"Tales around the Camp Fire" Video and Translation Check

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Post by Vermillion Dynasty » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:44 pm

Re: "Tales around the Camp Fire" Video and Translation Check

I've got a new slogan I think Illarion can use:
Illarion - Come play, relax, have a fun time - and risk having every interaction your character has in the game exposed in a advertisement gimmick without your knowledge - but hey, who doesn't want to share everything their character does and says?
This reminds me of the argument some people were having back during the Snowden case in the US. "Why not let the government see everything you do online if you have nothing to hide?".
I'm not saying this is as serious as the government breaching your privacy, I'm just making a point that not everyone enjoys exposure, no matter how harmless.

As for myself, my character was part of the most recent video Banduk posted and I took offense, not because I mind the exposure of my characters actions during that event - but because I(I as in my character and the actions/speech portrayed in her roleplay) was recorded without prior knowledge, and was never notified or asked whether or not I was fine with this, or the posting of the video including my character later on.
Had he notified us before the quest, or asked later on, I would've been fine with it. It's the "without my knowledge" part that I take issue with. At least have the decency to ask the players involved.

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Post by Karrock » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:28 pm

Re: "Tales around the Camp Fire" Video and Translation Check

Video recording on public quests is okay and in my opinion doesn't need to have agreement. Recorder needs agreement when he records private talk of course. We need let's plays of rp so let people do recording. Just hide your shyness and low self-evalution somewhere before a sitting to game.

Important to say. Now many people before starting a new game watch let's play. If they couldn't find any they don't give a chance to game.

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Post by Drugar Stonesmasher » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:38 am

Re: "Tales around the Camp Fire" Video and Translation Check

A question to those who are not comfortable with the recording:

in case this recording would have been announced:

would you have taken part still?
would you have acted differently?

are you realy that deeply personally involved in the action of a role played character that you feel monitored RL like?
Once again this was a official quest with quite a few participants and not a one on one Tête-à-Tête.

(i pretty well know that in character emotions towards another character are easily transportet to RL emotions to the PO, but that is a thing one should work on.)



and on part of your privacy:
Its an easy feature and most likly also done, that every line "spoken" is recorded on the server and thus available to the illarion team. Is that a reason not to play?

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Post by Vermillion Dynasty » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:36 am

Re: "Tales around the Camp Fire" Video and Translation Check

Like I already mentioned earlier: I would have been fine with the video released had he just asked me. This video revealed nothing about my character that I do not mind being known ooc.

The problem is there are new players and old players alike who abuse ooc knowledge, and the world isn't so perfect that you can just go "Yeah but there are rules about that so just report it".
Some people change their behaviors based on knowledge they have about others ooc. Some forget they got to know these things ooc and assume their characters know about it. Some spread rumors or state things they know as ooc as fact in game. Not all of these cases are easy to note and report, and suddenly your characters "secret" is known to the in game world just because it was made known ooc. Even if you manage to report it, it will in most cases be nearly impossible to contain what has already been said and done in game as rumors and such spread really fast there. Not just videos like these, I know people have posted RP topics in the RP forum with knowledge about their characters that is not public knowledge in game - and later found that someone has spread this knowledge or uses this knowledge against them to their face IG. Any ooc knowledge about your character out there can be abused by those not following the rules properly, and thus some people choose to avoid making RP topics - These videos can involve content players do not want known ooc in case of ooc abuse. And before you argue "yeah but there are rules and just because someone doesnt follow them you shouldnt have to be the one to take precautions". There are laws against rape. There's still rapists. There is a thing called a rape whistle aka a precaution. Yes, a rather serious crime I am using as an example but it is only to make the point that people still take precautions when they know things that are against the rules happen, and sometimes for good reason.

Example:
Character 1, 2 and 3 are evil and are holding a meeting of evil evilness.
Character 1 is portrayed as a good person with a flawless reputation in public.
Character 2 is known as the most evil follower of Moshran ever in public.
Character 3 is known as good but has an RP post that reveals they are not.

Character 2 ends up posting the character log/A video of this meeting.
Character 3 doesn't care because it is all ooc and they already have revealed themselves ooc before.
Character 1 suddenly has a rumor about them going on in game that they are evil, and since it is true, people suddenly start taking note of things they did not before due to the characters former flawless rep.

If character 2 had asked before posting, character 3 would have said it was fine to post while character 1 would've asked to not be part of it to avoid possible abuse of ooc knowledge.

Some people abuse ooc knowledge despite the rules, that's a fact. It's impossible to contain the damages from doing it, even if you catch them do it and ban them. This can ruin a characters roleplay to a certain degree if they suddenly become a social outcast or banned character, when they are still establishing their presence or the likes before pulling some major stunt. There are of course other examples than dubious characters having their intentions revealed, maybe your character is cheating on their lover, or is aiming to become president of Illarion, but that's just one I've seen a lot of by now so I figure it would be the more common one.

This is why I'm not saying "stop any filming", or "don't ever film my characters", and is also why I don't mind the latest movie that much, I mind that I and others weren't asked about the particular movie. If you were to film another game, say WoW, there wouldn't be such things as ooc abuse possible, it's unique to our genre, thus it's hard to make the same argument that "yeah but this isn't you it's just an avatar in a game". It might not be me, but it can still ruin the roleplay of someones character if they are recorded at the wrong moment and the content is released without their knowledge so they can not even protest it before it is too late.

