Illarion in Review

Everything about Illarion that fits nowhere else. / Alles über Illarion was inhaltlich in kein anderes Board passt.

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Snazug
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Illarion in Review

Post by Snazug »

http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/ ... -illarion/

Edit: Realize there is a "Promotion" board, not sure maybe this posting belongs more there?

Not sure anybody else stumbled across this article (see link above, a little old but), thought it was an interesting read as far as from the eyes of a new player. I will say, as far as experimenting with the new client and making some attempts to promote the game a year or so ago with a few colleagues of mine who showed a great interest in RP: The tutorial island is what had caused them to not necessarily "lack interest in the game itself"...but was at times "tedicous enough" to where if there was any sort of questionable action or say if something wasn't understood, they'd simply lose motivation, quit the game and throw their attention elsewhere. Otherwise even with a completed tutorial, to run around and attempt to track the six other players to get an idea of the roleplaying aspect of Illara, makes newcomers hard to stay. In the beginning days (not to so much jump back in the past as many always seem to do here and there) but it was much more interesting to have the ability to log into the ingame atmosphere and almost instantly see ten other players communicate, working, etc. That's what I think made many stay and would later identify (i.e. after learning a few simple activities, like making fire, basic cooking, running around Eliza's shop) go along and learn good RP from good RP'ers.

Not in any way trying to display any sort of criticism toward the development or current status of Illarion here or expect changes because it has come a long way and looks appealing.

I simply wonder how many new players sign up just to go through the same experiences and thus, quit the game before they truly realize just how great the game is. My goal lately is to try to promote the project more and try to introduce the game to those who seek an unique MMORPG, especially since I'm currently on a semi-"vacation" from the workplace and (at least where I am from) winter is on the way, which is a perfect time for gamers alike to browse through different possibilities as far as wanting to play something new.

It would be superb to have a much larger player database. I realize this is always in mind from within the community and has been brought up from time to time again and again but going to put in as much effort as I can. Let's make this part of reality. Thoughts? Sorry for the lengthy post. ;)
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wolfsword
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by wolfsword »

It's hard. At the same time, if we do want to have more players than we normally do / whatever we average at, we have to make it a bit more accessible to more people and easier to pick up (or not, but the former is more likely to work than chance). I can understand people who don't normally RP totally dropping the game if they get frustrated with noobia/the tutorial. I feel that's a necessity, to cut the chaff - not that it eliminates all bad roleplayers, but it does help some.

Honestly, I feel we might have to touch some of the other RP'ing communities - forums, RP chats, IRCs, etc. Granted, a lot of the time the people there are pretty much mary sues of all different shapes and sizes, but with a little encouragement you can make okay roleplayers out of them. I'm here, for one :mrgreen:

That's how I feel.
Ranwyln
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Ranwyln »

Hm, i think its hard to say why people stay or why not. I arrived on Gobaith, cause i was looking for a free rpg in german with "forced" rp.
The beginning was like oh shit its hard to do anything like crafting, fighting (i died loads of times even on the simplest monsters), magic was for an exclusive circle only (at least it looked like that from the forums to me), standing around and enjoying the graphic was no option too, the groups i met at Bane were doing nice rp but it was really hard to "become" part of it, cause mainly they were talking bout old stories and/or i didnt had a clue bout what they talk. I did not even had a background story for my char cause i thought not worth the work first look if ye want to play it (and i guess a lot of people do it that way when they try Illarion out). Only advantage i had, was, that i am used to games with weird controls Ultima shards/D4O (eng T4C), so i said to myself give it a try and bite yourself through it.
First glance into the game i got when a player whose name i lost took the time to explain some stuff in OOC to me how do things work and so on (noobia mainly annoyed me when i arrived here after the VBU, everything spammed with the bubbles they always saying the same, was leaving it without looking much into it).

