New guild system: your chance to influence development

[Vilarion]

Dear Illarionites,

you wanted to have a guild system first! Now there you go. Since I value your opinion (not because I am lazy ), I am asking you to share your opinions and ideas what such a system should look like!
This is once again an opportunity to influence Illarion development. Make it count!

Best wishes,

Vilarion

-----------------------------------------

Liebe Illarioniten,

ihr habt euch dafür entschieden zuerst ein Gildensystem zu bekommen! Also los geht's. Da ich eure Meinung schätze (nicht weil ich faul bin ), bitte ich euch nun um eure Meinung wie ein solches System aussehen sollte!
Dies ist eine weitere Gelegenheit die Entwicklung von Illarion zu beeinflussen. Nutzt sie!

Alles Gute,

Vilarion

[Athian]

Anything that provides guild unity will probably appeal.

1.Well I imagine that a Guild or Faction name might be present next to your character name such as:
Daffy Duck(Loony Tunes)
Or other ways to identify guild members aside from simply knowing them.

2. Perhaps some way to earn merit with your city as a guild rather then an individual that could yield some sort of privilege other then gems.

3. A guild storage of some sort that is communal between members would probably be a popular idea.

4. Maybe an NPC that handles guild aspects such a joining or quitting there respective guild, so long as they are a member of that guilds city (or also an vagrant for vagrant guilds)

5. Eventually I'm sure people will want there own guild space etc (how that will be handled i do not know^^ ).Perhaps also handled by keeping a score of guild merits. Upon reaching a certain degree they could be given space in some manner by the faction leader.

Thats all i can think of ATM

[Mr.Oldie]

hehe, I was going to put my suggestions as a Proposal soon enough while the Guild system was still under construction.
But this thread was created so ill put up my suggestion here. its kinda elaborate and noring please bare with me
Hopefully even though not all of our suggestions will be taken in, this will atleast reduce the chance of players(like me .. ) bitching about the system after its implemented

Also my suggestions here are not only for guild but guild-related or similar things like accumulating/collecting things for Projects.
Most of the suggestions are in a way to minimise the involvement of GMs in this.
Lets not disturb them for each and everything, and give them time to create awesome quests for us
EDIT:

• it took me too long to complete this that others added things similar to my ideas after this post.
  i've added things under "EDIT" if something related to what someone has said below has been added to my original ideas

well here goes, my suggestions:


1. Nametag changes
a) Prefix-Suffix

• This is an old thing just mentioning it as it might be important and can be done along with this.
  Before logging in or perhaps in-game(since there are more than 1 char-per-player and player might choose to do it differently with each)a toggle should be given.
  this toggle could deal with showing prefix and suffix.
  Prefix-Suffix creation could be like in the old system using ! commands).
  This could be useful as a guild thing to show the rank inside the guild (like "commander");
  Also this can be used to show-off the relationships (usage of li' ti' hehe something like that), nicknames ("Purple" )

b)Guild names in name tags

• As Athian said the option to show the guild to which you belong to would be good.
  But bear in mind that one char might be in many different guilds.
  So some way of giving or chosing preference of showing the guild name IG should be given.
  
  My idea for that is:
  Make the guild name/ anything important engravable in amulets.
  Give goldsmiths (of a certain lvl) the skill do that.(tongs/chisel used on anvil? may be!)
  Colour of the stone used in the amulet could be the colour in which the Guild name would be shown in the tags.(optional,this idea need not be implemented)
  Making it an IG thing in such a way would be useful in many ways:
  • ♦GMs wont always have to do that for each new member.
    ♦the name tags wont be too big with mentioning more than one Guilds name(just one amulet slot)
    ♦Depending on the situation the character can chose to wear the correct amulet and thus which guild he want to represent(military situation, trading situation,Guild events etc etc)
    ♦ face it, amulets currently have no other use this would make it make it usable
    Edit: wearing amulets can be considered as a visual thing thus making it alright to add the guild name in name tags
    (like "ohh he is wearing the amethyst amulet of that fashion, hmmm soo he is of that guild" )

2. Guild storage:
a) Existing Depot:

• I did add a mantis feature request related to this long back.
  Some of the ideas there are still viable i think.
  Readressing it here with a few edits to it, so that all the players can read it.
  
