the char which tested it got really low stats(8,7), but I want to ask: Why do we have 4 different weapon stiles while all of them use/need the same attributes? Wasn't it Illarions intention to create a system, where there's a fitting weapon(class) for everyone? Or at least a chance to get moderate results? The current situation is - if you want to fight you need the attributes of a traditional warrior. And with this pack you are succesfull with any weapon you choose. Wouldn't you prefer a oppurtunity to play succesfull even with different stats?

Therefore I suggest to lower the influnce of those two mandatory attributes on recieved damage in generall and created damage while archering.

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Post by Djironnyma » Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:02 pm

Re: Adjust influnce of Constitution and Strength

Hi Rince - as you have mentioned the fighting system have big problems at the moment. Thats why Flux rebuilding it / build a new one. Even if i doesnt know what exactly will change i suppose to wait until its done. Feedback for balancing it is indeed welcome (and needed ;), if the new fighting system is on the game server.

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Post by Athian » Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:18 pm

Re: Adjust influnce of Constitution and Strength

I don't mean to rain on Djironnyma's parade but please feel free to discuss however you like.There is no need to wait for feedback or not give your ideas here. The proposal board can of course be used as a place to discuss potential changes. Just do not expect that all or any of your discussions will guarantee some sort of result. As Djironnyma is speaking towards, we hope that everyone will give any future updates a try before sniping at them^^ (though you may not always know when they're coming).

That said, from what I've heard of the coming update the changes being made to the system are different then the the attribute influence that rincewind is mentioning. Its not particularly that strength and con are the problem, its the excess amount that has been placed onto the monsters, and the fact that skills play a much less important role then attributes in the games current meta. This is partly the reason why your fully armored maxed out warrior with highest grade shield/weapon still gets hit by(and occasionally parried by) dogs and foxes, angry chickens etc. In some sense this was done intentionally so that even the best warriors could be overpowered by numbers, unfortunately it was implemented with all the finesse of a bull in a china shop.

As far as monsters, the concept as stated sometime in the past was to make group play ideal for new illarion, which frankly the current game does not. The classic concept of party play is that members of the group each bring different aspects to the party. You have your tanks to sponge damage, your damage dealers to dish it out, and your support to provide healing and utility to the group. Unfortunately, the current illarion only has damage dealers. One day of course we will have the ability to create full and versatile parties but I think it was a backwards idea introduce 'party-play' monsters without having the parties in question to take them on. Then having players wait for what, intuitively thinking, should have come first.

Even If we did have said parties I still find the damage monster have to be a bit excessive, especially with skills playing a minimal role in the current meta. Many monsters have abhorrent amounts of strength(2-3+ times that of a player) at their disposal, and currently their chances of hitting you the 3-6 times in secession they need to kill you very quickly is extremely high.

I would propose two ideas to help mitigate this issue.

The first is to again increase the success rates of combat skills(specially those related to defense). This should effect players who thrive on skills more then attributes while not really harming monsters who will still get their large attribute pool anyway.

Secondly currently illarion monsters come in four flavors.

1. Can't kill you (when properly skilled and equipped)
2. Can kill you if they get 1-2 hits first (so they feel almost 'luck based when fighting)
3. Kite-or-die (if you aren't good at "shoot and scoot" or melee "hit and run" you die)
4. insta-pwn (hits you so fast/hard that you barely have time to react)

The common factor of the latter three monsters is again the thinking that all tough monsters need to deal huge damage...I would like to lose the 'when in doubt add more damage' way of thinking and go with something different.

I propose a different monsters with a sort of classification archetype in mind relative to the skill required for taking them on.

Tank: low damage very high life high/defensive skills.
Glass cannon: high damage high accuracy, low life/defensive
Bruiser: High life, high damage, low attack speed, relatively low accuracy.
Balanced: jack-of-all trades, being relatively even in all aspects.

Basically consider what the monster/creatures role would be IF it were in a party of its own and proceed from there. (Congratulations if you made it through this text wall)

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