Fists vs. Sword

Ezor Edwickton · Post by **Ezor Edwickton** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:29 am

Anybody else wonder why hitting bare hand hurts so much more than with a many weapons. Why is this? It dosen't make sense if you ask me. If i were to his someone with even something such as a shovel, or mining hammer, it would hurt them much much more than with my bare hands. Even many of the simplest items hurt more in rl than fists. And another thing you hurt yourself if you hit bare hands. So why does it do more damage? Is there some logic behind this?

Setherioth · Post by **Setherioth** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:21 am

Yes, i've wondered that myself. Although in the game hitting somebody with your fist doesn't even hurt that much, it's just that you can hit so quickly it takes a lot of life quickly. the speed and damage should be lowered i think.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:04 am

Lets analyze this: Why can you punch so fast? fists don't weigh anything basically, therefore you can punch quite quickly. Why do they hurt? Really, they don't hurt that much, but pummeling someone non-stop is going to hurt them pretty darn bad after a bit.

Caranthir the great · Sun Nov 30, 2003 11:30 am

IMO, it's impossible to keep hitting someone efficently for any longer duration of time. Of course, there would be no damage at all if your opponent was wearing a set of Armor.

Brendan Mason · Post by **Brendan Mason** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:32 pm

I've always thought that fighting with fists was a bit like, jumping on top of the person and pummeling them until they resemble Michael Jackson.

If they're going to keep barefisted fighting in the game, perhaps next client they could implement knuckle dusters..and stuff.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:15 pm

..Or then classify knightgloves as a weapon also?

Klith · Post by **Klith** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 2:29 pm

When punching with knight gloves it does make the combat sound. Also, isn't punching related to concussion skill? I think I read somewhere a while ago that the creators were already working on a new combat system.

Iqloo · Post by **Iqloo** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 3:42 pm

I have had knight gloves sence the day i started Iqloo, and i have punched OODLES of people.. never have i heard a clank clank sound! not if i have both hands empty, if i have a shield in the other I do hear a clank clank sound..

And this game isnt to far off of logical fist fighting.. To me this game displays a person with the skills that you have at the maximum ability level they can be. For instance, i want you to go outside with a 40-50lbs axe and hit at a tree(demon) for 20mins, and run around, its not to consistant, that would require alot of equasions or tedious programming. Now lets go back out with that 40-50lbps axe and hit that tree just once, its going to be a more full and accurate swing. Same way with punching, go punch a metal garbage can full of water balloons once, youll see some should burst. That can in a slight way represent being hit with a fist with plate armor on (chain or scale armor would most likely take the blow muchos better) and then if you have metal gauntlets on, wow! it will be even worse. Now for my next point! From what I have tested around with, Chain armor is the best for taking on fists (spiders, flys, ect to my knowledge use a fist style attack, and also i had a few people hit me with their fists while i was trying on different armor)

From what i have shown to you, the fist is alright, it could use SOME work on it, but its nothing that should be really noticed. What should be noticed is the 'rock paper scissor' effect of some armors on various weapons, which is somewhat off subject so ill bring it up later!

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:40 pm

Whaa? fists are alot weaker than swords...

Setherioth · Post by **Setherioth** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 8:22 pm

Yes, fists are weaker then swords, and yes you can punch faster then you can swing a sword in many cases, and yes punching someone with no armor on would hurt them BUT the punching in the game now still seems to fast, go try it, if you're punching someone that fast then you're obviously not putting a lot of force behind the punch and you'll tire extremely quickly. As for the armor, i do think plate armor would stop a punch must better then chain amor or scale. Plate armor is attached with straps and padded on the inside side so if you get punched by a fist, a fist doesn't have a lot of momentum to it and plate armor is very heave so a fist isn't going to move the plate armor an awful lot, meaning you won't get hurt. They, on the other hand, are punching a solid sheet of steel, they're getting hurt a lot more thne you.

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:49 pm

If you're going to make fists weaker, you need to make staves stronger. Even in the hands of a skilled fighter, they don't hurt all that much. I mean, you're beating someone over the side of the head with a big piece of wood! Even if you're not knocked out, you're going to get a serious concussion.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 10:41 pm

Especially the metal-ended battlestaff, wood isn't that heavy, but iron is.

Athian · Post by **Athian** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 11:01 pm

i haven't had that problem with a staff. the metal ended staff is stronger then a firsword, kills a mummy in two blows if not less and is a bit faster then a FS as well. just ask a few of my victims. i think staff's are strong enough.

Val De Gausse · Post by **Val De Gausse** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 11:13 pm

Shouldn't this post gone under proposals?

Bombor · Post by **Bombor** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 11:16 pm

Lets analyze this further:
It was said thet to block a series of fist hits, one would need to wear a full armor. This is not true, no matter what armor one wears, the hits get through.
Easely enough explained. There are always places where you kan get through, and a sword ist long and cumbersome, therefore strikes flat and uncontrolled. Just as a hint, a short blade, knife or dagger, will do the same damage if not more, as they also can get into narrow openings and are llight to use.

Have fun with the fighting.

Maktan Hardtooth. · Post by **Maktan Hardtooth.** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:37 am

What I don't get iis how a fist fighter do better then daggers? I mean the daggers are just as fast or should be, but many time I see the fist fighter win, maybe speed shouldn't be altered, but the weak punches should be even more weaker, I saw a person take care of a skeleton and he barely scratched!

paul laffing · Post by **paul laffing** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 1:49 am

Deies wrote:Shouldn't this post gone under proposals?