  
  Using KEYS, the already existing depots inside the same city can be used and thus turned into guild-depots, just like how normal depots are used now.
  NPC creation or "guild Depot" would make it a single target usable/access inside a city.
  Further more this may create a crowd at this place trying to access it when some event related to this guild occurs.
  Turning the existing depots by using a key would avoid this.
  
  KEY
  • can be just a simple item that can be made from blacksmithing/finesmithing/buyable through NPC(townguard/portal seller??! may be!).
    One key would let you access all the guilds you are member of. Read further to understand.
    Optional: The number of groups/guilds allowed to be accessed can be limited in each key type.
    COPPER(1),IRON(2),SILVER(5),GOLD(10),Merinium(20)
    Ensuring the cost of making/buying these things relatively high enough would lessen chance of a mass creation of useless guilds.
    10 ingots of the same type(copper for copper key, iron for iron key, etc etc) required to make the key would be enough.
    Keys wont be named with the guild name. just as "Guild key".
  A Guild-KEY when used near a depot opens a "pop up box" much like the quill being used to label.
  
  • It chould be displayed something like this:
    
    Functions self explanatory,but still:
    Open: open the storage unit of the selected.
    Leave: Leave the guild/project/group.
    Create new: Creates a new storage unit.
  As you can see in the above example there is a number (3)
  This is an example of Pop up that comes up while using a silver key which can open upto 5 storage units
  Since the user here already has 2 storage units (which he may or may not have created himself) only 3 is left.
  
  For DEVs:
  New storage units created using keys under the "NAME" of (guild/project/deal name)
  The name of the storage unit could then act as the variable needed to access it.
  This would unbind the depot from the character and bind it into a new depot format.
  (Usual depot =<charname>
  Guild depot= <charname>@<storagename>)
  Just make sure that the items in the simple depot isnt wiped due to some glitch.
  
  
  • Once the storage unit is opened, it could be something like this:
    
    Explanation:
    The Member option at the top left would be the list of all members in the guild/group.
    The Item option at the right would be the list of items needed.
  • The item list could be something like this:
    
    • 1.for common members.
      
      
      
      2.for creators/caretakers.
      
      Explanation:
      In the above example,
      cut stones needed to be collected,
      Bag has reach the limit
      short bow has been requested by a common member, yet to be accepted by the caretaker/creator. Once accepted the limit could be set
      Limit:To avoid Spaming of items to get more merit by members, the creator of guild should be given authority to set a limit.(Merit explained later on, read further to unserstand)
      Each new item "added" to the storage will await the the creators/caretakers acceptance before other members can start depositing them.
    MemberList once opened could like this:
    • 1.for common members.
      
      
      
      2.for creators/caretakers.
      
      
      Exlanpanation:(toggle on)
      Caretaker: can add people and change their status(so that creator can give permission to his trusted Lieutnants to recruit to the guild)(other than the creator only he would have the ADD people option when the list is shown)
      Deposit: can ONLY deposit to the storage
      Withdraw: Can ONLY withdraw from the storage
      BAN:deleting the person from the user list
      [5772]: "Merit"- Explained in detail further down
      Double click on name: Pops up anthor box of the withdraw/deposit activities(log) of that particular char till now to this storage unit.(a scrollable list like the ones in alchemy recipe list)
    DEposit-Withdraw(Explanation):
    Deposit-withdraw option could be toggled off for people on "probation" .
    For those who wants to look around how the guild is and all, the creator can add them without the options toggled on.
    
    Why both is needed?
    Just-Deposit:
    For situations like tunnel project/building projects where things need to be just collected.
    No withdraw so that people wont take things from this.
    