Main problem in my eyes why new players not stay is:

- lack of other players
- pretty complicated crafting system (at least till you look through it its complicated and you depend much on other professions if you dont learn them all which can/is be frustrating with low playerbase)
- i still do not find everytime into roleplay cause there are loads of groups that mainly play together, where it is hard (at least for me) to join in
- no conflict wanted: nearly no pvp, no town conflicts, if you start conflicts you get bannished, thrown out of towns, end up as outlaw, which from the system in my eyes are not wanted (want the Temple back, nearly had no involvement with em at Gobaith but heard so much stories bout them that my char was afraid when someone mentioned he would be partof it)
- lot of players are used to everything must be faster, easier, more powerful, i am the hero and so on
-it takes ages to learn something (skill), i personally dont have a problem with that, but i guess a lot of people do (and maybe still are good rpers)
- for me no real decision is made what Illa wants to be: a massive multiplayer (with grinding/farming and so on, thats the way you actually have to skill), or a only rp with support of the engine and a memberbase of a few 100 players

How to maybe help new Players to stay:

-maybe a big hint where to find the forum and that it is a really important part of the game at the login screen
-hints bout the gods,lore ect. at the login screen (i normally dont read the hints/advices that are in the chatbox after logging in)
-maybe some faq movies instead or in addition to noobia (how to craft, how to fight, explanation of some of the basic rules and so on)
-a real introduction/guidance explaining game mechanics (crafting, fighting, gem effects, the mysterious MC and so on) cause its a pain in the ass to look through the forums for em, or to ask other players ingame in a mix of ooc and rp. I for myself would like to know such things and found some out due to asking in rp but much more in ooc talks. And i have to admit sometimes i just dont have the time/mood whatever to explain things the second, third, fourth, or more time to new players so advising them ooc to a link would be much more easier.
-probably as wolfsword mentioned, we will have to rob members of the playerbase of other rpgs, cause i think it will be very very hard for Illarion to get "Noobs (rp wise)" and stay for long

just a few thoughts PO Ranwyln
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Azure Lynch
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Azure Lynch »

I was a lucky one I got started when hexis invited me over to play. That was pretty vbu but then I was all about halo. Which in hine sight before I accidently deleted him krand would have been a dwarf to reckon with. But hey so when the vbu came out I gave it another try and noobia aggravated me so I skipped it. And crashed head long. I am one of those people to figure it out through tasks and just doing it. I know when my brother in law was logged in before his comp crashed in noobia I went to help him and so did someone else did to telling me he got this which was fine except my brother in-law said he wouldn't come out of character to explain things so it aggravated him and WS about to log off when it crashed. So a suggestion on noobia come out of character they might be able to understand it. Just a thought.
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Alytys Lamar
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Alytys Lamar »

-a real introduction/guidance explaining game mechanics (crafting, fighting, gem effects, the mysterious MC and so on) cause its a pain in the ass to look through the forums for em, or to ask other players ingame in a mix of ooc and rp. I for myself would like to know such things and found some out due to asking in rp but much more in ooc talks. And i have to admit sometimes i just dont have the time/mood whatever to explain things the second, third, fourth, or more time to new players so advising them ooc to a link would be much more easier.
This is something I would suggest greatly, too. Didn't we have in the past sort of a WIKI planned ?
I mean nearly every game uses this to explain how things work.
People start to play and then leave cause its to much effort to ask and found it out on forum.
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Aegohl
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Aegohl »

I believe the problem in the past was that the wiki became crowded with inaccuracies and rarely updated to reflect the current state of the game. In the end it was decided that the wiki represented the game worse than the lack thereof.
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Estralis Seborian
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Estralis Seborian »

It is indeed true that we have a promotion board. Everyone is invited to contribute to the promotion - write (honest!) reviews, publish information about Illarion on other sites or just tell your friends!

If there is anything we can improve about Noobia, just tell us! I think the current state is quite fine, at least much, much better than what Beau Hindman had to suffer from. The review hit us quite hard, because we were right in the process to finalise the VBU and once again had to realise how bad Illarion was. Take this review and show it to players who say "In the past, everything was better..." :-P.

I turned one of the proposals into a Mantis ticket: http://illarion.org/mantis/view.php?id=10495 If there is anything else we can realise without having to reinstall a Wiki that failed utterly, we can do it! Keep in mind that our game mechanics should be easy to understand and simple; hence, before we write a big text to explain oddities, we should remove the oddities from the game and replace them with unique yet conclusive features!
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Sarai Flysse
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Sarai Flysse »

I think 99% of the time people stay for people. If I find a new player who has a basic understanding of rp I will try and drop what I'm doing and involve them with my character. Being nice and explaining engine things is all very well but it won't hook people onto the game. Illarion is fully dependent on the people you meet and whats going on ig at the time.

Noobia is nice, and I appreciate its hard to talk bad about aspects in which a ton of work has been put in, but I think its mostly irrelevant when it comes to attracting new players.
Ranwyln
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Ranwyln »

I was more thinking bout a short introduction into the game mechanics, nothing like a wiki.

