Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

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Post by Mi'ali Rua' Tae » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:57 pm

Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

~ My char who was disconnected woke to a GM attacking me without RP, not emoting, and while i was helpless to act. My Char wasn't resting IG after PG'ing or something. My char had only logged in, walked for a few minutes, then became stuck due to my unstable work computer. So standing by a bridge south of Bane my computer freezes and some asshole clouds my Char with no notice, right in front of another char. Is there a reason for that kind of bullshit or just amusing yourself?

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:36 pm

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

Are you sure you were attacked by GM?

There are monsters that look just like player characters.

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Post by Mi'ali Rua' Tae » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:15 am

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

- Anythings possible i suppose, but I am quite positive...

A char with no name, to examine closely only tells you 'human', begins attacking me, then stops attacking and walks a few steps away (which a monster would never do), then chases me into Bane, continuing to attack me in front of several other chars without a single word or emote, i was then clouded and hung around the char in ghost form watching him pass by a couple chars and even stand idle by another char without attacking until he ran out the gate, headed south down the path into the field, and then vanished into mid-air as i continued to follow only a few steps behind him...


- I have seen some strange things in my time on the island but that would take the cake as far as monsters are concerned...


- Also, i could care less about the fact my char was PK'ed. She is extremely intelligent, not well trained, and shes poor. Anything she lost can be replaced in two clicks. But what was the point of what happened?

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:08 am

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

Estralis Seborian wrote:Are you sure you were attacked by GM?
May I ask politely what makes you so sure the offender was a Gamemaster?

If something like this happens again, you can report other players by performing a right click on the avatar and chose the corresponding entry from the context menu.

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Post by Llama » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:48 am

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

I'm pretty sure that's a monster of some sort.

Human bandits look like humans.

A GM would have a character number on the top as far as I know - and would have a description when you click on him/her.

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Post by Juliana D'cheyne » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:01 am

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

A monster would quit attacking if you get behind it because they can't see, they will walk a little ways then when see you will follow and start attacking again.

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Post by Qeewee » Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:53 am

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

Depends if she was near a bandit human spawn spot or not. I've experienced GMs summoning things random at me (once a dragon). So it might be a GM since she was standing still, might be someone who dragged a bandit out of it's spot if she weren't at the spot. Though I met a GM yesterday IG and they do have numbers above their head.

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Post by Nitram » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:39 pm

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

GM Characters are by the most purposes just simple player characters and pose no difference for the client compared to a normal player character.

What you describe identifies your attacker for sure as a monster. But for the sake of ensuring I will check the server logs regarding the death of your character.

Got it:
  Code:
Fri Dec 17 22:18:53 2010: Monster of race 0(4261427425) killed Player Mi'ali Rua' Tae(395431317)
race 0 is a male human.

Nitram

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Post by Lrmy » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:49 am

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

Not that I really cared but a Gm spawned a human bandit on me the other day while I was sitting against the guard tower for maybe three minutes. Didn't kill a single monster all day before that either. I couldn't help but think.. what if they did this to some one else who didn't have good skills? I only know it was a gm because no bandits spawn in the guard tower :wink: Whoever did it should not be so hasty to summon on suspected pgers if that was the case either time. Maybe an ooc question or at least wait another few minutes to see if they dropped.

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Post by Grim_banned » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

Yes, happened to me as well a few times, but only with flies. Was sitting in Bane to wait for someone to RP with and suddenly I get flies around my char. No OOC question, no anything.

To the trigger happy GM: Please consider that the player might have dropped and his char got stuck IG (happens to me all the time), or that he simply waits for RP. How about asking an OOC question if the player is idle and kick him if he is, instead of spawning a monster with no RP? :wink:

Just my two cents.

Oh and...
So standing by a bridge south of Bane...
There is no bandit spawn south of Bane, nor is it likely that a char would of led it all the way there from the northern forest. Must have been a GM. :wink:

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Post by Nitram » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:32 pm

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

Its a good way to check if the players are idling or not ;)

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Post by Junior Giant » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:57 pm

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

So I no longer have to go hunt monsters? I just need to sit in one place and a GM will bring them to me? Works for me.

