Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

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Post by Nitram » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:28 am

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

It does not.

Also: Welcome back Enwell!

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Post by Drakkhan » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:52 am

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

On the topic of the MC, is it just a temporary slowing down of skill gain, until you stop "learning" or does the amount of skill you have overall reduce your ability to learn new things?

Also, I am returning after 5 years away from Illarion... wow, things have changed and WOW some things haven't! haha.. Nice to see that this community still exists. Hello again all!

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P.O. Salesh and Rand (if anyone remembers them? ha.)

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Post by Manron » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:29 am

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

Nope, i dont know you :twisted:

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Post by Jupiter » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:00 pm

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

Drakkhan wrote:On the topic of the MC, is it just a temporary slowing down of skill gain, until you stop "learning" or does the amount of skill you have overall reduce your ability to learn new things?
The first; the overall amount of skills is irrelevant. But you never stop learning, you can just get very slowly.

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Post by Mephistopheles » Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:39 am

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

Does bow and dagger need dex? or is dexterity just a crafting skill???? making a dwarf alchemist not sure whether to make em use a bow or make him warrior alchemist...??

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Post by Annabeth » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:10 pm

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

Mephistopheles wrote:Does bow and dagger need dex? or is dexterity just a crafting skill???? making a dwarf alchemist not sure whether to make em use a bow or make him warrior alchemist...??
Dexterity does determine damage to a very lesser degree, but it does not have a major effect on it nor does it have an effect on the learning curve of weapon skills.
Perception determines the rate you learn ranged weapons at.
Agility determines daggers.
A combination of agility, dexterity, perception and strength determine your damage however some to a lesser degree than others.

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Post by EnderDDT » Wed May 28, 2014 1:55 pm

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

So I noticed that on the first list "magic resistance" is listed as coming off of willpower, but the second list (the one divided up by stat) has it coming off of essance. So which is it, willpower or essance? Willpower seems more likely and fits better, but that doesn't necessarily mean that is what it actually is linked to.

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Wed May 28, 2014 5:46 pm

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

Neither, this skill is not in use.

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Post by EnderDDT » Wed May 28, 2014 10:19 pm

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

Are there any other skills on this list that are not currently in use? Are there any skills that have been added to the game since this list was compiled? And is the lack of this skill (or other skills) permanent or simply because development hasn't been done on them yet?

Thanks for the quick answer on the last question, btw.

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Post by Jupiter » Wed May 28, 2014 11:33 pm

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

The list is up to date.

Magic resistance will probably be replaced by something based on attributes.

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Post by EnderDDT » Thu May 29, 2014 2:44 am

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

Jupiter wrote:The list is up to date.

Magic resistance will probably be replaced by something based on attributes.
I was told that the "dodge" skill was removed, or possibly replaced by the armor skills. The armor skills are also not on the list, even though someone in the thread said that they were skills without a lead attribute. So I'm going to have to disagree on the whole "the list is up to date" thing.

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Thu May 29, 2014 6:46 am

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

https://github.com/Illarion-eV/Illarion ... .lua#L1717

Yes, dodge is not in use and the armour skills have no lead attribute (what is a very bad idea by the way).

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Post by EnderDDT » Thu May 29, 2014 2:33 pm

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

Was "Tactics" removed as well? I've heard various things from various people. And, if not, than how does one train it? People obviously wouldn't be saying it was gone if they had any points in the skill, afterall.

While I'm at it, I might as well ask the same two questions about he "poisoning" skill. Is it still in the game? And if so, than how does one train it?

(EDIT)
Actually, I just deciphered the link above me. Though, according to that, the "Dodge" skill is still active. The "Tactics" skill looks disabled. Color me confused.

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Post by Velisai » Thu May 29, 2014 4:09 pm

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

Poisoning is still there, but can't be actually used or (as far as I know) raised at the moment. A new poison system is going to be developed soon(TM).

Older chars got their dodge and tactics skills deleted and the total points/2 refunded to put into an armor skill of their choice, when armor skills were introduced.

