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Masked characters

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:20 pm
by Karrock
First I should say I don't know where to place this topic. So please move it if it's not fit here.

We really lack items which make char "Someone". Sadly part of players can't dispart some things. If they see name of my char they automatically acusse him, but all time he was masked and none seen how he was wearing on special clothes. Is really forbiden to play masked chars?

Re: Masked characters

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:33 pm
by S'rrt
Of course it's not forbidden but I agree with you, it sucks. In my opinion there are two aspects to it:
1. how well you RP being concealed
2. how willing the other PO is to accept that their character isn't perfect at spotting things.

I can understand how it's easy for someone to spot the name of a character (whether introduced or given) then immediately think of a specific and perhaps a bit unrealistic way of identifying them. Even if they DON'T idenfity them in the moment, there's still the danger of metagaming where the PO will allow the knowledge of the true identity of the character to affect their other interactions, or later on they'll "just know" somehow.

On the flipside of the coin, disguises are really difficult. Try putting on a mask and different clothes then go hover around people who have a pretty good sense of who you are. Even if you don't speak, I guarantee you they'll know who you are unless you are COMPLETELY concealed and have adapted different mannerism. Basically what I'm saying is that your RP, when masked, has to be completely different to when you're unmasked. Sometimes it helps to throw in something like "it would require excellent skill and luck to identify" in your emotes, although most players would probably ignore that in favor of their super-badass investigation skills and impeccable senses.

Re: Masked characters

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:43 pm
by Seajiha
Well I don't think it is forbidden to play masked characters. Of course most people will be suspicius if you wear some sort of disguise, especially if it's really a mask.

However, I think bad rp or inclusion of ooc-information is a much more problematic in this case: There are transformation potions and people will still notice who you are. Maybe allowing items to conceal the character name after use is a viable solution.

Re: Masked characters

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:45 pm
by Kugar
I agree with the above and don't have anything to add on that aspect. I'm just posting here to let you guys know that I saw Karrock's char go to some lengths by rubbing stinking mud over himself included with the disguise. Pretty sure I saw him emote that stuff, mostly, but mistakes can always be made in the chaos of a sudden battle I guess. A friendly ooc reminder should remedy the situation in most cases I should think.

Re: Masked characters

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:56 pm
by Karrock
List of things I made to hide my char's personality:

Helmet:
- Covers face and changes voice
Weapon:
- I use two handed weapons as Avenger, normally I use sword and shield
Clothes:
-Different colors, before yellow now will be blue, normally Groz uses red (Different color makes easier recognize who I play now)
Smell:
-Uses mud (adviced by Jeff to cover personality against lizardmen)

Of course you can still try recognize by posture or try to take off helmet after death, but it's forced rp in my opinion.

Re: Masked characters

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:37 pm
by Drugar Stonesmasher
Hi,

sorry not to have known this.

But on the other hand its quite wearisome, that if one sees someone, one first has to ask this one, if one is able to recognize that one,
or if he is cloaked, incognito, etc and thus his name unknown.
Will make any interaction a bit slow...

But as it is declared now here i will try to act accordingly

Re: Masked characters

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:43 pm
by S'rrt
Forced RP goes both ways. Trying to stubbornly push the idea that your character is unrecognisable, even after being knocked back and vulnerable to unmasking (happens to Batman/Spiderman all the time), can also be regarded as forced RP. There needs to be consideration on both sides.

Re: Masked characters

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:42 pm
by Djironnyma
As long as theirs now engine wise option to hide a chars name no one is forced rule wise not to recognise a char who may played as masked or similar. AFAIK that will not change in near future cause of the lack of manpower to change it.

Anyway in the sense of roleplaying with and not against each other we strongly recommend everyone to play fair if chars played as masked. That means on one hand to give the masked char a chance not be recognised, on the other hand not to abuse these offered chance by compel the other chars to roleplay they don’t want.

Re: Masked characters

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:37 pm
by Mephistopheles
The point is the recent consistency of ignored rp.

It's incredibly frustrating when rp is attempted someone just yells "forced rp!" to the gms or ooc claiming they can't continue rp'ing as if the action took place.

Yet I've noticed many cases where people were forcefully teleported by leading chars (ie. Don mostly, but Brassius is also known for his special blue arrows) against their will with no real rp capture. As well as stats being taken and much more, much of which will only cause arguments if I were to point them out.

I encourage players to ignore this behavior and to continue roleplaying the way they want, eventually there will be features to support the other side of rp if they can show the same effort. Push forward, try and set up some evilish (so black and white anymore :roll: ) quests and eventually the content will change to fit the game.

Re: Masked characters

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:59 am
by Morbius
I couldn't resist commenting on this, as it's a issue/topic close to my heart:

I've tried to role play masked characters in the past, and it can be tricky. It's more dependent on who you are interacting with and how they receive your role playing. Unfortunately we don't always have the luxury to choose which characters we interact with all of the time though. I find the most effective way to go about it (speaking generally, and in my experience) is to have your 'disguise emote' of choice saved and ready to copy paste into an emote. It gets a bit tiresome, but it's effective to simply re-emote your disguise each time a new character joins in on the interaction. Keep it short and sweat, but concise so that people can read it quickly and understand it easily. I often throw in little reminder from time to time such as: "#me adjusts his mask with his free hand then nods in agreement." or whatever.