    Just withdraw:
    for new members in guilds, so that they wont be allowed to deposit until they reach a certain "Merit".
    can withdraw so that they can use things from the depot to better their condition.
    A low merit would be provided by the creator upon adding a new member so that he can withdraw things using the merit
    (to understant how "Merit" please read further)
    
    
    Foreseen Problems with items:(DEVs decision to allow or not)
    Storing Coins inside this would lead to "guild tribute" and "guild gems".
    Bare in mind though inter-town guilds might be formed.
    So guild trribute- guild gems would not be a good option to have.
    Also if there is no guild tribute, chars may decide to put coins here to escape from the tribute.
    You can simply avoid all this by making it so that coins cant be transfered to the storage unit at all.
  b. Merit system:
  • The log inside the storage unit can be used for this.
    A formula linking the coins worth of an item to merit should be made.
    Anything added to the storage unit should add merit to that person then.(Limit set would avoid spamming as mentioned before)
    Other than this the creator/caretaker could change the merits depending on members performance for the guilds growth.
    New members would be given a low amount of merit for intial usage(as mentioned before)
    
    Use of merit:
    In case of projects the merits can be used to award favours by town GMs
    In case of guild:
    Reaching a certain merit could be considered eligible for promotion in ranks
    Also Merit could be used to withdraw items from the storage.(again the formula would be used)
    The character can thus choose whether to get rewards either as items for merits or a rank promotion by waiting for the merits to reach that high.

thats all i can think of for now

EDIT: Please dont charge for guild creation.
it would be negative to charge them in any way.
Guilds would create more inter-character interaction, charging a fee for creation would lessen that

[Rakaya]

Guilds should be founded by not less than e.g. 5 players or so and only with the permission of an GM (best the town GM). And these players should not be member of another guild (or not all) and from different players. (like in the old client) The founder or all members should be have a high rank in the town.
It would be nice when there are guild ranges. Like aspirant, member and leader. Maybe they can be changed by an tool (like the lock-pick) only can be used be the guild leader. So you can say only members can use the guild depot (an important thing).
When the guilds are famous enough in a town it should be able to get a guild house or something like that. E.g. a building or a place they can build a building. Also the possibility to get a guild depot can be dependent on the connection to the town leader. But this needn't be a rank, it also can be a subjectivity of the leader of the town (GM).
The merit of the guild shouldn't be connected with the merit of the town. You can raise your town rank, when your guild arrange a event for the town.
I'm against it, that the guild is displayed next to the name. How will you know this, nobody write his guild name on the forehead. Maybe there are secret guilds. I think it is better when you can inscribe or decorate clothes and have the possibility to have a proper player lookat of the characters (what we will get some day). So you can see the emblems of the guild.

[nathi]

hej

sorry I have no idea what a guild system is
Is the system of the 3 towns not already such a "guild system"? Shall the town guilds divided in sub guilds or how shall I understand that?

lg
nathi

[GolfLima]

hello,

1 ) why should the guild leader have i high town rank? - guild has nothing to do with towns / my char at the beginning do not increase his town rank ....althoug he could that do
2 ) guilds should not be connected with towns -> it make no sense for me if a mercenaries guild is connected with only one of the towns & members must be from this town // thiefguilds too
3 ) a minimum number of active members would be good (cant decide how many that should be)
4 ) a guild deppot would be great
5 ) if there is money in the guild depot that should be taxed to ( otherwise guild member would put their money in the guildbox and dont pay taxes )
6 ) guilds should not can built tools (anvil, loom, tables, ovens ...) but may be have some rooms
7 ) i dislike the idea that we can see more informations than the name above the char. (( when using keys ))
8 ) may be later there is a chance for something like that at the old client ((clothes with guildsymbols)) - but you get only this information in the textbox if you uses the mouse for looking at the char. (( dont know if this is possible ))
9 ) is it possible that towns exclude guildmembers from their town?
10 ) ...

[Raina Narethil]

Well for one if this is to be made it is fine.

To have a guild it should cost something like 100 - 200 could be higher gold to have a guild depot per month as it is something special to have all the people in your group able to get things from it.

This is something within Reason since there will be a set number of people to own one is only fair (( if the amount for people is 5 to make a guild then they can easily pay 100 gold coins for it if not more. )) they each add to the keep of it. Plus it keeps hording of gold down from just selling off things to gain more coins.

Example player A fills the depot while players B,C,D,E empty it to pging making coins.

