Entrails for bows instead of thread

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Thu May 09, 2019 9:23 am

Entrails for bows instead of thread

Dear Illarionites,

recently, it was brought up on Discord that the crafting recipes for bows should require entrails instead of thread. Main reason is realism as medieval bows had strings made from guts rather than wool.

This change would affect the follow script:

https://github.com/Illarion-eV/Illarion ... ng.lua#L36

There are pros and cons to this proposal. I would like to hear the opinion of the community. The effort for the change is minimal even though we need to keep in mind that realism is not a design goal.

Please note that we cannot add any new items to the game at this moment.


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Post by Brightrim » Thu May 09, 2019 12:35 pm

Re: Entrails for bows instead of thread

A carpenter won't be forced to learn shearing to get his bow-strings anymore.
Instead having to use a weapon to kill animals to get them by himself, though most characters end up having some kind of weapon skill no matter their focus, anyways.
Potential trade between carpenters and shearers/tailors would be replaced with potential trade with butcher/hunter type characters.

So the RP potential around it is shifted, but not removed, and it'd be forcing people less when it comes to picking up additional skills due to a lack of players.

Entrails are also, afaik, only used for sausages atm and otherwise thrown away. This change would fix that, while thread would still be as useful as ever, it being the main resource of tailoring.

Beyond all that, while realism isn't the focus of the dev team, in this case it will do anything but hurt RP.
Archers and carpenters alike can reference medieval bows and their entrail strings from online sources, and use this in their RP to add more life to it. Whether it be their emotes of the crafting process, bow maintenance, pulling off string or the characters own spoken knowledge, wherever it fits.

So I'd say the change doesn't really have any negatives.

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Fri May 10, 2019 5:44 am

Re: Entrails for bows instead of thread

Yes, I also see the biggest impact in the change of reliance on other crafts/actions. While thread is a product usually coming from Cadomyr or Runewick, entrails are best got hold of in Runewick or Galmair. Those two latter cities also feature woodworking as a supported craft. On the one hand, this means Galmair becomes more self-sustaining and on the other Cadomyr might lose some trade opportunity. But honestly, I do not think there is any significant trade for basic products like thread between city members.

Are there other opinions? Would players be estranged if entrails become an ingredient of bows (and likely also instruments with strings)?

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Post by Rincewind » Fri May 10, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Entrails for bows instead of thread

Since Entrails are not used for anything (beside of sausages??) - and I fail to trade those at all - I would welcome this change.

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Post by GolfLima » Fri May 10, 2019 7:44 pm

Re: Entrails for bows instead of thread

* Entrails for bows sounds good for me -> and is more "realistic" as thread
* is good for entrails - there is not many use for entrails

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Post by Charlotte-ate-wilbur » Sat May 18, 2019 8:39 pm

Re: Entrails for bows instead of thread

I want to say that basic animals like cows, deer, rabbits, dogs, etc should drop entrails, as of now they do not.

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Post by Babanta » Wed May 29, 2019 11:32 am

Re: Entrails for bows instead of thread

In my opinion, I think I'm pretty cool with how everything looks now. Though any new innovation would be highly welcome.

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Post by Tialdin » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:10 am

Re: Entrails for bows instead of thread

"Die natürlichen Materialien für Bogensehnen sind äußerst vielfältig. Beliebte pflanzliche Fasern sind z.B: Brennnessel, Lein, Hanf, Ramie, Baumwolle, Kapok (Dschungelbaumwolle), Bambusfasern, und sogar Holzstreifen (bei Chinesischen Kugel-Armbrüsten). An tierischen Fasern wurden verwendet: Tiersehne, Darm, Rohhaut (ungegerbte Haut), seltener Leder, eventuell Haare, Seide, selten vielleicht sogar Muschelseide."

Bogensehnen nur auf Eingeweide zu beschränken ist unrealistisch, die Grundstoffe sind sehr vielfältig
und etliche haben nichts mit dem schlachten vorn Tieren zu tun.

Früher wurde Garn aus Sibanac oder Gedärm hergestellt, das wäre als Grundstoffe BEIDES realistisch für Bogensehnen. Die Änderung auf Garn aus Wolle kam erst mit dem VBU ist aber im hinblick auf "Baumwolle" (siehe oben) wohl auch als Bogensehne vertretbar (Wie andere Tierhaare ja auch). Nur Gedärm als Rohstoff beim Bogenbau ist aufgrund anderer Erwägungen in Illarion meiner Meinung nach NICHT sinnvoll.

Quelle der Materialien:

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Post by CipherZero » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:29 pm

Re: Entrails for bows instead of thread

It's true that it would make sense and finally give the Entrails some sort of utility, but Esteralis Seborian's argument addresses the main issue: it would need a massive rework in the economical and game balance as a non- negligible part of the industry would go from one city to another... I'd vote for keeping the game as is so far, it'd be better to use Entrails for bows, but I'm satisfied with the economic system of the game and wouldn't want to lose that.

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