More like

Mental Capacitiy - Is used to xxx
Armour Heavy: good against, bad against
Carpentry: Use X + x = (not all the receipes just a short intro)
Magic Gems : gained from taxes and some monsters for....

doesnt need to be more than a paper you can print out so you can look on it when needed.
If i play a game i like such infos, cause if i dont like the way to play it for pure RP i can go into a text chat and dont need a supporting engine around it.
Dont want exact formulas in there.

And yes people stay for people but Illarion is more than just running around and talking (thats why everyone waits for a waiting magic system ;), and if you play for weeks and than found out you messed up your char for what you were planning to do with it, can be frustrating.
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Sarai Flysse
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Sarai Flysse »

I disagree with that approach, because it suggests to new players that the game is about things it isn't. Basically you are trying to attract a crowd who for the most part won't enjoy the game or want to stay anyway. And alienating people who might end up enjoying the roleplay aspect. The more 'professional' you try and make Illarion appear, the more it loses its mystique and edge over other games.
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Estralis Seborian
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Estralis Seborian »

While I cannot agree with the wording, I would like to extract the point:

Illarion has to be a unique game. A game that offers features and aspects no other game can offer. These features must attract a well defined target audience that is sufficiently big enough to justify a multi player online game. Keep in mind that "not attracting" players cannot be a goal. We need to have the goal to attract as many potential players of the target audience as possible. Many of us were lucky to find players that helped us during the first few hours. Others were not so lucky; and left because the controls were so clumsy. Were they bad roleplayers? We will never know.

All in all, we need to make the start to the game as smooth as possible. For everyone. So, the less strange things and obstacles there are to overcome, the better. You can see such obstacles in Beau Hindman's video. That game was also Illarion. An Illarion we should not wish back...

But again, our game mechanics should not fill an almanac. They should be intutive. If we need an almanac, we do something very wrong.
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Kamilar
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Kamilar »

One thing that would be helpful (at least from my perspective) is an assortment of lists. I spent a lot of time and frustration trying to figure out some very basic things and many of them I'm still trying to figure out.

A few suggestions:
~ A list of heavy, medium and light armor name and level (there is actually a decent list of heavy armor but it's in an RP post buried deep in the forum)
~ A list of weapon type, name, level and whether it is craftable
~ A list of crafts that can be done in which towns
~ An accurate graphical representation of what clothing items actually look like on the characters
~ A list of map types by small, average, big, giant
~ A list of craftable potions
~ A list of minimum stat requirements for the various classes

That's all I can think of right now but it's a pretty good chunk of the things that I personally find frustrating with Illarion.
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Jupiter
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Jupiter »

Kamilar wrote:~ A list of craftable potions
I am strictly against this. This is clearly ingame knowledge to me.
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Kamilar
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Kamilar »

Jupiter wrote:
Kamilar wrote:~ A list of craftable potions
I am strictly against this. This is clearly ingame knowledge to me.
Often time when people say FOIG it's because they just don't want others to know. There was a similar discussion over which armor is effective against which weapon and which monsters. Some players had figured it out and wanted to guard that information to maintain some elite position. If it's 100% possible to find that information in game without other players, it's alright to keep it in game. If you have to beg other players for that information as the only way to get it, we have a problem. I don't know which is the case to be honest.
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Jupiter
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Jupiter »

The armour thing is a technical question. There is no intuitive way to know it. This information HAs to come form ooc. Testing it is no proper option, in my eyes.
If it's 100% possible to find that information in game without other players, it's alright to keep it in game.
If you are not an alchemist, you need other characters to know that (not other players, I differ there). And I don't see whats wrong with that. I think it is very boring if you can look everything ooc up, that you can also find out ingame if you invest the time to find other people. I call that roleplay. And if every alchemist refuses to tell you something sepcific, then you have a very good rhing to rp with ("The alchemists have a secret agenda!").
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Kamilar
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Kamilar »

There's a difference between making a list of what's possible and giving away all the formulas. If it's alright to list armor and weapons, why not potions?
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Estralis Seborian
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Estralis Seborian »

Honestly, I would expect such information in the game, not outside. Like, if a feature is not conclusive and intelligible, it won't become more clear just because there is a list on some website. In other words: If the alchemist recipes (or any other necessary information) are not clearly shown in the game (book, inscription, quest,...), then we do something wrong that cannot be fixed by adding information to the website.