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Post by EnderDDT » Fri May 30, 2014 3:42 am

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

Velisai wrote:Poisoning is still there, but can't be actually used or (as far as I know) raised at the moment. A new poison system is going to be developed soon(TM).

Older chars got their dodge and tactics skills deleted and the total points/2 refunded to put into an armor skill of their choice, when armor skills were introduced.
Thanks, that clears things up a lot.

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:25 am

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

The lead attributes will change slightly with next update:

--Dexterity: All crafting skills for final products and instruments (please remove these skills in future)
leadAttribTable[Character.tailoring]="dexterity"
leadAttribTable[Character.smithing]="dexterity"
leadAttribTable[Character.gemcutting]="dexterity"
leadAttribTable[Character.carpentry]="dexterity"
leadAttribTable[Character.cookingAndBaking]="dexterity"
leadAttribTable[Character.goldsmithing]="dexterity"
leadAttribTable[Character.glassBlowing]="dexterity"
leadAttribTable[Character.harp]="dexterity"
leadAttribTable[Character.horn]="dexterity"
leadAttribTable[Character.flute]="dexterity"
leadAttribTable[Character.lute]="dexterity"

--Constitution: All gathering skills
leadAttribTable[Character.herblore]="constitution"
leadAttribTable[Character.mining]="constitution"
leadAttribTable[Character.fishing]="constitution"
leadAttribTable[Character.firingBricks]="constitution"
leadAttribTable[Character.farming]="constitution"
leadAttribTable[Character.woodcutting]="constitution"

--Agility: Defensive fighting skills
leadAttribTable[Character.parry]="agility"
leadAttribTable[Character.heavyArmour]="agility"
leadAttribTable[Character.mediumArmour]="agility"
leadAttribTable[Character.lightArmour]="agility"

--Perception: Archery
leadAttribTable[Character.distanceWeapons]="perception"

--Strength: Offensive fighting skills
leadAttribTable[Character.slashingWeapons]="strength"
leadAttribTable[Character.wrestling]="strength"
leadAttribTable[Character.concussionWeapons]="strength"
leadAttribTable[Character.punctureWeapons]="strength"

--Essence: Alchemy
leadAttribTable[Character.alchemy]="essence"

--Intelligence: Magic
--No skills yet

--Willpower: Priests
--No skills yet

--Deactivated skills
--leadAttribTable[Character.dodge]="agility" --deactivated
--leadAttribTable[Character.tactics]="perception" --deactivated
--leadAttribTable[Character.magicResistance]="wilpower" --please reconsider once you work on magic
--leadAttribTable[Character.poisoning]="perception" --deactivated

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Post by Ufedhin » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:14 pm

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

Will these affect skill gain only or will it effect the ability of the skill its associated with? for example lower dexterity poorer smithed goods or will the skill rank determine the quality produced ?

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:51 pm

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

In that example, it is only the skill that matters. The more dexterity you have, the faster you learn and the faster you produce better products. In other examples, e.g. strength being the lead attribute of slashing weapons, the attribute itself also affects the damage. All in all - as long as you don't play a "min-max" character, you won't have to bother with such details. Keep in mind that it is pretty pointless to be the best in everything, just enjoy the game! If you are really interested in the game mechanics - we try to keep them as simple as possible - you can review the scripts here: https://github.com/Illarion-eV/Illarion-Content/

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Post by Ufedhin » Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:01 am

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

Estralis Seborian wrote:In that example, it is only the skill that matters. The more dexterity you have, the faster you learn and the faster you produce better products. In other examples, e.g. strength being the lead attribute of slashing weapons, the attribute itself also affects the damage. All in all - as long as you don't play a "min-max" character, you won't have to bother with such details. Keep in mind that it is pretty pointless to be the best in everything, just enjoy the game! If you are really interested in the game mechanics - we try to keep them as simple as possible - you can review the scripts here: https://github.com/Illarion-eV/Illarion-Content/
I totally agree ,and i have very little interest in these sort of game mechanic's ,however its better to know why all of a sudden one can no longer do certain things.

