Petetion

Pronon Palmsuger · Post by **Pronon Palmsuger** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:10 am

I feel that the walls surronding the town must be destroyed. They are gaudy and slow travel. I feel no safer with them, When I see people running from zombies the zombies merely chase them into town. The Grey Rose buildiung also put up some Pinnacle that slows Travel Immensly. If nothing else these need to be removed.

Pronon Palmsuger

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:13 am

I agree, Also

The gates on the walls, arent well guarded.

I saw the bodies several days ago.

~unsigned~

Brendan Mason · Post by **Brendan Mason** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:14 am

Pronon, this matter doesn't really concern us, what with us living a few miles away in Greenbriar.

Brendan

Pronon Palmsuger · Post by **Pronon Palmsuger** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:17 am

Brendan. I am a citizen of Trollsbane as well and I am there often to find traders and merchants I think it very much concerns me.

Pronon Palmsuger · Post by **Pronon Palmsuger** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:45 am

So far it seems very few people want the walls to stay...

Crosis · Post by **Crosis** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:51 am

Pronon,
I made a petition like this once. I really had no success, and it just seemed foolish of me afterward.

The town guard depends on the walls to help keep villains out of town. I doubt they will be taken down, though they could be changed to make travel easier.

PS: I am councilor for a reason Pronon, if you want to change something in Lyrenzia please tell me and I will present it to the other councilors.

Crosis Smallburrow
Founder of the Evergreen Halflings
Councilor of the Lyrenzia Foundation

Kale · Post by **Kale** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:00 am

To the Hobbits,
Yes it might not work but it also shows your courage to stand up and say "no we do not want these walls."

I say bravo to all of you. I also hate the walls it doest keep monsters out if there was an attack and the mosters pluged the ways out we are all dead. But if the walls were down we could all be free.

Bravo,

Kale Orton

Pronon Palmsuger · Post by **Pronon Palmsuger** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:08 am

shrugs as he reads Crosis' reply

I didn't even think about that Crosis. I'm sorry. But I don't really feel any safer with these walls. I often pass through trolls bane to get some sand but now I must change the way I get there and It takes too much time.

-edit by Keikan-
This is not the place for such an OOC Discussion.

Albernon · Post by **Albernon** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:34 am

Sorry, but to say that the walls do not help in defense is simply laughable. There is no general in the world who would say that a 10 feet wall surrounding the town you're trying to protect doesn't help. The walls are most important when we need to fend of a impending large scale attack. Of course it doesn't do much if you're running away from a monster to an open unguarded gate in those instances, but that doesn't make the walls useless when it counts most. No, and don't tell me that Draken Vorkalion can teleport, because I'll be damned if some other monster horde leader who can't teleport comes along after we take the wall down.

Taking down the walls would only provide travel convenience while opening our town to all sorts of potential danger. I don't see how anyone could think it was worth it unless they were thinking as if life was only a game.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:44 am

The town survived Drahkens and Ashkatuuls terror without the walls. Why wouldn't they do so now?

Grant Herion

Albernon · Post by **Albernon** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:00 am

And you were there through all the battles to count for me how many people lost their lives to do it, right?

I might survive a cold winter night with nothing but rags on and half my strength drained, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to wear a coat next time if I had one.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:57 am

The walls are a sign of cowardice towards our enemies and should be removed. I have seen many deaths without the walls and I have seen many deaths with the walls constructed. And deaths are on the rise, thanks to the fact that Lyrenzia and the town guard feel that its safer, therefore they are less observant to things such as spies and shadowy figures.

The walls are an eyesore and are confining. Not only do they keep things out, but they keep things in. The walls are a trap, or rather, a double-edged sword. You will keep out some of the bad, but trade will be worsened and you will keep in some of the equally vile. The town would be much better off without the walls. We have a natural river running through the southern half of town, so the town guard would really only have to observe the northern and eastern sects of town. The west leads to few things other than dense forest and a huge body of water, which means the western sect is mostly safe.

And with the removal of the walls, if Lyrenzia wanted to show how much it actually wanted the prosperity of its citizens to rise (or that Lyrenzia even cares about its citizens), Lyrenzia could break down the walls and make something more useful, such as a water-well near the large expanse of land by the Fluffy Sheep Tavern. Or even better, with all that stone, Lyrenzia could provide housing for at least ten or more citizens.

