Minute-Men Army

Kale · Post by **Kale** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:47 am

I Kale Alexander Orton is now declaring to open the Minute-Men Army. This will be a group of people who will be ready to defend the town in a minutes notice in case of an Orc attack, Demons or any other attack on the town of Trolls Bane. I seek much help to make this work fore this is not a one man job.

I am also working on plans to build watch posts at the towns gates to make sure the people that walk in and out are not thiefs. I hope to seek alliance with Lyrenzia to get permission to build the watch posts by the gates.

The people who join will be given a schudel to fit there time, and if the can not make it one day I shall take there post and they will resume there possition when they are able.

==============Watchers================

Kale Orton

Thanks to you all,

Kale

Lyrenzia Foundation · Post by **Lyrenzia Foundation** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 1:56 pm

Stop this nonsens of self proclaimed armys!
The town protector is the Grey Rose.
The town guard keeps the streets secure.
The attack of the "horde" has been shown, that the town can defend themself without another so called army.
We haven't and won't give you the right to build an army within Troll's Bane.

Zarthaz · Post by **Zarthaz** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:08 pm

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen of the Lyrenzia Fundation,
Don't feel annoyed of this question, but i ask myself........
Shouldn't the People theirselves decide, if they want to join such an "Army"?
I mean, if this Army isn't needed, nobody will join.
I hope, you don't take this as an attack on your authority or something like this, it just really interests me.....

With all respect:

-Azato Menta

Mishrack · Post by **Mishrack** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:29 pm

I wonder, this army of yours... will it be as villanous as you? We can't have petty murderers running around creating pathetic armies left and right, ye know.

Algoran · Post by **Algoran** » Tue Jan 06, 2004 7:27 pm

Yes Kale, you should know better than to make an army for yourself and grab land that is not yours. Only the lyrenzia foundation are allowed to do that.

Algoran.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:30 am

This is a very interesting situation, most of the time I am involved when Lyrenzia starts to moan about some evil.
For Kale, do your time in jail, and then live as a town's person for a while, perhaps a year. Then try this.

For Lyrenzia Foundation, who gave you the right to say who can be Trolls Bane's Protectors and who can't? Who said you can dictate who can build guilds and who can't. You have no right. And if you dare try to stop guilds from being made on this island, there will be many who will disband yours.

Grant Herion

Kale · Post by **Kale** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:39 am

I see the Grey Rose feels threatend that I may be more protective of my town I mean come on I want to get in jail and the people don't come to arest me do you want the "Grey Rose" to let people like I was before running around and they won't do nothing about it but say iam guilty than make 0 effort to come and arrest even when I want to? If I was the protector of this town I would be up todate on who is in the jail and who is not. I would also lisin to the towns people and do whats best for the town instead of throwing up stone walls out of no where that don't even help when attacks come. Also this gives people that cannot join the Grey Rose a chance to defend there city along side friends. I am not saying the Grey Rose has to split and leave, I am saying maybe we can take shifts and I know you cannot be there all the time as fore I cannot either so we could work together and do whats best to keep our people safe from attacks that could lead to the end of our town.

and as to Prince Grant Herion I thank you for seeing maybe a good side to this instead of vetoing it right away just because it may cause a "threat" to a guild thats already protecting the town

Lyrenzia I see you are just some power hungry bastards trying to say what I can and can not do.

Kale Alexand Orton

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:38 pm

((to Kale:
To be honest, it isn't a problem of catching you ingame, it is a problem of time zones. As long as Dyluck isn't available, there is no man with key in the american time zones. And for a game, I won't stay up in the middle of the night to catch a criminal. So it isn't an ingame problem but an ooc-problem, that you weren't catched right now.))

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:59 pm

Dear Grant,

Grant Herion wrote:For Lyrenzia Foundation, who gave you the right to say who can be Trolls Bane's Protectors and who can't? (...) You have no right.

Haven't you got it? Albernon has told you several times and me too. Lyrenzia has the same rights as every single person. The only difference is, that Lyrenzia are more than a single person.
Lyrenzia has declared in a former announcment, that Grey Rose is the protector of the town. This was decided by Lyrenzia.