Agreed with Jerem this should be seperate from the towns so Rank should not have anything to do with it. To give all a chance to have one, who want to put the time and effort out for it.

Also the same goes true for the added titles. This seems to be just a waste if information to be shown. That this man is novice in *guild A* then the name, if they are that proud of the guild they are in they can saying when introducing yourself.

It would be like adding the town you live in before your name.

Same goes with the building of tools and what not, Already there is far to much of this already being seen. to the point one town is basically already doing this do to a guild there already, They shouldn't get special treatment over any other citizen.

These are just some thoughts to add to it, it makes a great coin sink and makes the guild stay active if they want to have the privileges to be a guild.

I would even to go one further as to make it have a guild decay timer on it. so if the Guild can not keep its members active it loses the depot. This keeps a group from forming a guild to just get special treatment. and no actual members use the depot. (( seen it added to other games it is fair and legal, this keeps the players in game working to the goal of the guild. ))

[Mephistopheles]

I was thinking of automatic pay for guilds that are connected to a town, Like the Iron watch, but can be regulated by guild officers or leader say if there is an inactive guard. this is so we hard working wardens can get our pay instead of harassing their commander. now wit the change in FS coin will be more valuable and is harder for warriors to make good income which brings a need for payment for jobs done.

and by the way Raina with the change in economy... (will certainly change, coin will become more valuable with the new FS and also making certain items more rare) I am highly against the exorbitant price of maintaining 100-200 gold in depot... maybe 50 golds is more accurate.

[Raina Narethil]

It breaks down to the number of members needed to make a guild. It is a one time charge a month taken like the taxes it can be prepared for and it isn't suppose to easy to make and keep a guild.

If the five people work hard enough they can do it, don't worry.

[Lennier]

I like the idea of a guild system supporting guild management.

In opposite to other I would prefer a system, inwhich guilds are parts of town societies. It fills the town communites with more content. Families, clans, circles of scholars etc. in try to get political, economical or religious influence (only examples). That should be linked with town ranks of guild leaders directly.
Sub-groups in all kind of our fantasy should be the base of all town societies.

But I am open to have a possibility that outlaws can create guilds too. Towns can stay in alliance/friendship, neutral or in war to them. That would made possible town-unrelated guilds with all consequences.

[Evie]

My only thought here if guilds are linked to towns, you miss the opportunity for groups to form with members from different towns. I think that would be a great opportunity for increased depth to roleplay. Making guilds a town only option, basically forces people to become one of the bigger subfactions or lose out on opportunities even more so than it is already. Just some thoughts.

[GolfLima]

@Lennier

i totaly disagree with the idea to connect towns with guilds.
1 ) that exclude some char from guilds ....or they need to change the town (they are forced to change the town - may be one of the towns will have no players any more or only one or two - sounds bad for me)
2 ) like i said mercenaries guild // thiefguild // mage guild // druids - in my eyes for these groups it is senseless to make a guild if this is part of one town only
3 ) i have no idea why town ranks should be connected with leadership of a guild

and
4 ) i lke the idea that the guild have to pay for the depot .....i think for a group it is more easy to earn money than for one alone

[Raina Narethil]

It is more easier because they are working as group so a high cost is needed to make it fair.

I would say script it like the town ranks.. the more people in the guild the more you pay to make it balanced for the people who have less members.

example would be why should a group of 2 (( example starting guild number)) say work harder then a group with 10 people.

That would then make the lower cost the base model for 2 members of 50 gold and climb say 25 - 50 more per person say. to keep it where the larger guilds just don't sit back and not work as hard as the little ones.

[Silverwing]

Here are my thoughts about Guilds.

I think guilds should be related to towns. What will happen if two towns go to war and a guild has members in both towns? Any factionleader would not allow guilds in his or her town when he or she cannot consider a guild as loyal.

Founding a guild should need a high when not even a special rank in a town. A good reputation at the place where you want to establish a group officially is always helpful. Plus the loyalty to the town is granted.

There should be a minimum number of Chars from different players to found a guild.

A guild should be able to rent a building or something comparable in the town.

Guild-depots are something what really is a must have.