In short, no, the walls should not stay.

Cain S. Freemont

Galim · Post by **Galim** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:12 pm

-Edit by Keikan-

No OOC on RPG Galim.

Falk vom Wald · Post by **Falk vom Wald** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:44 pm

When ever did you hear from townsfolk razing down their own stronghold? What a foolish idea, coming straight from perfidious brains that intend nothing else then paving the way for the enemies of Trollsbane and Lyrenzia.

Whatever they may tell you, brave cityzens of Trollsbane, do not believe them any word.

Guillermo Ballesta · Post by **Guillermo Ballesta** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:00 pm

as Guillermo reads through the parchment he starts to laugh

whould be interesting to know how many of the anonymous voters are actually enemies of Trollsbane.

Saying that the walls are a sign of cowardience is as smart as saying a sword is a sign of cowardience.

Fortunately the inhabitants of our city are not as fool as you think.

sig.
Guillermo Ballesta

Guillermo Walks away laughing

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:14 pm

Guillermo Ballesta wrote:as Guillermo reads through the parchment he starts to laugh

whould be interesting to know how many of the anonymous voters are actually enemies of Trollsbane.

Saying that the walls are a sign of cowardience is as smart as saying a sword is a sign of cowardience.

Fortunately the inhabitants of our city are not as fool as you think.

sig.
Guillermo Ballesta

Guillermo Walks away laughing

It would also be interesting to know how many anonymous votes for keeping the walls are by the same person. Strange that a one-sided petition would suddenly become a tie.

No, Sir Ballesta, you are wrong. Saying the walls are a sign of cowardice is not like saying a sword is. With a sword, you are not hiding away from everything. You are willing to fight. Building walls shows cowardice because it shows you are too afraid of what's outside to even bother defending it with your own blood.

I speak to defend Troll's Bane, not Lyrenzia. Lyrenzia speaks to defend itself. There has never been a time where Lyrenzia has not first thought of themselves before the citizens. I would give my life for Troll's Bane, had I not the strong belief that Lyrenzia would claim that my life went to defending wall-building cowards.

Cain S. Freemont

John Irenicus · Post by **John Irenicus** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:31 pm

To Grant Herion and Kale Orton:

I think you even don't have the right to vote here, because you are no citizen of the town Trolls Bane anymore and you would only use the non-walls to get into town without to be seen.

so the town guard would really only have to observe the northern and eastern sects of town. The west leads to few things other than dense forest and a huge body of water, which means the western sect is mostly safe.

Walk along the borders, don't sleep, don't eat, don't drink, don't talk. Just try to keep a huge place save from invaders at one time. Try it. Fail. See. Understand.

John Irenicus

Albernon · Post by **Albernon** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 12:13 am

According to your logic Cain Freemont, don't ever wear any kind of protective wear or clothing if you go into battle, because then that would be a sign of cowardice too. And you will tell us that we should not live in houses or use doors anymore, because it is also cowardly to keep out things we don't want to intrude? Clearly, a wall aids us in combat by protecting valuable lives, like a shield or a piece of armor. I would have thought an elf would have appreciated this simple concept.

You think it's all of a sudden honorable to spill the blood of our citizens when we can use a wall to help defend ourselves instead? And you say Lyrenzia doesn't care about it's people's well being? I think you don't care about their well being. You don't even speak with logic anymore. There is no general in the world that would say that giant walls around the town he is trying to protect is not useful. You only care about your own personal prejudice against Lyrenzia fueled by your own narrow view of what you considered to be oppresion. Either that, you you just think life is a game.

I have no proof of what is in your heart, but only infer with heated emotion, as you always like to do the same for Lyrenzia and anything else you are against. That's all you ever do, make inferences about how Lyrenzia is selfish and lieing, and how anything Lyrenzia does somehow magically explains someone else's misfornute.

