Estralis Seborian wrote:
We're working on that and for the time being, the Illarion rules hold:
Actions of a character must not be adapted to the technical environment of the engine to maximise success. Characters have to react on external influences and must not be kept idle in the game.
Could you please elaborate on this rule a bit? Does this mean that the engine does not actually correctly represent your complete surroundings? I.E. If I see an empty space in the meadow around me, with no birds, bunnies, or deer, or enemies, or anything else, I still have to assume they are there, and it is not safe to sleep? Likewise, can I roleplay that something is there, which is not engine-wise? As in, even if horizon is clear, and there is no cave near me and no trees, and i am resting at a beach, i should assume that there may be an imaginary tree a robber may come out of? At one point a GM told me that my character could not have a retractable blade, because it is not supported by the engine, so I had to adapt him to the technical environment.
So the standard here is not clear. What goes first? Engine or concept?
When it comes to resting from fatique (which is what I assume the message "you urgently need to rest before being mentally fit" to be), maximizing success is a common sense kind issue.
Again, just my opinion here, since discussion is very interesting, the way I see it, is, if my character lives his dream as a swordmaster, and strives to get better, he, the character, will do his best to maximize his success. He will eat right, sleep plenty, and eat whenever his fatique is gone. He will also be on a steady schedule, unless he is sick. Just like in reality of things, in our longsword classes, we train every friday and sunday, and keep practicing in our spare time, and students who want to succeed - you can definitely see that they practice between sessions and not just twice a week.
So keeping that in mind, let's talk about medieval fantasy roleplay, comparing it, well, even to reneissance fairs at least.
When we talk about a character who is a medieval man, there were a lot less distractions available to them (no TV, no gaming, no chat programs). Looking back to 1400s, at lives of great german swordmasters like Kushner, Paulus Kal, Johanness Lichtenauer, those guys were lords, who had their basic needs taken care of by peasants (kind of what we simulate in illarion economy too), and they spent every day of their life since adolescense - perfecting their murdering skills and writing books about it. And we talking dagger, longsword, backsword, poleaxe, spear, wrestling, pike, swords and buckler - i mean, those guys darn sure lived their lives to maximize success.
Naturally, when a player plays a swordmaster, why would they choose the track of special olympics, and sabotage themselves? Of course, the player would merge with the needs of the character and maximize success, challenge themselves more and more and continually break their limit. So in short, this powergaming OOC thing is the very same thing as IC desire of a character to get better.
I'm not sure how others play, but I can example on myself only.
When I play Haldrom, i think to myself, okay, what would Haldrom do? He feels like practicing his stance and sword form. Would he keep cutting up zombies, when teach him nothing with their shambling feet and wakward hands, or would he go take on able opponents, like demon skeletons, who will punish him if his form is not perfect? Answer for both OOC swordsman and IC swordsman are - yes, pick opponent to suit your training drills.
Likewise, there seems to be a huge uproar on the forums about characters engaing a monster and not attacking it, letting the monster train character's defense.
That seems absolute nonsense to call it bad roleplay. You would do exactly so in real life. If you know an undead demon wants to kill you, and you know well, that you are capable of killing it, but you feel like practicing your non-lethal non counter-offensive defense drills (for those who study german fighting, the naughtschlag, fighting from the passive) - you are not abusing the engine, you're acting well within what a real swordmaster would do, until you get seriously hurt and decide that that's enough drilling and time to dispatch the bugger.
And to be devil's advocate to my own words, the problem perhaps stems from the fact that it's cynical to use an undead creature who hates you as a tool for drill training? Yes, it does seem pretty cold hearted, but there are not many options, you have to pick one monster or another in the end. I have not seen any fencing schools ingame.
Perhaps, my character should open one, where people who want to learn the sword system can study in a controlled environment, be provided food, rest, and guidance? That would be fairly realistic and less cynical.
The way I take it, definition of powergaming is - difference between realistic vs. unrealistic conditions of character improvement?
The worst powergaming that I found unrealistic so far was actually in the area of alchemy. When you practice mixing herbs, there is no way to empty the bottle unless you drink the crap you made. Now that's fairly unrealistic. The amount of stuff you'd have to drink to get decent at the skill would make a character burst. Unless you keep filling it with all the herbs you find, which defies the purpose of experiment as well.