However, the website could show some teasers or some list of features. This would be very attractive to new players and would also make clear what this game can offer. Since "roleplaying" is not a feature and there are 10237 games out there that are RP enforced or have RP enforced servers, we cannot rely on this aspect alone. Bluntly spoken, you cannot sell a car by saying that it is a car. That's just obvious and who wants to buy a bike won't buy a car. We have to make Illarion stand out by unique selling arguments no other game can offer. Of course, we cannot compete with major AAA titles in any way, but for niche audiences, indie games like Illarion can and should offer exactly what they cannot find in AAA titles. And yes, the can find roleplaying there.
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Kamilar
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Kamilar »

Having the lists in game would be even better.
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Ufedhin »

I agree totally with Jupiter and Estralis as an alchemist one of the greatest periods of fun i had was uncovering the mysteries ,as i did this before anyone else after VBU i had no one but myself to rely on it was totally FUN!

Alchemy is a secret mysterious art, for the sake of those of us who play alchemists may this never change! it is not for the uninitiated to know anything about the great art ,that is as it should be.Nor can a list other than what exists ingame already be possible ,i completely refuse to give up a list of the myriad of potions of my own creation!
If you have the will and drive to be an alchemist you can easly find out all you need to know (too easy in my opinion )in game .
As i greatly enjoy the fact some things are mysterious and secret i will strive against the faction that wants it all without effort,how utterly dull.

NO SECRETS TO THE UNINITIATED!

(The point i make is ,is that a list of potions is not really possible as each alchemist has his /her batch of personal brews,nor can i see how removing mystery benificial to increasing player numbers ,fantasy games, good ones should contain secrects and mysteries.)
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Azuros »

I agree that these secrets shouldn't really be revealed to everyone, but I have to disagree with Ufedhin. I don't want to be negative about it, because I know a lot of work went into designing it. In the end, I don't think alchemy is fun. Sorry, but I don't want to have to do a math puzzle so that my character can create a potion. Not to mention that to simplify the puzzle at all, you need to use herbs that you can only find completely randomly by exploring the (now quite dangerous) map.

I've played my druid Azuros on and off for years now, and I've always really enjoyed druid RP. However, this system is too much for me, sorry!
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Caynwyn »

As a fellow druid, I'll have to agree with Azuros. Even the last puzzle was too much for me. A few "gave" my char some recipes she could use to RP with but I wish to RP not solve puzzles however agreeing some may enjoy it. I have very much enjoyed the druid medico and potions of old.. with the new perhaps some simple easy ones for those interested and a list of what can be done with more effort?
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Aegohl »

Obviously we want player interaction and no skill should be easy to gain alone. The problem is when players in the know are able to be not just teachers but outright gatekeepers.This happened in the past with the old magic teaching system. I don't have a druid and don't know the current system so I don't know if this is the case with the druid system, but that is where the line should be drawn.
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Estralis Seborian »

From what I was told, it is rather complicated to turn the "recipes" that are given by three NPCs somewhere into real recipes as in "add three donf blades, two steppe ferns, and four desert capsule". Players seem to use spreadsheets for this. While I am fine with some mystery and challenge, this seems to be pretty weird. I also do not play an alchemist and when I tried to test the system, I was told to go away by that thinker stone, most probably because of some attribute that was too low.

But let us not beat one horse that was not even born when the original review of the 1st post was created. Let us keep in mind the real issues - the first hour. This first hour starts when the player starts to look for a game like Illarion. Can he find it on another website or Google? Most probably not. Does he consider the homepage to contain an appealing game? Not really. Can he download and install the game easily? Maybe. Is creating a character easy and straight forward? Hell, no! Is the first login easy and the tutorial helpful? Probably. Can the new player meet other players in the game and knows immediately what to do? To be improved...

Please provide concrete feedback for such aspects. The advanced features also need attention, but this is something us developers usually have in mind. But we are no new players nor "returners", so we cannot really judge the points above.
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Ufedhin »

Im sorry but i digress again in order to answer the alchemy posts.I dont agree at all! in fact if you cant work out the craft dont play an alchemist/druid its that simple .Why should a great craft and system have its standards lowered to elementry level just because a few cant be bothered? im sorry do the work or do something else and leave well alone what others find exciting and rewarding.
Post VBU ,the system of alchemy became available to all ,if you have the stat's you can become an alchemist,there are no player gate keepers for this craft since that time.

