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Albernon
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Post by Albernon »

Ferrari Swifteye wrote:"but since you have no power, nobody has to take yours to be official"

What give Lyrenzia that power.

Oh no I should watch what I say for every word I write Albernon writes a page.
I'm sorry, I know how hard it is to read a whole page for less intelligent and illiterate people.
First of all, learn to use a question mark when you ask a question, or go ask a little boy how to use it.
Secondly, learn to read while you're at it. Your question was already answered:
Albernon wrote:Therefore, it is impossible to create a government without breaking the cycle by taking the power to define who the people are, as Lyrenzia did with it's Registered Citizens, who are free to nominate and vote for councilors to be seated in the foundation.
Lyrenzia TOOK that power for itself. That's the whole point. Since nobody has any "power" in anarchy, the only possible way to create a government from anarchy is to take that power.

What's that you say? You can take that power for yourself too? Go ahead, if you think people will listen to you, and you have what it takes to back yourself up. We have over 150 citizens and guards to uphold our rules and "powers". Good luck trying to uphold your "power".

Oh and if you're thinking of telling me that our people are useless at enforcing our rules, then apparently we're not a threat to you and there's no problem. But then of course that raises the question of why you're wasting your breath complaining to get rid of something that's not too strong to cause you problems.

You'll never win the argument so why don't you just go hiding back into the shadows. Nobody forces you to read pages and pages of text that you constantly fail to comprehend and argue against.
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Darkform
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Post by Darkform »

Pronon Palmsuger wrote:((Pronon being a hobbit who doesnt like thiefs likes Lyrenzia. But you have to admit it was fun back in the days to be farming by the tavern and get robbed, If it was roleplayed well I didnt mind losing the cabbage. No one does that any more for fear of going to jail :cry: :roll:
within the last week I have had cabbage stolen twice 1 of the times it was 1/2 the crop .

oh but the farmland outside any town is not protected by laws so I just will not trade to anyone that takes my crops . unless they pay back 2x the crops value and 1 ingot for my forgivness .

of corse this dosen't count for the farmland in greenbrire because it's laws , or the crop in Northerot because the farmland is so tiny .

from the desk of Jhon Sivan
delivered to the wall by Darkform
Kale
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Post by Kale »

((would a GM delete this thread the minute-men army is no more fore I am with the movement...and everyone is off topic))
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Grant Herion
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Post by Grant Herion »

Then Albernon you are saying that Lyrenzia is a government, something they repeated very often that they weren't.
You are also saying that Lyrenzia is the ruler of Trolls Bane wether we accept it or not and the only way to get rid of it is through force.
If this is what Lyrenzia truely is, then perhaps force should be used to get rid of it.

((no name))
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¿Unknown?
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Post by ¿Unknown? »

((Its pointless to argue about Lyrenzia they have got the GM's on there side. Lyrenzia will never be eliminated. We can start fire on the walls, attack the down argue all we want but it's pointless))
unknown person
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Post by unknown person »

((And who has got the GMS NOT on their side?))
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Cain Freemont
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Post by Cain Freemont »

((What he means is Lyrenzia was started by the GMs pretty much themselves. It was specifically supported by GMs and therefore will never leave power, which is why its so stupid to even try to roleplay someone that's against it. Its favored in an OOC manner. I personally hate how Lyrenzia is being run, both personally and in an IC manner. This is not crossing ooc and IC of course, its just that I prefer to roleplay someone who is against it, as it is obviously just a political group who twists its words. I'm not saying its bad roleplay. It is good roleplay, but people are afraid to do anything about it because they know its widely favored by the GMs, as it was created by GMs and 3 year players.))
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Galim
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Post by Galim »

((of course. setting fire on a stonewall will destroy the whole organisation lyrenzia, huh? sorry, but until now noone have roleplayed a good attempt of getting rid of lyrenzia. do ya really think that the organisation will be destroyed just because ya cause TROUBLES in the town? comeon, that is a foolish way. see movement, their members are wellknown criminals, noone likes them. do ya think the citizens will say "hello, i like ya. thank ya that ya free me" when they come into town to destroy lyrenzia? try something better than "just" fighting each day the townguards and cause trouble for the citizens. use ya fantasy. noone of the lyrenzia enemys have ever tried to get rid of them in a peaceful way. they just take a sword and fight. and that should be the solution? do ya think the gms of a game, which is a game were "fights" shouldn't be the important part of the game, will accept and support any trys of the players getting rid of lyrenzia by fights and force?. just think about that.))
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Cain Freemont
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Post by Cain Freemont »

((Frankly, I've stopped caring. I wanted to actually make a difference in the game. I tried to play a peaceful opposition, but whenever someone outside of Lyrenzia opposes them, no matter how, they get kicked out of town. Its dumb. Lyrenzia has turned into a tyranny, which may or may not have been the purpose. I don't think any actual player knows the answer to that. My peaceful opposition has done nothing. Whenever I act with words, Albernon or some other high-up official half-way changes the topic of discussion and doesn't even address half of what I say. This isn't a game about freakin' modern day lawyers.