OOC shit is always annoying though. With a player base of such limited size people see your name online and they just know it's you. :roll: It was a bit easier when you could hide your character's name from the online list, but I understand that function has since been removed. A decision I'm still undecided about.

I suppose that in conclusion I would just like to see a simple IG item like a hood that can be double clicked to hide your name from everyone. I think this would solve most, if not all problems.

Re: Masked characters

Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:45 am
by S'rrt
[possibly off-topic]
Mephistopheles wrote:I encourage players to ignore this behavior and to continue roleplaying the way they want
What are you asking to ignore exactly? I don't mean to be funny, I genuinely do not know what you're referring to.

If you mean ignoring other players interrupting their RP to say "((that's forced RP))" in OOC and carry on what you're doing, I'm not sure that I agree with that. I think most people who would point out an instance of forced RP are experienced enough with RP to tell when something like that is going on; in the roughly a decade that I've been IG I've only seen 1-2 instances of someone being accused of forced RP, which has been with total dickbags like Valen (remember that guy?) or certain other POs who troll on intention. Your advice would definitely be sound when dealing with those kinds of people, the ones who no matter how you play with, only seem to cause you frustration.

If someone is experiencing repeated instances of OOC interruption to be reminded of their RP, maybe there's something there. Maybe the person isn't playing by the rules.
[/possibly off-topic]

When it comes to disguised RP: it could very well be that a masked character is everyone's victim, with most people instantly accommodating the knowledge of the character's name into their RP. Either that or they're just not doing a very good job at disguising their character (not talking about anyone specific). I believe that it involves way more leniency and less pride from the other POs, to give the disguised person a chance. I personally give that chance, however if something doesn't seem quite right (wears same clothes from before, or doesn't make any attempt to sound different, or all they've emoted is "is hooded" when it's NOT in the heat of a battle) I won't have that leniency for long.

Re: Masked characters

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:18 am
by Karl
It's now possible, engine-wise, to mask your name?

Re: Masked characters

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:35 am
by Estralis Seborian
No, and I don't think the game's architecture allows any manipulations of display of names in others' clients at this moment.

Re: Masked characters

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:04 am
by Seajiha
Well technically it wouldn't be that hard if you only want to hide the name of the character (or change it). However currently I experience that the development of the server is quite slow. Therefore, an implementation only based on the client would be the only possible one. But: this would shift responsibilities from the server to the client (creating a more "fat" client). In a "perfect" world this wouldn't be a problem. In an imperfect, people willing would be able to alter the client code, to view the information they want.

For my personal side: I wouldnt think that this (see above) wouldn't be a big problem with the current playerbase and maybe a sufficient placeholder until it'll be implemented from the server-side. However, I think there are some thinks which are more important right now for the development of the game; and as Estralis said before: They are quite low on manpower.

Re: Masked characters

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:57 am
by Karrock
However. I have a further question similar to previous topic. If there would be possible to add skills "hiding"/agility and "observation"/perception? So the char would have a "ghost" avatar or even be invisible if no one around would have higher "observation"/perception when he uses a skill.

This could solve this problem of masked chars partly.

What do you think?

EDIT: Skilling this would look like -> Use item or type a command to hide. Based on skill/attribute. If longer you stay in close to other chars who automatically (with no item, no command) do a test based on their skill/attribute and you are still hidden you get progress. If you are found by someone he gets progress. This might look strange for most the trainining hiding/observing but I'm sure people will train these in own groupes.

Re: Masked characters

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:16 pm
by ltgmkay
Here is a relevant mantis thread for you: http://illarion.org/mantis/view.php?id=11135

There is no intention currently to add engine support for disguises in the near future. It is surprisingly more work than may be anticipated to write a working and reasonably balanced solution to this. Current development resources (time) are just way too scarce to throw at this in the foreseeable future.

Further, this forum is not the proper place for proposals.

Re: Masked characters

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:53 am
by Karrock
I think if there was a game like Illa which support bad/evil/shady char I would leave this one. I think there are few thinking similar.
The game strongly lack skills like: hiding and stealing. And also hoods.
Without them doing any crime in game is almost impossible. I tried several times rob someone and I "got" only coppers. Mostly they reported it after. Then I tried mask. One char after that was chasing my char few weeks because other had "special feeling" and knows who was that. But this time it filled the cup and pours out. There is no option to get anything if victim won't decide that wants to lose item. Even of risk of pking.
I must much say thanks to those who robbed or tried to kill in my past my chars those times were great. This sucks much.

Re: Masked characters

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:08 am
by Achae Eanstray
I believe the original question has been answered so will close this thread. Most suggestions for this topic and others has been.. this is a roleplay game. If not in the engine, we are perfectly capable of roleplaying it if approved by game rules and the GM's. I hope all remember some people are still learning roleplay and we all must be tolerant of others..

Achae