Equipment and training?

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Janislov Blythe
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Equipment and training?

Post by Janislov Blythe »

So I tried to train my fighting skills a little yesterday, using the secret guide and I don't know if it's supposed to be this hard now, or if it's because of my equipment, but I couldn't fight any of the monsters I'm supposed to according to the guide. Most do enormous damage and I didn't gain any skill except for very little slashing in about 1 hour of fighting. So I was wondering.. how important is it that the level of gear is right for your skill and what exactly happens if it isn't? Will you take a lot more damage than when using appropriate gear or is the difference not that big and does it take a lot longer to train when your gear is too high or is it supposed to take this long at my skill lvl? I have 60 slashing, 75 parry and 69 heavy armor and my gear is the following: helmet, gloves and greaves lvl 90, chest lvl 60, boots lvl 20, shield lvl 80, sword lvl 70.

Thanks in advance,

Janislov
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Hew Keenaxe
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Re: Equipment and training?

Post by Hew Keenaxe »

Unless something has changed. I think you need to use equipment within 10 levels lower than your skill level. Higher level equipment will not help you gain levels. M it is 20 levels lower equipment to skill level. But it needs to be lower until your skill is high enough to use them.
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Ufedhin
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Re: Equipment and training?

Post by Ufedhin »

Oh my things have changed since that was written...things always change.. :lol:.Sometimes not for the better however , I would like to know what happened to the character heights has this gone in favor of universal blandness or what :evil: ?
Janislov Blythe
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Re: Equipment and training?

Post by Janislov Blythe »

So if I'm lvl 60 I have to use gear that's 50 - 60 or I won't be able to learn?
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Hew Keenaxe
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Re: Equipment and training?

Post by Hew Keenaxe »

If this has changed, I'm in the dark too. I have started a new character that has better armor than his skill level. I Haven't used them because I thought they wouldn't help. Maybe some clarification here?
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Nitram
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Re: Equipment and training?

Post by Nitram »

Ufedhin wrote:Sometimes not for the better however , I would like to know what happened to the character heights has this gone in favor of universal blandness or what :evil: ?
While unrelated to the topic... I can tell you: rest easy. There were some database changes that caused the height display to break. How ever the values required to display the height properly are still around. I am currently working at the required changes to get everything working again.

But it may take some more time until everything is working again, because there are quite many changes required.

Nitram
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Hew Keenaxe
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Re: Equipment and training?

Post by Hew Keenaxe »

Nitram wrote:
Ufedhin wrote:Sometimes not for the better however , I would like to know what happened to the character heights has this gone in favor of universal blandness or what :evil: ?
While unrelated to the topic... I can tell you: rest easy. There were some database changes that caused the height display to break. How ever the values required to display the height properly are still around. I am currently working at the required changes to get everything working again.

But it may take some more time until everything is working again, because there are quite many changes required.

Nitram
Totally unrelated.
Now about the question in this post?
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Rincewind
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Re: Equipment and training?

Post by Rincewind »

One can learn with all equipment.#

I bet the MC is your problem.
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Ufedhin
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Re: Equipment and training?

Post by Ufedhin »

Nitram wrote:
Ufedhin wrote:Sometimes not for the better however , I would like to know what happened to the character heights has this gone in favor of universal blandness or what :evil: ?
While unrelated to the topic... I can tell you: rest easy. There were some database changes that caused the height display to break. How ever the values required to display the height properly are still around. I am currently working at the required changes to get everything working again.

But it may take some more time until everything is working again, because there are quite many changes required.

Nitram

Arrrr! good thanks Nitram :D
now back to topic...sorry i have no idea much has changed since i last played but...i gather equipment closer to your fighting and armour level is desirable, so one gains full benefit not sure what full benefit is however.
Janislov Blythe
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Re: Equipment and training?

Post by Janislov Blythe »

Rincewind wrote:One can learn with all equipment.#

I bet the MC is your problem.
Considering that I hadn't played for well over two years before logging in yesterday, the MC should have been full, no?
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Q-wert
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Re: Equipment and training?

Post by Q-wert »

Your character should learn with any weapon or armour, no matter level of item or skill.
Especially noteable: Level 0 weapons are commonly used by characters of any level for sparring to increase their skill.

However there is (well, 'there should be', it is broken at the moment) a hefty malus if characters use items higher than their skill.

There are multiple things affecting the speed of sillgain:
  • - For gaining skills you need to do stuff within your skill range.
    Skill range = skill +/- 30. So if you attack monsters or characters who have defence skills 40 lower than your attack skill, you won't gain anything.

    -Time required for gaining a level in a skill grows exponentially,
    so progress naturally slows down with higher skills.

    -You have about the same amount of skillgain for the same playtime. (That is what the MC is about.)
    Two hours of roleplaying (and not doing anything skill-related) and one sparring yield the same as 3 hours of sparring. For details ask one of the veterans in teamspeak or irc.
Edit: Man, I am slow.

My personal experience for the best combat-learning:
  • -Do non skill related stuff for about 10-15 hours. Walk around, talk to people, do politics, sit at the palace and write forum posts.
    -Spar for 2-3 hours with someone in your skill range.
    -Repeat.
Also helpful: Enlist in some kind of guild. They usually can provide your character with equipment and sparring partners.