Grant Herion wrote:Who said you can dictate who can build guilds and who can't. . And if you dare try to stop guilds from being made on this island, there will be many who will disband yours.

There is a little difference between guild and army. Lyrenzia never talked about guilds, it talked about an army build by a searched criminal.

Aragon ben Galwan
Earl and Templar of the Grey Rose
Priest of Malachin
Councilor of Lyrenzia

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 4:07 pm

You are but a step away from doing that Aragon. And I wonder if all of the Lyrenzia Foundation actual agrees to forcing Kale Orton's guild to disband. I want to see Councilors saying they agree they can force Kale Orton to not make a guild.

Grant Herion

((I heard Dyluck was ingame a few weeks ago... Too bad, he was a cool roleplayer...))

Algoran · Post by **Algoran** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:55 pm

"Lyrenzia has the same rights as every single person." That means every single person has the right to do what lyrenzia has done.

"Lyrenzia has declared in a former announcment, that Grey Rose is the protector of the town. " So every single person has the right to say who can protect the town. lyrenzia has built a castle, an army and a force to police Trolls Bane, so every single person has the right to do the same.

lyrenzia has set punishments for whatever it sees as a crime. Every single person then has the same rights to do the same.

Thankyou for clearing this up Aragon.

Algoran.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:45 pm

By reading the last few comments, it seems that Aragon is suggesting Lyrenzia is a group of people, and has the same rights as everyone else. So why shouldnt we believe that Lyrenzia is actually a faction of people trying to forcibly control the town of Trollsbane with the Grey Rose and useless guards?

Albernon · Post by **Albernon** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 2:27 am

Algoran wrote:"Lyrenzia has the same rights as every single person." That means every single person has the right to do what lyrenzia has done.

"Lyrenzia has declared in a former announcment, that Grey Rose is the protector of the town. " So every single person has the right to say who can protect the town. lyrenzia has built a castle, an army and a force to police Trolls Bane, so every single person has the right to do the same.

lyrenzia has set punishments for whatever it sees as a crime. Every single person then has the same rights to do the same.

Thankyou for clearing this up Aragon.

Algoran.

Oh and Algoran, just keep in mind that this also means Lyrenzia has the right to stop anyone from copying them, they have the right to oppose Lyrenzia, Lyrenzia has the right to stop them, etc.

You would be correct Algoran, that we all have the same rights, if you were saying that in terms of people who want anarchy, which is how we justify Lyrenzia to anarchists. To Lyrenzians of course, by defintion the right to do what Lyrenzia does is in the hands of the representitives they have chosen since the Foundation began.

So you see, "Lyrenzia has the same rights as everyone else" is how Lyrenzia can justify itself to the eyes of anarchists. It doesn't work when you want to justify something to eyes of Lyrenzians.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 2:30 am

Albernon, you made no sense, there shouldn't be Lyrenzians and anarchrists because Lyrenzia isn't a government or a land.
Lyrenzia has no right to stop anyone from protecting the town. The Grey Rose just doesn't want competition from an active and growing guild so they tell Aragon to write that because without the Grey Rose Lyrenzia is even less fo what it is now.

Grant Herion

Albernon · Post by **Albernon** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 2:34 am

Kale Orton, if you really did change your ways and want what's best for the town, you would have been more polite and not use insults against the authorities and their guilds, calling them hungry bastards. This just shows that you are still a no good outlaw like the rest of them, and that we cannot trust you.

And don't expect us to take you seriously until you learn to make proper use of the grammar tool known as a period.

Albernon · Post by **Albernon** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 2:43 am

Lyrenizans are simply people who by definition who have accepted the fact that the representivies of Lyrenzia are the ones who set laws to create, distribute, protect rights to keep the order.

For you anarchists, "rights" don't exists and don't need to exists, because you believe everyone has the right to do anything, by definition of anarchy.

For Lyrenzians, the "rights" are for the foundation to distribute, becasue they chose their representitives to do it.

If you can't comprehend this then please don't waste our time about "rights" if you don't understand where "rights" come from.