For God's sake, what do you expect when you make a game where there are 6 different races to choose from, each with their own personalities and such. There's going to be fighting. It is simply being blind to the situation to not see that. If you want a game about politics, take out all the skills. ALL of them. Expect people to play then. Yeah, a graphical chat. Woo. That's 90% of what this game is nowadays anyway. Great job on making the first ever Politician Sim game. Maybe it should be titled "Sim Politics" and thrown on the shelf of some computer store.

Saying that the problem is everyone else and not yourself, when everyone is trying their own things, yet things are going no where, you should look at what you're doing, not what others are doing. When everyone around you is upset, its likely that you are behind the cause. Just think about that.))
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Grant Herion
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Post by Grant Herion »

((The only problem i have with lyrenzia err the town guard ooc at the moment, is i heard that Hagen gm jails people who attack him. I think after they attack, or if they are wanted and alone I understand a gm jail for that. But not a gm jail while they are fighting him, it would seem like he just doesnt want to lose any more skill))
Hagen von Rabenfeld
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Post by Hagen von Rabenfeld »

((I will only say one thing about this. This will be my only comment so better think about it.

Considering the jailing:
I give as much RP as i get in return.



PS:
is i heard that Hagen gm jails people who attack him.
Wrong again Grant. Perhaps you should ask those, who you "heard" it from, for a more detailed descripton. If you doubt my words i can send you my log.))
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John Irenicus
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Post by John Irenicus »

((The people which were taken to prison shouldn't even be able to move any more. One of them jumped from the roof of the library some hour before this. Where do you think are his legs now?
And can you tell me another method to win against people who always come back after they were killed many, many times?
To the other point, Hagen is not scared of losing his skills, he always fights even more and better fighters of you when he knows that he will be killed. I Never saw him run away.
And again maybe...Lyrenzia is not Hagen and Hagen is not Lyrenzia.))
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Nilo
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Post by Nilo »

hagen wrote:((I will only say one thing about this. This will be my only comment so better think about it.

Considering the jailing:
I give as much RP as i get in return.



PS:Quote:
is i heard that Hagen gm jails people who attack him.

Wrong again Grant. Perhaps you should ask those, who you "heard" it from, for a more detailed descripton. If you doubt my words i can send you my log.))
um, You jailed me for 1 minute, so, yes. You can jail people. I did attack you, andyou did jail me....
Kale
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Post by Kale »

((John Hold the phone buddy! I did not jump from the roof I jumped down the latter for I was kiddy corner from it and I ran down the stairs and got away so don't walk in here thinking that i would but myself in danger and jump off the roof when I was carrying a lot of armour and wepons. So please don't accuse of doing that...Hagen you do jail people you "dislike" because come on I see people of cause trouble in town and than you just talk by them high five boo bam nothing wrong...But Kale walks threw minding his own...WHAM you dive out of no where and jail me... Than when I get out of jail and have no time to get out of town you jail me again and it is a repeated process.))

Kale
Kale
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Post by Kale »

((Nilo I know he gots the power because he was trying to force role-play on me some "archers" than some "net" off the top of the roof. You see if Kale Seens these "Archers" He himself would take out his bow and snipe them down. So in return Kale Should have not been Jailed. I think this "jail" is a way Hagen can defend himself against the Movement members when sun long or any of them are not around he can just send them to jail.))
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Grant Herion
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Post by Grant Herion »

((I think another problem is the non-playable guards... at both northerot and lyrenzia. I mean, keikan was roleplaying with us last night saying we should leave Northerot because there were 100s of guards Darlok had. But I would need to say:
1. How could he afford them? Guards would want money, or maybe Darlok is ruling them with fear and said he would kill the guard's families if they don't work for him... So this question doesn't matter.
2. Since when do they have guards? I mean, as soon as they take power they have guards by the 100s? I mean, lyrenzia I see, because they have their own players who are the town guards, so having more roleplayed guards I see. But Northerot, it is just Darlok, Zerbus and some other elf character. There really isn't much else, tho, I would love to have more fighting then just these extremely strong warriors.
3. How strong are these guards? They can't be much stronger then average town guard for Lyrenzia, I mean, Grant beat most of the town guards alone, and that was several days ago. So now I am saying, if Grant could beat 3 town guard's alone, and he is held up in the shop, (this is just a made up scenario..), with 5 of his Movement members, and their all much stronger then the average town guard, wouldn't they have a chance of throwing back the guard's assault?