Please tell me... who exactly is this "Lyrenzia" this is so evil or selfish hmm? It would take the majority of the councilors for "Lyrenzia" to do something, so then the majorjity are selfish and greedy? Care to name that selfish majority? And if they were, you think all the members of those guilds would not select a different reperesentitives for themselves instead? Are those 100 plus people in the guilds different from the other citizens somehow? They live inside the town too? They want to eat, sleep, and live with each other in peace too? They have the same needs as any other normal citizens. What do they have to gain by not wanting what's best for the people of Troll's Bane which includes themselves?

Albernon · Post by **Albernon** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 12:18 am

So what's your point? In regards to how it's possible for "Lyrenzia" to do something evil or selfish without the 100 plus members of their guilds allowing so?

((edit: Board bug. My post should come after Fooser's first one.))

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:04 am

Well... there's a single argument.
Have you seen any monsters appearig in the midst of town or falling into the defender's backs since the walls are there ?

...See.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:26 am

No Albernon, the majority havent even been heard from.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:52 am

Yes. When Rot Worms attacked, and when ogres invaded the shores.

Grant Herion

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:10 am

Again I point out the recent slaughterings of the guards at the walls.

~unsigned~

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:46 am

Albernon wrote:According to your logic Cain Freemont, don't ever wear any kind of protective wear or clothing if you go into battle, because then that would be a sign of cowardice too. And you will tell us that we should not live in houses or use doors anymore, because it is also cowardly to keep out things we don't want to intrude? Clearly, a wall aids us in combat by protecting valuable lives, like a shield or a piece of armor. I would have thought an elf would have appreciated this simple concept.

You are truly dim to the subject I am speaking of. Surrounding a town with walls is nothing like wearing armour. Wearing armour does not center a large group of people into one collective area so they may easily be slaughtered. Wearing armour actually protects the body. These walls only hold in the people of town from dangers outside it, right? Wrong. These walls only make people fear what is on the outside, when really whatever is out there could EASILY enter by killing a few guards. It has been done before, I have seen the slain bodies of many town guards.
The walls protect no one when rot worms and ogres seem to enter the perimeters rather simply. The walls protect no one when assassins sneak in, slaughter guards, and sneak back out. The walls protect no one when an opposing force really wishes to enter. Also, no nature-loving elf would ever appreciate such confining, unnatural structures such as crude, 10-foot stone walls.

Albernon wrote:You think it's all of a sudden honorable to spill the blood of our citizens when we can use a wall to help defend ourselves instead? And you say Lyrenzia doesn't care about it's people's well being? I think you don't care about their well being. You don't even speak with logic anymore. There is no general in the world that would say that giant walls around the town he is trying to protect is not useful. You only care about your own personal prejudice against Lyrenzia fueled by your own narrow view of what you considered to be oppresion. Either that, you you just think life is a game.

No, I never said it was honourable to spill the blood of citizens. You are simply adding your own words. Yes, I say Lyrenzia does not care about its people. When a government remains neutral without knowing its citizens by name and face, it does not care about its people. When a government can so easily cast aside any member of its community that it wishes, it does not care about its people. Of course I hate Lyrenzia. And yet, no one has bothered to ask why. Maybe because they don't care? Well, I'll tell you why anyway. Lyrenzia destroyed the true Troll's Bane long ago, when it first forced its way into power. By forcing the other guilds to become a part of the Foundation or lose power, Lyrenzia damned Troll's Bane and everything and everyone in her borders. I have lived in these lands longer than the dream of Lyrenzia has even existed, yet did anyone ask my opinion about such a government? No. Did anyone ask my friends, whom have also been living here longer than Lyrenzia has existed? No. You Lyrenzia scum just took it all for yourselves. You claimed ownership of the land. How disgusting. You say I never provide reasons or proof, well that is because Lyrenzia removes all of its shady history from the walls. I have seen many torn up parchments regarding Lyrenzia. I know this to be true. Anyone who does any extensive research on the matter would know this.

Albernon wrote:I have no proof of what is in your heart, but only infer with heated emotion, as you always like to do the same for Lyrenzia and anything else you are against. That's all you ever do, make inferences about how Lyrenzia is selfish and lieing, and how anything Lyrenzia does somehow magically explains someone else's misfornute.