On MC:
MC does not get 'full'. Low MC=fast learning, high MC = slow learning. MC gets raised by anything that could yield skillgain. MC does have no maximum limit (in theory). MC lowers itself over time spent ingame (eventually lowering it as fast as it is gained). According to the function it should be reduced by ~50% in one hour, although time ticks seem to be slower than that. Practically it looses about 20% of the whole value in one hour. There used to be a way of looking up your MC, but that is (or will very timely be) removed.

If your MC was high when you played last time (even if it was two years ago) it is the same when you log back in.
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Rincewind
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Re: Equipment and training?

Post by Rincewind »

Janislov Blythe wrote:
Rincewind wrote:One can learn with all equipment.#

I bet the MC is your problem.
Considering that I hadn't played for well over two years before logging in yesterday, the MC should have been full, no?
Q-wert explained it very accurate :)

The MC doesn't change if you aren't logged in.
Janislov Blythe
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Re: Equipment and training?

Post by Janislov Blythe »

Q-wert wrote:Your character should learn with any weapon or armour, no matter level of item or skill.
Especially noteable: Level 0 weapons are commonly used by characters of any level for sparring to increase their skill.

However there is (well, 'there should be', it is broken at the moment) a hefty malus if characters use items higher than their skill.

There are multiple things affecting the speed of sillgain:
  • - For gaining skills you need to do stuff within your skill range.
    Skill range = skill +/- 30. So if you attack monsters or characters who have defence skills 40 lower than your attack skill, you won't gain anything.

    -Time required for gaining a level in a skill grows exponentially,
    so progress naturally slows down with higher skills.

    -You have about the same amount of skillgain for the same playtime. (That is what the MC is about.)
    Two hours of roleplaying (and not doing anything skill-related) and one sparring yield the same as 3 hours of sparring. For details ask one of the veterans in teamspeak or irc.
Edit: Man, I am slow.

My personal experience for the best combat-learning:
  • -Do non skill related stuff for about 10-15 hours. Walk around, talk to people, do politics, sit at the palace and write forum posts.
    -Spar for 2-3 hours with someone in your skill range.
    -Repeat.
Also helpful: Enlist in some kind of guild. They usually can provide your character with equipment and sparring partners.

On MC:
MC does not get 'full'. Low MC=fast learning, high MC = slow learning. MC gets raised by anything that could yield skillgain. MC does have no maximum limit (in theory). MC lowers itself over time spent ingame (eventually lowering it as fast as it is gained). According to the function it should be reduced by ~50% in one hour, although time ticks seem to be slower than that. Practically it looses about 20% of the whole value in one hour. There used to be a way of looking up your MC, but that is (or will very timely be) removed.

If your MC was high when you played last time (even if it was two years ago) it is the same when you log back in.

Thank you, that's very helpful! :D

Now, I'm not sure if it's because I have that bug that doesn't show you skill advance or because it just takes that long at this level, but:

After rping almost exclusively for at least 10 hours yesterday (one short interruption of about 20 min where I had to fight four or five monsters while exploring that seemed to be below my skill lvl anyway) I went to the lizards for a brief trial training and for the most part it works. My slashing weapons went from 60 to almost 61 and even my parry went from low 75 to almost 76. However, my heavy armor is still 69 and the little bar is still at the exact same spot. If those lizards are good enough to get my parry to 76, shouldn't they also be good enough to get my heavy armor to 70? (meaning, let's say the lizards have 60 attack skill, I should be able to get to 80 heavy armor and 80 parry from them, right? Or did I misunderstand?) Since I have no idea how fast leveling up combat skills is these days, I'm wondering if heavy armor just takes that insanely long or if I'm still doing something wrong?
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Uhuru
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Re: Equipment and training?

Post by Uhuru »

Janislov, try using armor that is at or below your skill level. Never above if you are trying to learn. I do not believe you will learn if it is above, at least, my character did not.
Ragorn
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Re: Equipment and training?

Post by Ragorn »

Equipment: You are doing nothing wrong, if you consider the red (warning) messages, which appear if you wear non suitable items.
Training: I am sure you will get additional good tips on efficient training if you ask around a bit in game.
Ranwyln
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Re: Equipment and training?

Post by Ranwyln »

If i remember right you will need to do your skill effevtively to gain some, e.g. Parry, if you dont parry you dont gain skill, weapon, if you miss all the time you dont gain skill.
There seems to be a random factor in it too that when you successfully use a skill there is a low chance to gain skill (you are able to watch that when you gain crafting skills like finsesmithing, the skill increase seems to be quick sometimes after doing a few actions than you do more actions without increase than again with a few actions a lot of increase)

For fighting, at the moment you can use each skill lvl of weapons/armour to gain some, but the effectivity of a lvl 100 Armor when you are at skill 60 will probably be lower as if you wear a lvl 60 one.

The difference in the skill gain between armour/weapon is, cause you use your weapon (actions) more often, while a lot of attacks of monsters just go through or are parried (if you want to train armour outside you should not use a shield and you should be patient or find monsters that dont harm you but give you skill). Best way to train armour effectively is to spar with others, (that works too if your opponent has a wooden sword) so you can beat on each other for a longer time without the need to regenerate life (try to find someone at your skill range or above yours), same goes for parry. This can be boring, but if you rp while you do train it can be a lot of fun.
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