I just got a message from Banduk asking for my characters names so he can just add them to a "do not film"-list. This is not what I meant. I meant you should ask the people involved when they are involved. I don't mind being part of the most recent video, I mind not being asked for the reasons above as you never know if your character said or did something that shouldn't be known ooc by players not present.
Saying you will just avoid any people who would like to be asked before the video is posted, is just a lazy way to do it and is like if someone were to say "This pizza is a bit underdone" and you go "OK I'll overcook it then". And before any of you disagree with me: Why don't you post your character log? I'm sure you'd be fine posting 90% of your characters log, but that's the point, what if it happens to be that the recorded session is part of that 10% where you don't want your characters actions known ooc in case of ooc abuse.

This is a sensitive subject. I'm not saying you should change your RP based on whether or not its being recorded, but I am saying that some people change their RP based on OOC knowledge even though they shouldn't, and this can harm peoples RP if the wrong moments are recorded and published without their knowledge. Adding people to a blacklist as you come across the ones that care is just a lazy way to do it.

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Post by Drugar Stonesmasher » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:44 am

Re: "Tales around the Camp Fire" Video and Translation Check

Well that goes a bit along the line i wanted to add to my prior posting but failed doing so..:


One thing i would like to add though is, that interaction containing major spoilers should not be published - at least not before things have evolved.
For example it would not have been a good thing to publish the interaction between Jefferson Gray and Prea during that cave szene in front of Galmair,
which Drugar was able to spy upon completly. But i am sure the makers of such movies are pretty well aware of such things.

And i agree so far, that it always makes a difference if you know of the dark side of a character or if you dont, no matter how good you are at roleplaying.
Either that you act as if you know / suspect or on the opposite side are overlooking hints and actions by that character, that might reveal his real side.

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Post by Vermillion Dynasty » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: "Tales around the Camp Fire" Video and Translation Check

Drugar Stonesmasher wrote: But i am sure the makers of such movies are pretty well aware of such things.
Thing is that the maker of the movie won't always be able to spot such things, which is why it makes sense to actually ask people before publishing their RP.

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Post by Banduk » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:22 pm

Re: "Tales around the Camp Fire" Video and Translation Check

I sent a PM to everybody (in total 27) who was identified in one of the existing movies.

Unfortunately I could not identify any PM address for the following characters:
  • Augie
  • Renoah
  • Floriel
  • Willim Dartson
  • Tak Zel
  • Raef
  • Isenbard
  • Camus Chromlinde
  • Xanthe
If you are the player of one of the chars please sed me an answer to the following request:
-- English see below -- German text is leading--
Hallo,

bis vor Kurzem waren im YouTube Kanal https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzhEho ... L7J0lnqC7w Videos vom Rollenspiel auf Illarion.org zu sehen, bei denen auch einer deiner Charaktere mitspielt.
Wegen öffentlich geäußerter Bedenken, die im schlimmsten Fall von Abmahnbüros verwendet werden können, habe ich sie unsichtbar geschaltet und sehe ich mich gezwungen alle Spieler um Erlaubnis anzufragen.

Bist du damit einverstanden, dass von dir gespielte Charaktere auf Videos im vorab genannten Youtube Kanal zu sehen sind?

Solltest du das oder die betroffenen Videos vorab sehen wollen, schicke mir bitte eine E-Mail Adresse. Damit kann ich es dir ermöglichen, das oder die Videos in einer geschützten Verbindung anzusehen.

Banduk

--Deusch siehe oben - Deutscher Text ist führend--
Hello

until recently on the YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzhEho ... L7J0lnqC7w contains a number of movies displaying the role play of Illarion.org where visible, where one of your character took part. Because of public concerns, which in the worst case can be used by signing offices, I turned them invisibly and I see myself compelled to ask all players for permission.

Do you agree that characters you have played may be seen on videos in the aforementioned YouTube channel?

If you want to see the video (s) in advance, please send me an e-mail address. So I can allow you to watch the video (s) in a protected connection.

Banduk

Lia

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Post by Lia » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:20 pm

Re: "Tales around the Camp Fire" Video and Translation Check

I dont unterstand your Problem Vermillion!

There is NOTHING in the Videos what could be bad for the characters. No information flow which ooc could be used against characters. And He makes most Videos on puplic quest.

Example the Video from the Expedition to Letma with the desert fox.

And by the way , Just as Banduk cuts the videos, you can also follow only superficial, the written in the chat. So it is above all the presence and enginge conditional action which are most visible in the videos.

And for NEW PLAYER would this Videos good. Can wake her interest for Illarion. A thing what we need, then we have not much player.

He has been making these videos for 2 years, and there have never been problems. Until you are dived.

Sure I understand your concern, but I think Banduk is intelligent enough that he knows when it would be better to remove something from the video or the like.

Consider the time and effort that he puts into it. You should respect that already.

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Post by Rincewind » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:35 pm

Re: "Tales around the Camp Fire" Video and Translation Check

Image

This lion cub represents my allowance. The whole GIF represents how I would dumb this awesome project, because it became suddenly a lot more work than expected. The goats are all the lawyers, mean and frightened people.

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Post by Banduk » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:17 pm

Re: "Tales around the Camp Fire" Video and Translation Check

Thank you for every player at the Mount Letma Quest.
The movie is now public. Feel free to use it for Illa promotion.

https://youtu.be/hY9mAH7LcC8

Banduk

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Post by Teflon » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:04 pm

Re: "Tales around the Camp Fire" Video and Translation Check

Thank you!

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