Missing god

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Karrock
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Missing god

Post by Karrock »

At least one god is missing. While building history of my char I have discovered again types of love. Eros, Philia, Storge and Agape.
We have represents of Eros and Philia but don't of Storge and Agape. In game's books we can read that Salkamar has many paladins of Zhambra. I imagine salkamarian paladin as someone who fights for 'good case' I barely imagine one who fights in defence of friend who does evil things. How it's possible to become true paladin of philia in game? I try to play 'paladin' but I don't like idea of playing Agape's soldier. It's too much of christianity for me. Illarion lacks god of brotherly. If Zhambra means brotherly then he should be forbiden god in Albar.

EDIT: Philia means friendship and Agape means charity. Of course I imagine brotherly as idea of charity to unknown people.
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rakust dorenstkzul
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Re: Missing god

Post by rakust dorenstkzul »

While it's not an exact 1 to 1, i would class them as this:

Eros: Sirani
Philia: Zhambra
Storge: Oldra

Why oldra, you say?

http://illarion.org/illarion/goetter/us_bck_19.php

We take from this that the followers of Oldra have a familial love for young things, Some halfers call her the "All Mother" and revere her as such, the mother of all.
Her nature seems to be gentle, like a mother to a child.

As for Agape. I agree. There is no representative for it. But from what i've noted in my own studies is that the idea of Agape often ties with Omnipotence, which is more of a Monotheistic thing. It could also just be the same as you said - The creators intended to avoid a god which is similar to Yahweh
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Rincewind
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Re: Missing god

Post by Rincewind »

Charity is Ronagans business i say.
Those born to the streets or otherwise find themselves in the underbelly of life will often turn to Ronagan for guidance and wellbeing.The poor pray for help to survive another night, to get a bit of bread, or that some mercy may be shown on them. Ronagan and his underclass live by a code all to their own with many of his worshippers considering themselves to be brothers in arms.
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Vern Kron
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Re: Missing god

Post by Vern Kron »

It all depends on how you look at it. If you are looking for a god that sacrificed a great deal, surprisingly, Moshran gave up his sanity and acclaim in defending Illarion as a whole.

What I would advice is to remember that each of the gods of Illarion is not just a simple set of 'rules' or 'ideas', but they were living breathing individuals and even have a profound impact upon the world. While mortals may lean to assign specific traits to them, they are also 'people'. Reducing them down to mere principles misses the depth of what they actually are. So, ya know, play with the ideas a bit, basically. There is a great deal of flexibility.
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Karrock
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Re: Missing god

Post by Karrock »

Problem with friendship is within that you 'love' friend because you have similar way of view things.
He/she must deserve for your 'love'.
When charity motivates you. You 'love' someone because you feel mercy to him/her. Someone doesn't need deserve for your 'love'.
That means Zhambra cannot be god of charity because it's opposite value.
I know gods are only 'humans', but creating set of rules or ideas makes easier to understand them by followers.
And makes playing easier.
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Djironnyma
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Re: Missing god

Post by Djironnyma »

You are missing one important point: We are not playing DnD. Our gods have no fix domains. One may pray to Zhambra for love, one for friendship, one for charity and others may pray to Sirani for the same values. All of them could get response. The gods help these which impress them and which need their help. Theres nothing like a holy protocol which tells you, that you get no answer because you prayed to Oldra for a good fish catch and not to Tanora. A dwarf may ask even Irmorom for love and fish, an Albarian human may ask Zhambra for romantic love to his maiden or a elf could ask the five to protect the weak.

And the gods are not just humans. They were the first creatures the Five created but its no where said what race they have or what superpowers they may have (and even that is just a legend).

Anyway and to keep it short: It is not important to give the gods strict DnD like domains. Important is just that your char have a idea of his gods and followe these idea. It is normal and wanted that other chars may have a other ideas.
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Azure Lynch
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Re: Missing god

Post by Azure Lynch »

I would have to agree with dji. For a while my character believed all the stories of the God was lies based on the fact that moshran sacrificed himself to save illarion and then turned to kill them. No he thought the gods got jealous of the love.moshran was receiving so they make him look bad. They caused the suffering. And if he was asked for.him to prove this all he would say if all the gods truly loved illarion then there would be no mas. Or at least no monsters to deal havoc on the people. So there is alot of flexibility on how.you look at the gods from your character perspective. I'm glad there is no stuff rules. Cause it alous me to play a character that decided to quite falling moshran and not worry about being marked or destroyed. All cause he fell in love. So just remember flexibility. Is awesome on this aspect.
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Karrock
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Re: Missing god

Post by Karrock »

It was not my intention to force others to my vision but from philosophy we know difference between these types of love.
Sharing with love with everyone for Zhambra's follower is best way to become christian. Our chars have their values and few times my char had to reject tries of some people to become their friend. Did he lost his faith because of that? No, his faith only raised. I read first part of this article and I don't want to become christian in game but this article gave me some inspirations. I know it's too much of christian but it shows difference between these two kinds of love. Linking Agape to Zhambra makes him a Christ in my eyes. Please try to consider it.

Of course I'm not sharing with this article to convert people.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer ... phileo.htm

EDIT: I'm planning to change this char in priest-warrior or paladin in future so playing consistently has a big matter to me.
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Jupiter
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Re: Missing god

Post by Jupiter »

What? Christians? What? No Jesus, no Christians. To be a Christian does not mean "to have unconditional love for everyone" but to believe in Jesus Christ and his teachings (which may include unconditional love but is certainly not limited to that).
And maybe the gods have no unconditional love for the mortals. Maybe they will e.g. despise everyone who worships Moshran and won't care for them anymore regardless of what they do after that. So why would they then support unconditional love between mortals? I really don't see how we need to include something like Agape in the descriptions of the gods. You can discuss the nature of the love of the gods perfectly ingame (tough, personally, I would not use the term Agape. That has a too big Christian connotation).
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Nitram
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Re: Missing god

Post by Nitram »

Please keep in mind that any kind of religion present in the real world has no place in the world of Illarion. There may be some philosophies or ideas are taken from religions that exist in the real world, but the that the pantheon and the associated traits in the game along with any believes and religions that come from it are purely fictional and strictly not intended to be associated with real religions. This is simply to keep any religion based conflicts between the players out of the game and our community.

So even if you see some similarities between real existing religions and our in game religions they are still to be seen as purely fictional.

Beyond that Djironnyma explained it very well in his post.

Regards,
Nitram
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