The recipes are interesting and fun they do not require anymore than a bit of paper and a pencil to work out ,once a list of herbs and their properties has been written down.
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Aegohl
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Aegohl »

Ufy, like I said, I have no means of comparison. I was just explaining that if players are able to be gatekeepers then that is bad. I don't have any knowledge to know if that is the case or not. Your word is as good as Estralis' or anyone else's in my mind. However, back to topic:

I know that this is beating a dead horse and I don't know if this can be fixed any more than it already has been: The Illarion client is more responsive than it has ever been in the history of Illarion and improved dramatically. Still, it isn't as responsive as, say, UO or any professionally-made game I've ever played. I realize that Illarion is not a professionally-made game, obviously. But we are competing for the same players. I feel like if I were a new player that would be the first thing that would make me question if I want to stay and I remember it making me think the same thing ten years ago as well. The reviewer also mentions this very thing. It's unfortunate that this is not an easy fix (or maybe even a possible fix with the current technology we're using).
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Jupiter
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Jupiter »

On Alchemy:

1. You can find it all out by your own. You don't NEED someone to give it all to you. So it is not like magic preVBU where it was technically impossible without other players.

2. If it is too difficult for you to figure it out on your own, you can seek out the help of others. Someone who already know its or someone who wants to learn together with you. Roleplay and stuff.

3. There is always the easy way of using the rare herbs (which are not really so rare, sadly).

If you can't figure it out by yourself AND if you don't want to do it with someone else AND if you don't want to use rare herbs, then you have a problem.

Is the system more complex than "click x to get z"? Yes. But there is more than one way how to handle this complexity.

There will be some changes to help you with getting started but how it works will stay the same.
(One thing I will change are the names of the different concentrations active agents can have. I think that is actually one of the most confusing and annyong things that you can hardly tell by the name of the concentration what concentration it actually is. And if you have concret ideas for changes: http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... =1&t=38517)

And:
but I wish to RP not solve puzzles
Include it in your roleplay. There is nothing that prevents from those two being combined except for your wish to not do so. Just like you can incldue the fact that your character cannot fight againt zombie gianst, you can also include in your roleplay that they seek out to work with others on the secret of alchemy. Reaction on the facts of the world is also roleplay, not just coming up with your own stuff.
Having currently two students I teach alchemy, I know what I am talking about.


Don't say "to complicated,I give up"

but say:

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED RAWR
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Mephistopheles »

LOL Jupiter

Thats exactly what i said when i started alchemy. Im pretty mathematically dumb but with effort i still figured out how to make a few potions by myself with minimal help at all. I agree that things are being made way too easy lately. It'll take me a long time to figure out alchemy because i do get busy in rl and sometimes my char gets into trouble so my focus is elsewhere. But in the end i know my char will be one of the few devoted alchemists in the game. That is why i continue the effort and because the rp is still quite extensive for an alchemist.
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Gwael »

Seeing as there's no feedback forum section, and having read this topic and that review, I felt like this post might fit in here...

There's something like accessibilty and a good presentation of the game, and then there's hand-holding and making things too easy or mainstream just so you get the biggest possible amount of players.

Illarion needs more accessibility in form of its presentation of the game A) outside of it (that review cites, for instance, that the site was very helpful and explanatory, personally speaking though I found it a bit bloated in some parts and telling me very little useful things about what the game is like, in some cases) and B) while playing, and things like controls, tutorials for those interested, engaging gameplay mechanics, or clues how to get started in various areas of gameplay. I think it does this fairly well—for the most part, even though it may look a bit antiquated in the graphics department for wide mainstream attention, it certainly doesn't screw up the basics. And from what I've played so far, the game does go to a lot of lengths to explain basic gameplay, like controls, so I don't know how much more handholding it needs. I learned fairly quickly how to move, fight, gather and craft, and that covers most of the essentials. I'm guessing the review refers to an earlier version of the game.

On the other hand, it doesn't necessarily need to provide more hand-holding, become too easy to play, or adopt too many mainstream practices. I see some glaring issues already in the game concerning the latter, things like "high scores" on the front page in a game about role-playing, or item levels when it's supposed to be an immersive environment. Definitely mainstream, and things that bothered me right off the bat in a game that's trying to sell itself as being all about hardcore role-playing—the game should not do things that are orthogonal to its expressed purpose.

