Illarion Gods

A place to ask beginner questions to be answered by other players. / Ein Platz für Anfängerfragen, die von anderen Spielern beantwortet werden.

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Estralis Seborian
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Post by Estralis Seborian »

Uh, an update to this was published twice as news entry (does nobody read those?):

http://illarion.org/general/us_news.php
In this context, we'd like to offer you the opportunity to submit your elaborated and detailed(!!!) proposal how to change existing features or suggestions for new features. For this, please use the project "Feature request". Please be aware that we need detailed informations to realize a feature. "Make Illarion 3D and implement horses!" is not a proposal.

We'd be happy if you use this way only to submit your proposals directly to the development process of Illarion!
Also, we prompt you to request new features or rebalancing of features at the Mantis system. Especially small issues that spoil your fun should be reported as soon as possible so we can include them into the update.

http://illarion.org/mantis/index.php
:arrow: If you have a really good proposal (not: just an idea), submit it using Mantis.
David Turner
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Post by David Turner »

Then what is the point of the proposal's board and why is it locked to non-members?

Yeah, I read that. I was thinking about starting a topic asking about that but I didn't want to end up making it too obvious to everyone and so end up with the developers being swamped by loads of newbies (or, more likely, noobs) throwing out every suggestion that they had. Yes, the rules say "only well thought out suggestions", but the rules also used to say "do a quick search of a topic before adding a new suggestion on it" and half the problem was that this wasn't followed either. At least before there was the option for the suggestions to be player refined and moderated before it got to the level where a Dev might take notice (though, who knows what that level might have been), that isn't really true of mantis.
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Estralis Seborian
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Post by Estralis Seborian »

David Turner wrote:Then what is the point of the proposal's board and why is it locked to non-members?
I have no idea what the use of the proposal board is currently. The big difference is that Mantis is not used for discussing ideas. No dev reads 40 posts to sort out the actual proposal. So, if there is a good proposal, submit it to Mantis and if it is not a good proposal, don't submit ;-).

The original problem wasn't that noobs post stupid things on the proposal board. The problem was that developers ceased reading it. As a rule of thumb, no post beyond the 3rd in a topic was read by a developer. Ever. So, all this discussing about "ideas" was in vain. With Mantis, we have a powerful tool to organise and assess issues. Not for discussing them to death.

In conclusion: We appreciate proposals. There are currently two feature requests, only. A flood looks differently ;-).
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orgis
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Post by orgis »

Damien wrote:To limit orcs just to moshran is to abandon a lot of possibilities, and a very good proof that the players have not even read the description of the orcish race nor the creeds description for the orcs. :P
For orcs, there are a lot "cooler" options around than just to make them moshran cultists. The tribal ones usually have a whole pantheon which is being kinda "rotated" through the year, and i've never ever seen a Fire orc ingame. Now THAT could cause a shitload of action just amongst orcs.
Well having tried to be a orc that didn't worship Moshy at one point... lets just say there's little choice if you run in to other orcs :lol: Though I'd agree. I'd love to see a clan or tribe of orcs fighting the usual bunch :D
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Post by David Turner »

Estralis Seborian wrote:I have no idea what the use of the proposal board is currently.
lol, well, at least that answers one question I was wondering about. I wasn't really expecting "nobody knows" as the answer, but at least it is truthful.
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Kevin Lightdot
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Post by Kevin Lightdot »

orgis wrote:
Well having tried to be a orc that didn't worship Moshy at one point... lets just say there's little choice if you run in to other orcs :lol: Though I'd agree. I'd love to see a clan or tribe of orcs fighting the usual bunch :D
I tried that with Rukka too, when Rugh was still there it worked pretty ok, since he 'accepted' it and tried to get her to follow Moshran at every turn, after he left the first time, it became kind of impossible to my view.

Maybe we can try a bit again this vacation if you want, I didn't even know anyone else was interested in a 'different' orc, exept for a few flower orcs that go OH HAPPY DAY.
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Post by David Turner »

orgis wrote:
Damien wrote:To limit orcs just to moshran is to abandon a lot of possibilities, and a very good proof that the players have not even read the description of the orcish race nor the creeds description for the orcs. :P
For orcs, there are a lot "cooler" options around than just to make them moshran cultists. The tribal ones usually have a whole pantheon which is being kinda "rotated" through the year, and i've never ever seen a Fire orc ingame. Now THAT could cause a shitload of action just amongst orcs.
Well having tried to be a orc that didn't worship Moshy at one point... lets just say there's little choice if you run in to other orcs :lol: Though I'd agree. I'd love to see a clan or tribe of orcs fighting the usual bunch :D
I, for one, look forward to a Orc worshiper of Bragon (and/or a fire ork) if only to rearrange people's concepts of what an Orc is. Currently playing an Ork with even near average intelligence or understanding will make people assume that you don't know the races backstory or character, when the choice of deity can do a lot to for justifying why many characters choose to develop in a direction that many others do not.