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:15 am

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

Can you specify? What exactly is there you cannot do anymore?

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Post by Ufedhin » Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:26 am

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

Estralis Seborian wrote:Can you specify? What exactly is there you cannot do anymore?
:D All good you answered my initial question i have no more questions on this .

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Post by EnderDDT » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

Estralis Seborian wrote:The lead attributes will change slightly with next update:

--Strength: Offensive fighting skills
leadAttribTable[Character.slashingWeapons]="strength"
leadAttribTable[Character.wrestling]="strength"
leadAttribTable[Character.concussionWeapons]="strength"
leadAttribTable[Character.punctureWeapons]="strength"
Does something else go into these skills besides the weapon itself and the skill? Up to this point it seems like it has been "high strength characters go concussion, high agi go piercing, good both go slashing", at least that is what I have been told in-game, but this seems like it would take away the main differentiation between them so that it just comes down to whatever weapon itself deals the most damage (asuming equil skill). Is this right or am I missing something?

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:15 am

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

The influence of attributes of fighting is rather complex. You can review the fighting system here: https://github.com/Illarion-eV/Illarion ... ghting.lua

In a nutshell: Dexterity, perception, agility, strength and constitution directly influence fighting actions in different ways. Once again (and for the last time): The lead attributes are affecting skillgain, how fast you learn.

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Post by Uhuru » Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:54 pm

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

Is this list still up to date?

And now that monsters have magic, could we add willpower for magic resistance?

Thanks!

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Post by ltgmkay » Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:37 pm

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

An update on the current affair of attributes, because I've been fielding a fair few questions about them lately:


Lead attributes for learning
  • Dexterity: All skills that process materials. E.g. Carpentry, gemcutting, etc.
  • Dexterity: Instruments, for now. It is not clear that these skills will continue to exist forever.
  • Constitution: All gathering skills. E.g. mining, farming, etc.
  • Agility: All defensive combat skills. All three armors and parry.
  • Perception: Archery
  • Strength: All other combat skills. I.e. blunt weapons, slashing, puncture, wrestling.
  • Essence: Alchemy
  • Intelligence: No skills active.
  • Willpower: No skills active.

The basic roles of attributes in combat
  • Damage dealt: Strength, Dexterity, and Perception directly increase your damage dealt. Strength has 3x more impact than either dexterity or perception in this regard. A character with STR, DEX, and PERC of 10 and no gems will have a bonus equivalent to a character with those three stats at 6 but a gem value of 22.
  • Parry chance: "Skill value gets multiplied by 0.5-1.5 (+/-50% of a normal player) scaled by agility." Please note that your parry skill is divided by 5 when calculating parry chance, so that a lvl 100 parry doesn't parry 100% of attacks. This is before the impact of your shield or weapon is added.
  • Damage reduction: The damage you receive is reduced in two ways. First, your armor absorbs a lot of damage. The damage that remains after this armor absorption is then multiplied by 14/CON. If you have a Constitution higher than 14, it is reduced. If your CON is lower than 14, it is increased. The potential reduction from your armor is significantly larger than the dampening from 20 constitution.
  • Hit Chance: 2% bonus to hit chance for 18 perc, 1.75% malus for 3 perc. Added onto weapon accuracy. Please note that critical hits are purely random chance.
Universal applications of attributes
  • Carry Weight: Your max load weight is STR * 500 + 5000.
  • Health Regeneration: Health regen is fairly complicated, but constitution is the only attribute involved. Higher constitution will yield faster regen. Please note: you will stop health regen if you are inactive for 5 minutes. This will likely kill you if you walk away from your computer for an hour while idly parrying a foe. CON does not change your hitpoints. All characters have the same HP! Also note, Essence serves a similar role in Mana regen, which is not currently relevant.
  • Amount Learned:
    • All skills require 10,000 "minor points" to increase in level. 1->2 and 99->100 require you to learn the same amount. You just learn different quantities per hour at those levels, mostly in the form of failing to learn for an action. At level 99, you fail to learn from 99% of actions even if the actions are of appropriate difficulty to raise you to level 100.
    • INT affects the amount learned for ALL skills in a fairly small way, and the lead attribute for a skill affects it in a larger way. An INT of 10 has no impact, an INT of 0 would reduce the quantity learned from an action by 10%, and an INT of 20 would increase the quantity learned by 10%. I.e. each point of INT increases your quantity earned by 1%.
    • The lead attribute for a skill will change the amount learned by -50% to +50% for 0 to 20 points in the attribute. Each point in the lead attribute has a 5% impact on the quantity learned.
    • Given the choice between increasing INT or increasing the lead attribute for a skill if that is the only skill being learned, the lead attribute is more valuable. If learning a diverse range of skills, more INT can be more beneficial.
    • Please note that the impact of your MC on skillgain absolutely dwarfs the impact of attributes. Max MC (100% of time IG spent skilling) will reduce your gains by 95%, if not more. The gains approach zero as your MC approaches infinity. Minimized MC (0.5% of time IG spent skilling) will multiply your gains by 1000%! A detailed discussion of MC is relevant for a different post.
  • Number of actions you can accomplish per minute: Higher AGI allows you to essentially operate the game faster. You run faster, attack faster, produce items faster, etc. This is because AGI is used to determine your generation of "action points" or "move points" per second and every action requires some quantity of action points. High AGI just simply lets you do more in less time. This is a pretty complex system which deserves explanation in another post if desired.
  • Quality of items created: Attributes have 0 impact on this. It is only listed because it is a common misconception. Sorry alchemists.
  • Ability to locate maps: Perception is used in determining how near you must be to a treasure in order for the text to change. Higher PERC will make it easier to find the map location.
  • Magic Resistance: Willpower dampens damage received from magic attacks. This includes the poison clouds from spider queens as well as normal magical attacks.