There should be the option to set internal guild ranks maybe connected with rights for the guild-depots. E.g. 3 Guild depots and only members with a high rank can access all of them.

I would suggest making the members of a guild able show their membership under or above their name. This could be en/disabled by putting the item "Guild-cape" in the matching slot for example.

There should be something to keep the guilds active maybe tasks they have to do for the towns or a monthly fee they'll have to pay.

I don't think outlaw-guilds should be an option because the whole system could be based on the towns what would make it easier to involve whole groups of players in the towns and Guilds might easier be able to influence the politics of towns. When the leader of a guild speaks you usually can expect that the members of the guild share his opinion or at least will follow him or her. Why do you think the medieval crafting and trading guilds had so much influence on the politics of towns even if they have not been noblemen?

Inter-town-guilds should be really big guilds with good relationships in all towns they are in. Limiting the foundation of guilds to a single town would be no problem then because a Guild could simply found some kind of sub-guild in another town by founding a new guild there. E.g. Fighter-guild of Cadomyr, Fighter-guild of Galmair and Fighter-guild of Runewick.

[Raina Narethil]

Of course you would.

But what makes a guild so special it gets to build things where a normal person can't. Because they have a group of friends who want to form a group who want to take control of a town, compared to others who play their characters not in huge groups or don't wish to deal with it do lack of RL time to actually play.

As for doing tasks for the purpose of getting or paying a depot is out of the question, coins should be the way to go since not all towns have full time gm's in them to support them they want to keep the depot let them do it evenly by earning coin.

As for caring if people are loyal to your town or not is up to the guild master not the town itself... if they feel the person from the other town is responsible enough or not is up to them it is not going to hurt the town if a guild of bakers makes a depot in Runewick to bake there to be around friends persay.

[Raina Narethil]

You wonder why Guild should not get special treatment the perfect case was todays event in Galmair.

Sorry to say this is true to why they shouldn't.

[Jupiter]

Hello, keep it ingame, please.

Try to stay on topic and try not turn this into a flame war. This topic is supposed to give you a chance to influence the development of Illarion. Don't waste this opportunity!

Thank you,
Jupiter

[Rincewind]

I would like a guild depot, with a included log that shows who took and stored what item.

Togther with the posibilty to leave a note, I could send my companions stuff, very easy and handy.
(Gms are able to write on parchments alredy, Players could do the same as well.)

The posibilty to have ranks, suported by the guildsystem and maybe even bound to the depots would be a good thing. Newcomers would have to earn their right to access the depot. Different depots for different ranks sounds also nice.

The treasue stored in the depot should be taxed like everything else, since the coin would increase the given magic gems like usual. Therefore it would be reasonable to bind a guild to a town.

To display the guildname at your character should be a choseable option or not possible at all. LIke people said before me, it's not obvious where you belong to.

A monthly fee sounds painful to me. Who pays it? How to organize it every time? What happens to the settings and stored stuff should I miss a toll? Why do you want to punish guildmembers with a fee? It's hard enough to get some people to work together a little bit alredy. It wouldn't be easier if I had to tell them (for example) their tax would increase should they join, while a guild is supposed to make the archievement of your aims easier.

While a guild should be bound to a town for tax questions, it creates the question of the belonging of its members. The tax would be easely avoided if a townmember could join an outlawguild. While I see no problem when a townguild was be joined by outlaws or foreign cititzens.

To create a guild:
- if it is bound to the townrank... what happens to the guild should the leader get banned or loose his/her rank?
- I don't want the townleader to force me totally because he could easely destroy my guild if I oppose. The political influnce of the guild would be nulliefied.
- The simplest thing would be to allow everyone to found a guild. Outlaws as well as Cititzens.
- Succesless guilds will disappier anyway in short time.
- A set price to buy one two or even three guild depots would be acceptable. But no regulary toll please.
- Or you ask for some rare items...

My first thoughts so far.
regards, Rince

[Annabeth]

An idea of how to work the guild name next to character name:
Another command such as we already use #i to make "Of X" appear behind the name.
So say someone does #i then #x , you'd see " name of guild-name"
Or #x "Someone of guild-name"
this way you'd have the choice of telling people youre from the guild but not your charas name, telling them your chara name but not guild, or both.
The reason a system like this is better than a simple turn off/on name system is you may introduce yourself differently towards different characters.