That is it, I really don't mind Lyrenzia as a whole ooc, just it's prison time and these questions. Since Hagen doesn't jail people while their fighting him, it is all good.))
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John Irenicus
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Post by John Irenicus »

((well I think it is not my fault that I though you jumped down the roof. If John stands one meter away from you, looks at you and you climb down the ladder without using any #me how could I know what you are doing?
To Grant and point 3: How strong can the Movement people be? I don't know how many times they were forced to leave, how many times they were "killed" and they come back every day. It's unplayable too.))
Last edited by John Irenicus on Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
unknown person
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Post by unknown person »

((
Grant Herion wrote:1. How could he afford them?
2. Since when do they have guards?
But Northerot, it is just Darlok, Zerbus and some other elf character.
3. How strong are these guards? They can't be much stronger then average town guard for Lyrenzia, I mean, Grant beat most of the town guards alone, and that was several days ago.
1. Darlok should have enough money from his tresspassing fine etc. etc. such a monarch always has enough money.

2. So, does that mean if you can't see the guards IG they aren't there?
If you play it like this, why do you and your movement slaughter dozen of Troll's Banes's town guards at the board, when there actually are about 7 or 8? Odd, isn't it?

3. How strong? What do you care? As a super-hero-warrior you should always be stronger than guards and be able to fight 10 or 20 of them at once. And isn't that what your char is suppossed to be? :shock:
So you beat most of the town guards alone :roll: : why not the Northerot guards? Just play it on the board as you did before. :twisted: ))
Hagen von Rabenfeld
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Post by Hagen von Rabenfeld »

((
2. Since when do they have guards?
Concerning the lyrenzia guards i didnt know we had them either. :wink: Not untill they got slaughtered in droves by you anti-Lyrenzia-superheroes in this "board quest". Your side invented them and so you have to come along with them. And concerning the northerot guards, it is a kingdom, there is a castle and if you would use a little of your imagination, you could guess which type of people live in a fortified castle usually.

Finally some of you guys out there have to understand that trespassing, being beaten, then quickly running to the next available monster spawn point, PGing seriously and then coming back the next day is no roleplay. Actually it is only childish OOC behaviour. And you will have to accept that you will get no IC kingdom this way.
Even if all of you are grandmaster in every skill, simply because conquering a kingdom needs skills which can only be roleplayed not "trained".

What i critize in detail is already listed here:
http://forum.illarion.org/viewtopic.php ... 9e5b2c8d6f
From the red coloured sentences to the 1. paragraph number 1.-11.

Generally think more about how realistic your ambitions to play a supehero is. And please do not make me quote the logs, it is not my intention to let you loose face in public.))
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Cain Freemont
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Post by Cain Freemont »

((Who said they were powergaming? You're just making assumptions. Though, it is nearly impossible to even gain skills without violating this game's classifications of powergaming...))
Nartak Ironmaster
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Post by Nartak Ironmaster »

Cain Freemont wrote:((Who said they were powergaming? You're just making assumptions. Though, it is nearly impossible to even gain skills without violating this game's classifications of powergaming...))
((
Then go, play Runescape or Tibia, this Game is not designed for gaining Skills, and i think it would be better to delete all skills and take them out of the game. That would prevent from guys like the Movement
))
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Cain Freemont
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Post by Cain Freemont »

((It would also allow you to put in more crap like hundreds of town guards. Skills are vital to this game and we need people like the Movement to at least have some form of InGame resistance to the high authority. The game would be stupid if everyone just did whatever Lyrenzia said. We will lose almost every player if skills are removed.

Your argument
Then go, play Runescape or Tibia, this Game is not designed for gaining Skills,
is simply a cop-out because you don't have any better excuse or explanation for why its so damn hard. The "If you don't like it, leave" speech is, by far, the weakest and cheapest form of response. Its only used when people are either too scared to voice their ideas or when someone is too lazy to think of an idea to help or remedy a situation. It never helps a situation, only causes arguments and tension.