In my opinion choosing a deity and giving even a passable reason for that choice is a really simple and easy way to put together an entire backstory with very little difficulty. It includes motivations, can inform or decide stats, can easily be filled in with experiences, and can help a character stand out while also making them setting appropriate. Saying "there are no gods" or ignoring them in this setting is like saying "there is no European Union" or trying to ignore it if you live in modern day Europe, the possibility only exists for the incredibly naive or backwoods person. Disagreeing with or hatred of some or all gods is legitimate, however, just as it is in the real life example.
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orgis
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Post by orgis »

Kevin Lightdot wrote:I tried that with Rukka too, when Rugh was still there it worked pretty ok, since he 'accepted' it and tried to get her to follow Moshran at every turn, after he left the first time, it became kind of impossible to my view.

Maybe we can try a bit again this vacation if you want, I didn't even know anyone else was interested in a 'different' orc, exept for a few flower orcs that go OH HAPPY DAY.
Sounds like an idea, I'm kinda rusty due to me time as a halfer though. Need to have a look about the orcs back ground again :)

Whilst I agree to some extent I'd disagree on the idea that its just backwards people who'd say there could be no 'gods' in such a sense. It takes a rather clever person to think for themselves, if you rp a char who doesn't have faith in any gods I'd kinda expect a reason for such and probably some beliefs to take place in their place. I used to have a Halfer that would argue to no end that everything is just chaos, had a few interesting talks with serio :lol:
David Turner
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Post by David Turner »

IDK, It is kinda hard to say "there are no gods" when they actually show up in person from time to time and when multiple people have seen one or more of them in person. You can disagree on their stature or on the idea that they should be worshiped or their goodness or any number of other things; but saying that they don't exist is just stupid. Heck, even if they didn't show up in person, if their effects are directly evident (as they apparently are) than that also leaves no excuse for the "they don't exist" belief.
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Post by Rhombus »

David Turner wrote:IDK, It is kinda hard to say "there are no gods" when they actually show up in person from time to time and when multiple people have seen one or more of them in person. You can disagree on their stature or on the idea that they should be worshiped or their goodness or any number of other things; but saying that they don't exist is just stupid. Heck, even if they didn't show up in person, if their effects are directly evident (as they apparently are) than that also leaves no excuse for the "they don't exist" belief.
I disagree. In real life, people claim to have seen God, angels, and miracles, but people hear their testimonies and choose not to believe. In the same way, in the Illarion universe, you can disagree with others and be skeptical. If many people have seen Gods, you can do what people do in real life, say they are delusional, insane, and so on. It isn't "plain stupid". It's you playing your character the way you want to play him/her, and maybe by playing your character in such a way, a GM will get on one of the God characters and give you a divine intervention.
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orgis
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Post by orgis »

David Turner wrote:IDK, It is kinda hard to say "there are no gods" when they actually show up in person from time to time and when multiple people have seen one or more of them in person. You can disagree on their stature or on the idea that they should be worshiped or their goodness or any number of other things; but saying that they don't exist is just stupid. Heck, even if they didn't show up in person, if their effects are directly evident (as they apparently are) than that also leaves no excuse for the "they don't exist" belief.
Ahh but just because they are more powerful doesn't mean they exsit :P

William, a powerful mage could go about granting stuff to people who have never seen a mage before, there's a good chance they'd worship him as such. Now just because we haven't seen anyone stronger than or more powerful/wise/just plain daft doesn't mean that said gods are the major players in said universe. It only means they could take the whole island out in a second
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Post by Flux »

I almost started a religion based around Nitram once, considering that was the most godlike being my char had ever witnessed :P
David Turner
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Post by David Turner »