What it does need are smooth controls and gameplay mechanics that aren't boring or annoying. Feedback about things like this should be taken seriously, as it will make or break the growth rate of the playerbase. I'm new to how this game plays out now, but it seems okay in these departments, so far. Some of the controls are clunky (switching in between walk<->run, swiveling the character model, not being able to swap items on the paperdoll but needing to take one off first, then put on the other one, etc.) but generally functional. And it seems like there are some quests that can keep you busy when there's little to nobody around to role-play with so you keep playing for a bit rather than just grinding out, although some of the quests are a bit generic and lead to exactly that ("get me 10 of these things!" oh goodie, time to go grinding like in the other twelve generic MMOs I've played...yawn).

Another thing is to consider giving pointers how to get started in things like alchemy or magic or what not, even if it's supposed to be obscure or mysterious. And I don't mean pointers so people can do it all by themselves in a vaccuum, or telling them exactly how to do it, but pointers like suggesting regions or NPCs or maybe even player characters to turn to, in order to gain more information. It took me a while, for example, to see that there is no actual support in the game mechanics for priestly type of miracle-working yet, but that that shouldn't stop us from playing the types of characters normally associated with it, like priests or paladins. That's all I needed to know, but just figuring that out required more digging than necessary. I believe it extends to figuring out things like alchemy or magic as well. If it comes up more from digging in the forums or OOC clues after being annoying about it in game, then it's not accessible at all, and that's not good because it limits the kind of character concepts you can play.

^ Sorry if that was too long.
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Estralis Seborian
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Estralis Seborian »

This is very good feedback, thank you very much. It shows that there is still a lot to do but some things went into the right direction since that video was shot. It hit us pretty hard because back then, we had the best part done of our very big update that anticipated many of the flaws, shown in the video.

It is very obvious to us developers that now that the "mainstream baseline" is almost reached - the features a player simply expects and that must not be absent - we have to focus mainly on unique features that no other game can offer. We have initiatives to boost the lore of the game, add arcane and priest magic and also, to add more variety to quests. As roleplaying is a little tricky to support from a coding point of view, we want to add features that promote interaction between players so that you get more opportunity to roleplay.

The graphics are sadly something we cannot fix anytime soon. Illarion will always look a little retro and dated compared to big commercial games. At one point, we might want to accept that and make it an attribute of Illarion. Not everyone out there enjoys flashing manga style graphics. But at the same time, e.g. our character models have to improve to meet at least the standard that was common 10 years ago.
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Gwael
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Re: Illarion in Review

Post by Gwael »

Haha, yeah, NO. Flashing manga style graphics would be awful for this game's goals, I think.

Just to clarify, I don't mean any disrespect by calling Illarion's graphics "antiquated." They're serviceable, they do what they need to. It looks a bit like Ultima Online, with a bit less actor animations but as fas as I can tell a staggering amount of terrain objects and paperdoll-able items, and it works, with the #me option filling in any blanks that a game engine usually can't. Graphically, Ultima Online looked antiquated compared to the original Diablo which had preceded it, but that was because they were trying to capture the look of Ultima 8 and people still played UO for many years after release even before it got some graphical overhauls, which just goes to show: gameplay > graphics.

I meant to say that one way to make the game more appealing to the mainstream without betraying any design ideals is by putting work into the graphics. Retro is fine, as can be seen with all the indie games that harken back to 8 or 16-bit eras of console gaming, but there are differing degrees of polish applied to retro graphics. For instance, the website, game client's splash screen, title graphic, region map and launch icon are good graphics. Then there are the in-game menus and GUI that look a bit clinical/technical for a fantasy feeling, fuzzy and tiny inventory item graphics, and the character models are a bit awkward, and that's ho-hum. "Papers, Please" is an indie game (and not an RPG) that looks pretty much awful, graphically, but the effect the game itself has on players is quite distinct and memorable, while on the other hand I can cite the original Fallout or Diablo games as examples of very consistent and good-looking 2D RPGs that are also good games. You can get away with "antiquated" graphics but it will definitely turn off people who are sensitive to them.

It's clearly a work of passion and several people doing it for free and all things considered it's quite an achievement, but graphics are one of those elements where you can continue applying more polish as time goes on if you want the game to appeal to more people, and it won't run counter to focusing on ways to encourage the hardcore role-playing that you strive to make the game about. As it were, like things like responsive/intuitive controls, or basic accessibility or how the game conveys information; these are things that appeal to anybody and don't betray the game's uniqueness, and as we can see even all the AAA-published game titles struggle with these things as well and continue to fine-tune them with updates or sequels.
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