And by the way, I DO play Tibia for my kill-fests. That's why I don't have very aggressive characters here.))
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Caranthir the great
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Post by Caranthir the great »

Cain Freemont wrote:Its only used when people are either too scared to voice their ideas or when someone is too lazy to think of an idea to help or remedy a situation.
((Or then the person disagrees with you and thinks that there simply is no "situation".))
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¿Unknown?
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Post by ¿Unknown? »

((lyrenzia, as with this game is run by that "Lets make things immpossibly hard just because we can" attuitude. I mean look at the drought. THese trees, that grow back every 5 min, suddenly stop growing? Some trees were right next to water. And where did all this sand come from? its dry so sand just pops up? and when theres no quartz sand yet sand is all over? And did the drought causes the most used depot in town to disapear? Hello, people build things for convience. Lets say I build a house, I can't store anything in my house because its not a town? (ex Elven monestary, Shi long monastary) People don't put an anvil way the hell in the middle of nowhere jsut so they can lug coal and ore to the anvil then lug it back to town. Puh-lease))
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Zarah
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Post by Zarah »

((
¿Unknown? wrote: I mean look at the drought. THese trees, that grow back every 5 min, suddenly stop growing? Some trees were right next to water.
The trees don't grow back every five minutes. Infact it's just a technical need to make them grow back every five minutes. In real life you would have to wait more than a year to get back a new tree. For it's simply unpossibly to present that long time of growing that is needed in RL these trees grow back "every 5 minutes".
The trees stopped growing because of the drought, yes. Imagine the isle in a heat where the water in the river dried out so that the land around couldn't recieve the same water amount as usual. That's why even trees next to the river died. Just because you as a player still see the same river in the game, that doesn't mean, that he still supllies the same water, that he is still the same, during the drought.
Of course we all need a little imagination here. When I started playing Illarion again I stepped directly in the times of the drought which was confusing of course, when Arkadia gave me a shovel and said "Don't work too hard, it's hot these days. Noone likes to work these days. We have a drought".
Your character in Illarion is part of an all-time-quest, you can say. You have to play with the circumstances, otherwise other players may not understand your playing and get confused.
¿Unknown? wrote: Lets say I build a house, I can't store anything in my house because its not a town? (ex Elven monestary, Shi long monastary)
Yes, there is a reason why your character can not store anything inside the monastarys: They're not your homes. They're the homes of the monks and familys that built it. So they're (in their role, not actually in the game of Illarion) supposed to store their stuff in there. It's the same with Northerot or Silverbrand. You get the key to Silberbrand, Darloks chamber or the secret room in the Grey Rose castle only if you are an inhabitant of on of these towns or authorized. Simply to bring reality into the game, not everyone can enter every house and use everything in there. Yes, infact, there is no depot in the monastarys but if the owner don't chose to have one, because they have few possession at all, it's not a reason to complain at the boards, that your character (and we don't even know who your character is) can not use depots out of the town.
¿Unknown? wrote:And where did all this sand come from? its dry so sand just pops up? and when theres no quartz sand yet sand is all over?
Well, after the drought was over, the landscape of Illarion changed. You can see that in new herbs that are growing for example. And while the drought nature changed too of course.
The drought made the once watered areas loose their quality. No water means no nutrients and therefore just the sand stays.
Maybe the quartz sand lost his quality too?
But during the drought there was still a spot to mine quartz sand from, but only few people knew.))
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Konstantin K
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Post by Konstantin K »

((Training for an hour is not powergaming, if you are using a live partner, not a monster.))
Nartak Ironmaster
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Post by Nartak Ironmaster »

Konstantin K wrote:((Training for an hour is not powergaming, if you are using a live partner, not a monster.))
((
Due to the fact, a day in Illarion lasts 3 RL hours, it is Powergaming. If you "train" 1 RL hour in Illarion, you train 8 Hours Ingame, i don't know how your char can afford that, but hey: You are all Invulnerable, so why wonder about that? :roll:

Illarion Time:
http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... 32&start=0
))
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Val De Gausse
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Post by Val De Gausse »

If this is true, no one roleplays it. Who would lean on a wall for 2 hours, or sit in a tavern for 8? I always thought it was 1 RL hr = 3 Illarion hrs.
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Konstantin K
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Post by Konstantin K »

((I also thought it's 3 to 1 hour relationship.
If 8:1 is true - then I guess I have also spent days and days talking to single persons.
One of my conversations lasted for about 6-7 rl hours, so what - my character spent 2 days talking?

In terms of dialogues it can't be realistic, because we only said enough to make a conversation a few hours. Otherwise it would be like telling a story that lasts 8 hours instead of one. Do people really talk that slow?
And singing would be nearly impossible, as well as games and public performances. Who would sit in a theatre for a day?

As for training, rests between the sessions are played and assumed. Breaks for food, water, and healing are as well considered, aren't they?
By the way, you didn't complain when we trained combat together, remember? Nobody ever mentioned time relation, when benefitting themselves... :roll: ))
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Zarah
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Post by Zarah »

((
Konstantin K wrote: Who would sit in a theatre for a day?
The old greeks did. A play in an amphitheatre lasted a whole day. :roll: ))
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