Rhombus wrote:
David Turner wrote:IDK, It is kinda hard to say "there are no gods" when they actually show up in person from time to time and when multiple people have seen one or more of them in person. You can disagree on their stature or on the idea that they should be worshiped or their goodness or any number of other things; but saying that they don't exist is just stupid. Heck, even if they didn't show up in person, if their effects are directly evident (as they apparently are) than that also leaves no excuse for the "they don't exist" belief.
I disagree. In real life, people claim to have seen God, angels, and miracles, but people hear their testimonies and choose not to believe. In the same way, in the Illarion universe, you can disagree with others and be skeptical. If many people have seen Gods, you can do what people do in real life, say they are delusional, insane, and so on. It isn't "plain stupid". It's you playing your character the way you want to play him/her, and maybe by playing your character in such a way, a GM will get on one of the God characters and give you a divine intervention.
The gods in Illarion are much more tangable than those in RL. Look at my earlier example for a better analogy. They are easily as active or more active as a overarching multinational organization that directs/oversees the actions of different nations. If someone were to say "NATO doesn't exist" than you would be justified in thinking that they were an idiot (or severely naive and misinformed, at the very least). You can go to the NATO headquarters and see it exists in much the same way that you can go to certain IG festivals and see the gods exist. That doesn't keep a character from not believing they exist, but the expected reaction should appropriately be of shock that someone would believe something so silly.

And, for the record, there are some people in RL who would believe you are something of an idiot if you don't believe that there is such a thing as a God (or great force or creator or whatever). The norm or abnormality of that is a society thing, mostly. Western more modern culture is fairly a-religious (I'll do my thing without god interfering either way) and so it makes it easier to believe it there is no such being (if I can do my thing without him/her, than mabie he isn't important or doesn't exist). Illarion, however, is not such a setting.
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orgis
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Post by orgis »

Flux wrote:I almost started a religion based around Nitram once, considering that was the most godlike being my char had ever witnessed :P
How many times would you say there's been a god pop in for just a nosey Flux? I think I can remember only one time
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Post by Flux »

I've never seen a god ig in 5 years. Or emissaries or the like.
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Blay
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Post by Blay »

I have. At least two.
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Post by Rhombus »

David Turner wrote:The gods in Illarion are much more tangable than those in RL. Look at my earlier example for a better analogy. They are easily as active or more active as a overarching multinational organization that directs/oversees the actions of different nations.


Apparently they haven't been so active.
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Sirith-Rym
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Post by Sirith-Rym »

Actually, Oldra showed up last week.
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Das Auge
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Post by Das Auge »

Blay wrote:I have. At least two.
three :D
wilf
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Post by wilf »

David Turner wrote:
Magdha Tiefenerz wrote:
wilf wrote:
here a place for a proposal:
"!god" for praying?
the pray goes to the gms and because of the "!god" they know quickly that it is an prayer. So they can choose if they reakt on it or not.

I don´t know if its necessary but it is an spontaneous idea from me^^
I have proposed a special praying command quite a while ago...and what shall I say...it was declined. You can find the appropriate discussion here. Unfortunately it is in German only.
And you can only reply if you are a member. They got tired of new players trying to improve the game with constant ideas that were no good (seriously, look back and you will see how bad some of them were). Not that the good ideas got much apparent notice by the GMs either (in terms of change), they just wanted fewer of them.
thanks guys... but im no noob^^

*look at the link*
Oh!
i´ve already suggested this proposal ... ^^" i had just been in my mind i think^^

but back to topic^^
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Nalzaxx
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Post by Nalzaxx »

Sirith-Rym wrote:Actually, Oldra showed up last week.
I was under the impression that directly playing the Gods was forbidden.
Unless I'm missing something.
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Post by Zot »

GM's are allowed to play gods. ;)
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Estralis Seborian
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Post by Estralis Seborian »

It is always interesting what people think what is "forbidden"... Any source for this rumour?

It should be noted that gods usually don't appear in person, but what you might see is an avatar. So, no, you cannot PK Moshran and loot his armour.
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Nalzaxx
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Post by Nalzaxx »

The source was the GM forums.

I was told the problem was everything the Gods did would be taken as canon by players.
So playing Moshran and saying, "All Orcs must wearer daisy chains to show their devotion."
Would mean it was thenceforth an unshakeable commandment from that God.
And playing Bragon and getting pwned by Matt would have some serious ramifications too.

So the conclusion was. You can give signs and interact with the players in a non-direct way.
But running around as Nargun himself was off limits.

But then, maybe I'm wrong, or it was an old thread, or things have changed.
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Estralis Seborian
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Post by Estralis Seborian »

Nalzaxx wrote:things have changed.
:P
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Nalzaxx
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Post by Nalzaxx »

Excellent.

I look forwards to PKing some dieties in the future.
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Post by Koboldshroud »

Pking a gm? this is possible?
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Nalzaxx
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Post by Nalzaxx »

If you have enough Molotov's.
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Post by Koboldshroud »

time to hunt goblins then
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Post by Grim_banned »

OH LAWL!

I look forward to the day when a few bored GMs that at the moment dont pay enough attention, get their God chars PKd! :twisted: Lets see what turn IG religion takes that day, hahaha :lol: :lol:
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