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 2:47 am

You misunderstood Algoran, Albernon, Algoran was saying that if Lyrenzia has the same rights as everyone else, then everyone else can make their own little Lyrenzia and have their own rulings and town guards.
And the only Lyrenzians are the people who are high up in Lyrenzia. Everyone else either hates them, or doesn't care about it.

Grant Herion

Albernon · Post by **Albernon** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:00 am

See, you still don't understand what "rights" are. "Rights" don't automatically exist out of thin air, Grant Herion. Rights can only exists when they are defined, which then of course means someone has to define them. Enter Lyrenzia.

"Lyrenzia has the same rights as everyone else" is only true if you are an anarchist. In which case Lyrenzia can build an army, you can build an army, Lyrenzia can stop you, you can stop them, etc. It never ends. Nothing is absolute, so discussion about rights is useless.

For someone who believes in Lyrenzia, obviously they believe the rights is in the hands of the representitives of Lyrenzia.

By the way anarchists are the people who are high up on anarchy. Everyone else either hates them or doesn't care about it.

Geez, can't you see the parallel yet? Can't you see why justifying something to an anarchist is different from justifying something to a "Lyrenzian"?

Lyrenzia has no right to stop anyone from protecting the town.

So Grant Herion, who decided that Lyrenzia has no right to do something? You decided this? So now you are the supreme ruler who decides whether or not I can do something? I don't recall who decided who has what rights. What will happen tomorrow? You will say that I have no right to stop a robber from stabbing an old woman? You will say I have no right to eat bread?

See? Nobody can define these rights in an anarchy.

Don't you get it yet Grant Herion? As long as you live in anarchy, rights and liberty will never exist because everyone is fully free to violate each other's way of life.
Don't you understand by now why Lyrenzia must exists?

Urii Vandos · Post by **Urii Vandos** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:29 am

On top of this, a large number of citizens of Trollsbane have registered with Lyrenzia as citizens under their council's rule.

There is no question that these people, who number over 100, have accepted the rule of Lyrenzia and therefore accepted their laws.

There are more who are registered citizens under Lyrenzia, than there are Lyrenzia-haters.

You, too, are registered, Grant.

~~Urii

Cloaked Man · Post by **Cloaked Man** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:08 am

Lyrenzia is just a big head ache! Grant/fooser (and many others) say something and it turns into a riot! but honestly why can lyrenzia build a wall? Did they actually Talk this over with the guilds? From what I can tell nearly everyone, especially farmers hate this ugly monstrosoty. What is the point of it anyway, what if an attack came from the west eh? what then? How about since I have the same rights I build a wall right through town. Its my right as a person on this isle is it not.

Why have towns? Aperently Lyrenzia has jurestion over the land. And if thats so does Lyrenzia's law must be obeyed in Northrot?

Also Urii People do not chose to become a citizen, you wait in four months you too will become a citizen wether you agree or not. If you sign a message and are not a citizen of somewhere else (Northrot) then you too are a citizen. do not assume you know everything. fool

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 5:43 am

I have been here far longer than either of you, and I am NOT a registered citizen.

~Allerus

Hagen von Rabenfeld · Post by **Hagen von Rabenfeld** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:08 am

Dear unknown writer,

allow me to correct your halftruths.

-Lyrenzia built a wall to make it easier to defend the town. That should be worth some farmers walking some meters more to their fields. This has been talked through and through already, if you are interested in a honest discussion take a look into the old scrolls, your questions were already answered a long time ago. Why can Lyrenzia build a wall? Because it has the legitimation of dozens of people. That is if you accept that order. If you do not accept this order then Lyrenzia can build a wall as everyone else, as without order there is anarchy, where everyone, including a organisation like Lyrenzia, can do as it pleases them. Why can´t you build a wall? If you accept the order then you cant build a wall because you would need permission. If you do not accept the order you may try to and Lyrenzia may stop you, as everyone can do what pleases him without order.

-Lyrenzia was formed by independent groups. The groups agreed to hold up the same laws. So the law applies in the town of trollsbane and the private territories of the groups which are part of Lyrenzia. Lyrenzia leaves the concret decisions about a certain case, happening in those private territories, to the groups and manages the trial. The kingdom of Northerot is not part of the foundation and so the law doesnt apply there.