Please let me know if I have any mistakes in here, left anything significant out, or anybody wants to know how attributes impact a certain activity.

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Post by Tyan Masines » Tue May 02, 2017 9:37 am

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

ltgmkay wrote:Please let me know if I have any mistakes in here, left anything significant out, or anybody wants to know how attributes impact a certain activity.
Hey, first of all thank you for the thorough explanation. I've had one question: Is the impact of CON on DMG reduction static, or dynamic/does it scale? Meaning, does 14 to 15 have the same impact as 19 to 20 (e.g. 5% or sth.), or does it become lower the higher we get, e.g. 14 to 15 gives 5% DMG reduction, but 19 to 20 gives 1% DMG reduction. I remember it was (or was supposed to be) like this once, but it might have changed, too.

Thanks in advance!

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Post by ltgmkay » Tue May 02, 2017 9:24 pm

Re: Attributes and their use / Attribute und ihr Nutzen

Tyan Masines wrote: Does 14 to 15 have the same impact as 19 to 20 (e.g. 5% or sth.)

Thanks in advance!
TL;DR: It tapers off.

The impact of CON can be represented as a sequence from 1 to 26 (a dwarf on potions and rabbit dishes) where each element is 14/N. The values of that sequence as percentages would be:
1: 1400%, 2: 700%, 3: 467%, 4: 350%, 5: 280%, 6: 233%, 7: 200%, 8: 175%, 9: 156%, 10: 140%, 11: 127%, 12: 117%, 13: 108%, 14: 100%, 15: 93%, 16: 87.5%, 17: 82.4%, 18: 77.8%, 19: 73.7%, 20: 70%, 21: 66.7%, 22: 63.6%, 23: 60.9%, 24: 58.3%, 25: 56%, 26: 53.8%.

So from 14 to 15 you get a change of 7%, and from 18 (human max) to 19 (lizard max) you get a change of 3.9%. Or, in other words, the one extra point lizards get in CON shouldn't make a game-breaking difference.

Edit: There have been a few changes since I made that last post. Most significantly, the impact of gems relative to attributes in damage dealt has changed and learning has changed to deterministic instead of a random model (praise be to Elara's triumph of Nargun).

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