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Post by Kadiya » Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:49 pm

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

*note to myself: Next time you see a char of Junior Giant sitting arround ingame spawn some dragons arround*


:twisted:

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Post by Grim_banned » Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:58 pm

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

Kadiya wrote:*note to myself: Next time you see a char of Junior Giant sitting arround ingame spawn some dragons arround*


:twisted:

Dragons? Pfft... I thought you were evil... :( some Red Rams would fit better :twisted:

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Post by Junior Giant » Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:02 pm

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

Kadiya wrote:*note to myself: Next time you see a char of Junior Giant sitting arround ingame spawn some dragons arround*


:twisted:




Dragons? Pfft... I thought you were evil... :( some Red Rams would fit better
I wouldn't mind risking perma-death if I get to experience something new. Red Rams sound like fun. :)
Besides my older characters have become so boring to play. I only really enjoy playing newer characters where everything is new to them and a challenge.

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Post by Mi'ali Rua' Tae » Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:08 am

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

~ Well i apologize for thinking it was an active char chasing me, though it did make odd movements backing up while he was in the middle of attacking me without my char moving at all. Had I known it was just a monster i coulda climbed the damn ladder at the east gate and got my ass away from him :x Also, i'm quite sure it was GM spawned which is cool, i usually like suprises even if it is at the risk of being clouding. But once in a great while i get a chance to get on at work which runs Illarion horribly, so i usually keep my char in one place to train or work somewhere lag free. Logging in with my first Char in the single demons chamber within a few minutes im surrounded by what i would assume were GM spawned demon skeletons causing a bad lag but im lucky enough to finally be able to start targeting them for attack and finally get them all. So then i figure thats a bad idea and log out that char. Then I log in my second char, in a different training area and i start to fight off a skeleton and i get a message "go and RP" or something like that. So I am lagged and can't move my char anyways or speak because a more than normal amount of creatures are surrounding my char again so i just log out and in with my third char who is alone and away from things to cause lag but she still froze up when i got to the bridge so i figured id log her out but i was spawned on again...
So, I think from now on its just best I not play from work or at least until someone isn't trying to kill me :roll:

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Post by Sonara Stone » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:25 pm

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

Yes, I learned not to idle the hard way. When I was still a newbie, I left the illa client on to go get a samwich, forgot about it (my char was alone in the desert) and came back a half hour later to see I had been clouded.

Don't idle. If you freeze, relog, or at least "#o I'm frozen don't PK meeeeee!"

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Post by Cain Freemont » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:18 am

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

I'm honestly not quite sure I understand the negative sentiment toward idling while in-game. Populating the online list really only aids in potentially encouraging more of our players to log in. It certainly shouldn't be used as an excuse to troll the player-base.

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Post by Llama » Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:38 pm

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

Cain Freemont wrote:I'm honestly not quite sure I understand the negative sentiment toward idling while in-game. Populating the online list really only aids in potentially encouraging more of our players to log in. It certainly shouldn't be used as an excuse to troll the player-base.
#w Because when you idle, your 'learnign cap' resets much faster - so if you want to PG a lot, you stay IG as much as possible.

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Post by Nalzaxx » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:16 pm

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

Does PKing the odd noob really stop this though? Or just further alienate and discourage our newer players?

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Post by H.Banestone » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:10 pm

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

I don't see any reason to stop people from powergaming with the current system. Devices for slowing it down are already in place:
1. skill cap itself, which ensures nobody levels up too fast.
2. hunger bar - players have to take breaks for food
3. repairs and weapon replacements
4. encumberance with loot
5. hours of rp that happen anyway in between when you visit town, because you usually get dragged into rp in populated places.

My guess is only mages can really PG, because they can use their mana bar to restore their hunger bar, and vice versa, becoming fully self sufficient.

So why bother people who idle for ooc reasons? Though, it is fairly realistic that an idle person would be sleeping, so in the wilderness it makes sense that a sleeping person be robbed or attacked. But in the city full of guards, idling should be safe and allowed. Good RP doesnt always mean chatting it up. Sometimes chars need to sleep too.

How long do the developers want people to play the game before they are okay to become masters? I've been at it for a year on and off. You know, some kid with a weak heart, playing from a hospital may have a heart attack, or may be sick with AIDS and die without ever getting a character mastered in a craft. Won't that make you feel bad for having such slow levelling? :mrgreen:

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:11 am

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

We're working on that and for the time being, the Illarion rules hold:
Actions of a character must not be adapted to the technical environment of the engine to maximise success. Characters have to react on external influences and must not be kept idle in the game.
And:
How long do the developers want people to play the game before they are okay to become masters?
Exactly this question was the topic of an internal discussion and we answered it; stay tuned to see the result.

The original question/problem was resolved I guess.