-You obviously got that wrong. When you meet the criteria of having lived here for four months you may apply for citizenship. This is no automatism. Take a second look at the parchments in question or think about Allerus´comment.

~Hagen von Rabenfeld~

Albernon · Post by **Albernon** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:34 am

Hagen hit it right on the mark. If you accept Lyrenzia, then obviously Lyrenzia can do what it does. If you don't accept Lyrenzia, then it's an anarchy and everyone can do anything including Lyrenzia. So either way Lyrenzia "can" do what it does.

However I don't agree to one point of yours regarding territory. The entire island belongs to all people and as such the law applies everywhere except with agreement of privately owned territory such as Greenbrair or Silberbrand where private laws may exist. Notherot was not legitimately paid for by its occupants and not recognized in the contracts as private territory, so it is free territory for the public. If a crime was comitted in Notherot, then the court would see the case, but just that it would not send guards outside Troll's Bane to find the criminal since it would take them away from our town. If they come to Troll's Bane however, they would be wanted still. However, I think the court does not hear cases where the victim has chosen to be a citizen of Notherot, which cancels their rights as Troll's Bane citizens to ask for justice from the court.

Cloaked Man · Post by **Cloaked Man** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 2:56 pm

So what your saying is that I CAN build a wall like that, I CAN create a trial, I CAN throw folk in jail? Think about what your saying "If you dont then its anacrhy and anyone can do what they want therefore lyrenzia can do that" Well does that mean I can?

And when did lyrenzia actually become the law of the land? When did this all take place aperrently I missed it becuase suddenly Lyrenzia dictates all and no one can stop them. Seems a little odd.

Mishrack · Post by **Mishrack** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:02 pm

And when did lyrenzia actually become the law of the land? When did this all take place aperrently I missed it becuase suddenly Lyrenzia dictates all and no one can stop them. Seems a little odd.

Quite simply, when the people of trollsbane decided they had had enough of the likes of Fooser.

Aragon · Post by **Aragon** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:57 pm

Dear unknown writer,

seemed, that you have to hide something behind your assumptions, that you aren't able to sign your posts like every other man.
Have a look at the chronicles of Troll's Bane and you will find your answers.

Aragon ben Galwan
Earl and Templar of the Grey Rose
Priest of Malachin
Councilor of Lyrenzia

Raffa Redwillow · Post by **Raffa Redwillow** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:04 pm

The man is a criminal, most likely he does not want folk like yourself aresting him. Not that you are bad folk.

Raffa Redwillow
Of the vally of Spielburg

Aaron Groveburry · Post by **Aaron Groveburry** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:41 pm

This was started by a man who seems to be trying to redeem himself. Four other posts were about him and then the rest about Lyrenzia...that is odd.

Albernon · Post by **Albernon** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:16 am

Cloaked Man wrote:So what your saying is that I CAN build a wall like that, I CAN create a trial, I CAN throw folk in jail? Think about what your saying "If you dont then its anacrhy and anyone can do what they want therefore lyrenzia can do that" Well does that mean I can?

How about YOU think about what you're asking and start reading so you don't waste time asking questions that have already been answered?
READ this:

Hagen von Rabenfeld wrote: If you do not accept the order you may try to and Lyrenzia may stop you, as everyone can do what pleases him without order.

Got it? The answer is YES, if you believe in anarchy, yes you can build your wall, jail whoever, trial whatever you want. But of course in anarchy, we can also STOP you from doing any of those things, because everyone can do ANYTHING.

It doesn't get much simpler than this:

Accepting Lyrenzia means:
-Lyrenzia can
-You can't

Not accepting Lyrenzia means:
-Anarchy where everyone can do anything
-Lyrenzia can
-You can
-Anyone can destroy or stop whomever
-Circular argument where "rights" don't exist

Grant Herion · Post by **Grant Herion** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:21 am

Trolls Bane wasn't an anarchy before Lyrenzia. Infact I believe everyone lived exactly the same way they do now when the town was first founded. Albernon, before Lyrenzia it was the same as now. Do not give the thought to iggnorants that we are in the dark and Lyrenzia is the light.

Grant Herion