Please tell me... who exactly is this "Lyrenzia" this is so evil or selfish hmm? It would take the majority of the councilors for "Lyrenzia" to do something, so then the majorjity are selfish and greedy? Care to name that selfish majority? And if they were, you think all the members of those guilds would not select a different reperesentitives for themselves instead? Are those 100 plus people in the guilds different from the other citizens somehow? They live inside the town too? They want to eat, sleep, and live with each other in peace too? They have the same needs as any other normal citizens. What do they have to gain by not wanting what's best for the people of Troll's Bane which includes themselves?

Has anyone in the Lyrenzia Foundation EVER asked how townsfolk actually feel about the Foundation? Has Lyrenzia ever conducted a survey of how well the Foundation is run? If you want to see where your loyalties truly lie, do so. Show that you give a damn what happens to the people. SHOW the people that you are not a bunch of worthless, greedy, selfish sacks of scum.
Actions speak louder than words. Hell, maybe you will even get an apology from me if you manage to prove me wrong.

Cain S. Freemont

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:47 am

If you do not agree with the doing of Lyrenzia, try to become elected by the registered citizens and try to implement your opinion within Lyrenzia.

Otherwise, the advice of Lyrenzia considers each opinion, which makes any sense and which is written to Lyrenzia.

------------------
Lennier
Noble Knight of the Grey Rose
Councilor of Lyrenzia
Councilor of SMACC

Guillermo Ballesta · Post by **Guillermo Ballesta** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 12:06 pm

So, to speak clearly, its about lyrenzia...not about the walls, Sir Freemont.

At least I hope so, because its really the first time in my life that I hear that walls do not protect a town.

A town without protection, especially in a conflictive area, like our island, is something I havent seen in my life.

You say that these walls only make people fear what is on the outside?

There are two gates and whoever wishes to go out is able to do it, in fact I dont really know much people who stay inside their whole life, or even for a whole day.

You say that whatever is out there could EASILY enter by killing a few guards?

If we had no walls it whould enter without opposition. And the fact that it has to face Guards implicits that it has to fight, that alone makes many dangers stay away.

You say the walls protect no one when assassins sneak in, slaughter guards, and sneak back out?
Without walls it whould be much easier to enter, kill someone and go out again.

You say the walls protect no one when an opposing force really wishes to enter?

Sorry but this is just ridiculous, your argumentation is pretty strange.
Do you want to tell me that an invasion is as easy if you can attack wherever you want as when you have only two narrow spots where only one soldier can enter at the time?
Please rethink a little bit what you are telling us.

Futhermore the one who is trying to spread the rumor that he killen dozens of guards at the city walls is just making himself look silly...unfortunatly we dont even have as many guards as he supposedly killed.

Regards
Guillermo Ballesta

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:11 pm

Lennier wrote:If you do not agree with the doing of Lyrenzia, try to become elected by the registered citizens and try to implement your opinion within Lyrenzia.

Otherwise, the advice of Lyrenzia considers each opinion, which makes any sense and which is written to Lyrenzia.

On honourable representive, you mean that "If your not in lyrenzia, or not on our council, we couldent give two shites about what you think, so bloody well sod off!"

For once your people try to make a democratic vote of their own, and you bring them down. Such a great, listening, society you are.

Bastards.

~Istan Rockwall~

Adano Eles · Post by **Adano Eles** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:21 pm

If you want your opinion to be heard by Lyrenzia, why do you not tell it to the public councillor? That is what he is there for. Unfortunately it seems that people rather complain about having no possibilities to be heard instead of looking which possibilities they have.

Adano Eles

Noble Knight and Instructor of Squires of the Grey Rose
Student of the Khana Len; Apprentice of the Great Temple of the Five and Eleven

Klith · Post by **Klith** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:56 pm

As the walls appear to be a sign of cowardice, I have decided to recruit a team of elite five year olds who shall receive no cowardly training, weapons or armour! These children shall bravely lead our next attack against any leagues of monsters that may arise is the coming future!

Signed...
~Cain's Logic~

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:02 pm

You ignored what I said about when Darlok's rots came, and then when the rots formed a tunnel underground and they came near the tavern. And then when ogres invaded from the west. Walls were useless, infact they were the reason people died.

Grant Herion

Illarion.org

Petetion

Should we have the walls

Petetion