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Post by H.Banestone » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:03 pm

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

Estralis Seborian wrote:We're working on that and for the time being, the Illarion rules hold:
Actions of a character must not be adapted to the technical environment of the engine to maximise success. Characters have to react on external influences and must not be kept idle in the game.
Could you please elaborate on this rule a bit? Does this mean that the engine does not actually correctly represent your complete surroundings? I.E. If I see an empty space in the meadow around me, with no birds, bunnies, or deer, or enemies, or anything else, I still have to assume they are there, and it is not safe to sleep? Likewise, can I roleplay that something is there, which is not engine-wise? As in, even if horizon is clear, and there is no cave near me and no trees, and i am resting at a beach, i should assume that there may be an imaginary tree a robber may come out of? At one point a GM told me that my character could not have a retractable blade, because it is not supported by the engine, so I had to adapt him to the technical environment.
So the standard here is not clear. What goes first? Engine or concept?

When it comes to resting from fatique (which is what I assume the message "you urgently need to rest before being mentally fit" to be), maximizing success is a common sense kind issue.
Again, just my opinion here, since discussion is very interesting, the way I see it, is, if my character lives his dream as a swordmaster, and strives to get better, he, the character, will do his best to maximize his success. He will eat right, sleep plenty, and eat whenever his fatique is gone. He will also be on a steady schedule, unless he is sick. Just like in reality of things, in our longsword classes, we train every friday and sunday, and keep practicing in our spare time, and students who want to succeed - you can definitely see that they practice between sessions and not just twice a week.

So keeping that in mind, let's talk about medieval fantasy roleplay, comparing it, well, even to reneissance fairs at least.
When we talk about a character who is a medieval man, there were a lot less distractions available to them (no TV, no gaming, no chat programs). Looking back to 1400s, at lives of great german swordmasters like Kushner, Paulus Kal, Johanness Lichtenauer, those guys were lords, who had their basic needs taken care of by peasants (kind of what we simulate in illarion economy too), and they spent every day of their life since adolescense - perfecting their murdering skills and writing books about it. And we talking dagger, longsword, backsword, poleaxe, spear, wrestling, pike, swords and buckler - i mean, those guys darn sure lived their lives to maximize success.

Naturally, when a player plays a swordmaster, why would they choose the track of special olympics, and sabotage themselves? Of course, the player would merge with the needs of the character and maximize success, challenge themselves more and more and continually break their limit. So in short, this powergaming OOC thing is the very same thing as IC desire of a character to get better.

I'm not sure how others play, but I can example on myself only.
When I play Haldrom, i think to myself, okay, what would Haldrom do? He feels like practicing his stance and sword form. Would he keep cutting up zombies, when teach him nothing with their shambling feet and wakward hands, or would he go take on able opponents, like demon skeletons, who will punish him if his form is not perfect? Answer for both OOC swordsman and IC swordsman are - yes, pick opponent to suit your training drills.

Likewise, there seems to be a huge uproar on the forums about characters engaing a monster and not attacking it, letting the monster train character's defense.
That seems absolute nonsense to call it bad roleplay. You would do exactly so in real life. If you know an undead demon wants to kill you, and you know well, that you are capable of killing it, but you feel like practicing your non-lethal non counter-offensive defense drills (for those who study german fighting, the naughtschlag, fighting from the passive) - you are not abusing the engine, you're acting well within what a real swordmaster would do, until you get seriously hurt and decide that that's enough drilling and time to dispatch the bugger.

And to be devil's advocate to my own words, the problem perhaps stems from the fact that it's cynical to use an undead creature who hates you as a tool for drill training? Yes, it does seem pretty cold hearted, but there are not many options, you have to pick one monster or another in the end. I have not seen any fencing schools ingame.
Perhaps, my character should open one, where people who want to learn the sword system can study in a controlled environment, be provided food, rest, and guidance? That would be fairly realistic and less cynical.

The way I take it, definition of powergaming is - difference between realistic vs. unrealistic conditions of character improvement?

The worst powergaming that I found unrealistic so far was actually in the area of alchemy. When you practice mixing herbs, there is no way to empty the bottle unless you drink the crap you made. Now that's fairly unrealistic. The amount of stuff you'd have to drink to get decent at the skill would make a character burst. Unless you keep filling it with all the herbs you find, which defies the purpose of experiment as well.

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Post by Athian » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:27 pm

Re: Being Pk'ed by a GM with no RP ??

Okkay...the tell tale sign that this topic has outlived its usefulness. The question was answered by Nitram quite a ways up and is now drifting far off topic. Time to sink the ship.

*padlock*

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