[Damien]

I am for a "Heavy Metal" factor in guild rating.
The more members in a guild, the higher the moshpit-factor, and the more often the guild members do stuff together, the more "true" the guild becomes.
And each guild member gets a "true" - factor depending on a totally complex, unlogical and brain-dismantingly buggy formula consisting of the character's online time, the average time spent with group members, the total hour of powergaming the character went through, the time spent killing non-guild player characters, the average number of beer consumed per online hour by the character, the average number of beer consumed per online hour of the player, and the time spent cybering.


---

Joke aside. I am for specialized guild items depending on the guild's active member accounts which guild members can buy from an NPC or a GM.
These items must be bought for the actual value their non-customized items have and the items of the same type MUST be identical for each guild member.
For example:
5 members : simple guild item (a uniform hat or a cloak, cheap-ish, with a custom description)
10 members: better guild item (expensive type uniform item instead of the first one)
10 members: guild can get a building.
15 members: second item: guild uniform shield or weapon (simple item)
20 members: second item improved (better weapon or shield, magical)
25 members: guild item with special ability (something like, making sheep-baa or fart noises when used, nothing too powerful like teleports etc.)
25 members: ...and so on

[Raina Narethil]

The pay for the Guild depot comes from inside the depot itself, as long as the depot has the coins it lets it stay in existance.

If the coins are not in it the depot becomes locked and fee of the full cost of the depot, plus half gets it unlocked before the decay timer takes it what ever that is set to..

[Mephistopheles]

The pay for the Guild depot comes from inside the depot itself, as long as the depot has the coins it lets it stay in existance.

If the coins are not in it the depot becomes locked and fee of the full cost of the depot, plus half gets it unlocked before the decay timer takes it what ever that is set to..

Listen... unless there is another reward like gems or rare items, these prices are astronomical. Bart used to be able to make like 2-3 maybe more golds a hunting trip. Now with the new fs he barely breaks even from food and repair costs. Money is getting harder to come by and these prices are ridiculous. With this noone will have a guild... other than raina's cutthroat prices i think these are good ideas

[GolfLima]

Sorry,

this all sounds to me that

Char. are massivly forced to be a guild member. I dontlike this idea.

[Silverwing]

Char. are massivly forced to be a guild member.

When a char wants to use the advantages of guilds he or she must be a member of a guild. In some way you are right about this, but isn't the topic about a guild system?
Founding, organizing and keeping a guild together is an aim for the members and the leader of a guild. By implementing a system as planned some things will become easier to them ((Guild-depots)) and some will get harder ((They will have to do something to keep the status itself or some advantages)).

From my personal point of view this post here is ment for brainstorming ideas so the developers have a big pool of ideas they can use when working on this system.

Here another idea for the pool after all:

Guildtags on the onlinelist, maybe linked to the idea of being able to turn showing the guild membership in game on and off.

[Mr.Oldie]

Updated, click here
Please read i hope you would agree to most of the things

[Tyan Masines]

The suggestions and discussion seems fine. I would like to go off topic for a second though to adress a matter.. viewer discretion is advised.





Somewhere in between the process of adding a guild system and an ingame postman service, I believe it will be important to stop newbies from spawning with graphics exposing their backside, since I personally would not give a game a second look that spawned me like that. ^^

[Vilarion]

LOL
eh, stay on topic

and thanks for the reminder!

[Kaspar Young]

I don't think you really need a 'guild' system built in.

Rather, I think pretty much all of this can be handled via roleplay and the forum. Of course small things can be added here or there, and the suffix/prefix thing is useful.

Only issue is possibly storage, but you could assign a 'treasurer' character if needed. In my opinion this proposal will just result in more things for the staff to worry about/manage, when it should be handled by players organically.

A guild should only come into existence if there's a real demand for it. Often we ended up swamped by different guilds/factions, to the point where everyone was a member of multiple ones and few ended up mattering