How does that contribute to the topic?

I stole a battle staff from Deies once, and I went against a zombie. My firesword killed it in 2-3 hits while the battle staff was considerably more. Just to note, my concussion was higher than my slicing, or whatever the other skill is. Maybe it varies from person to person. *shrugs*

Bombor · Post by **Bombor** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:33 am

What I don't get is how a fist fighter do better then daggers?

I supose it all depends on how good you are with your fists, knives.
Besides, a dagger will only make a few small holes, where the blood slowly ooses out from and one dies at a leisurly pace. Where as a fist, will squash a face in no time and break a lot of bones perhaps even causing the brain to be damaged (unless you are an ork

) and all kinds of internal ruptures and derangements .

*sorry 'bout the graphic description*

Ezor Edwickton · Post by **Ezor Edwickton** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:45 am

no no no, dagger would do much more damage in much less time. Causing deep cuts causing you to bleed out really fast, passing, out from blood loss and all. If the knife slashes accross you'd get i nice long kinda deep cut. If the stab with it, it could hit internal organs or arteries(spelling).
fists could would cause damage and maybe even internal brusing. But wouldn't compare to that of a knife attack.

Cuderon · Post by **Cuderon** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:20 am

Fists are useless against a target that wear armor of any kind. Imagine you feel somebody punching against your hard leather armor... it may hurt a bit, but if you´re a good fighter there will be nothing that could be made to a fist after you use your sword.
Attacking someone with bare hands who is armed with a weapon is just bad RP, with exception to lizards who should have a claw fighting skill. Probably people that are in a state of dispair may react that way...

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:53 am

Double daggers then should also be faster then a FireSword. About same speed as fists.

Bombor · Post by **Bombor** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:30 am

Cuderon wrote : "Fists are useless against a target that wear armor of any kind."

You want to try me on that Cuderon ? *G*

Let me put it this way.
If a Dwarf can create armor, then we sure as hell can destroy it.

Have you never seen a dwarf punch a hole through plate mail?

I love this topic...

Badmosche · Post by **Badmosche** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 11:45 am

Most of you are on a wrong way.

You think the heaviest armor and the "best" weapon is the right way. But let me say: It isnt.

Different enemies needs different equipment.

Bad.....

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 3:10 pm

Frankly, I enjoy the fact that somebody wearing excessive armor (two shielding) can be taken down by fists. Why? They're encumbered by so much armor, they don't have time to duck any punches to the head. Even if they're wearing a helmet, I'm sure it's going to hurt them if you're wearing knight gloves and palm smash them...

Anyway, there's the New Combat topic in the Proposals forum. Put your ideas there.

Vindigan · Post by **Vindigan** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:22 pm

People are always complaining about the players that keep coming back to fight you even once they have died countless times before, but no-one cares that you can punch someone hundreds of times and not feel a thing?? your fists are not made from metal and after a few punches, even to bone, your fists will begin to hurt. So much so that you will not wanna carry on.

What if the guy gettin punched is wearing a full faced helmet and chain mail? thats gonna hurt you more than it will be the guy getting punched. Just try punching the wall a few times and you will know what it feels like.

Aristeaus · Post by **Aristeaus** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 10:59 pm

well you could count the bare fist fighter's as street fighting thug, who pushes he's opponent down, unclip's thier helm, and continually smashes thier head against the floor

Bloodhearte · Post by **Bloodhearte** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 11:36 pm

Bloodhearte wrote:...Even if they're wearing a helmet, I'm sure it's going to hurt them if you're wearing knight gloves and palm smash them...

Anyway, there's the New Combat topic in the Proposals forum. Put your ideas there.

Really, must I quote myself? Who on earth would use bare fists against metal? The wearing of knight gloves is efficient for fist fighting.

Ezor Edwickton · Post by **Ezor Edwickton** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:53 am

Try uncliping someone helmet when they are swinging a blade at you.

I think first fights should only be worth while in something like small fist fight on the streat with no armor. Something that you could easily walk away from without dying. (if it dosen't go on too long). Where as if you hit someone with armor it should have next to no affect.

Trager · Post by **Trager** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:27 am

I'll just say this, as it also happens to be the reason that I was forbidden to watch any events, and not be a member of a particular S.C.A. group in an unnamed area....

(oh, speaking of which.. remember: being dressed in garb is not enough.. you need to be a card carrying member to participate in field battle recreations, and you should run and explain you're not part of the event, if they come that close to you.... k... disclaimer out of the way.. here's the example)

Say a thief... garbed in simple clothing and leather boots... encounters a badly trained knight... well...

Said knight advances upon said thief... knight has superior armor, superior weapons, and superiorly obvious weakpoints...

Said thief does not suck with martial arts, and uses said knight's momentum against him, and even manages to send a few, as far as I'm concerned, innocent strikes to vulnerable points (leather which covers the joint points, or back crook of the leg) and manages to stun them safely and without injury...

If said theif really wanted to cause damage, theres under the throat of the helmet, grappling the person to unhitch the helmet, or judicious grabbing of breastplate to topple them over...

K.. I'm babbling now... but.. just because you're facing someone in platemail, does not mean you are ineffective.. you just have to know what you're doing.......

That being said.... d**n straight, if I'm stupid enough to punch a steel helmet, unprotected, then I better either have the strength or skill to do it properly and not hurt myself, or I should expect at least 20 minutes of resetting my fingers back into their sockets...

K.. babbling again... shutting up... seeing what the next guy says...

Trager · Post by **Trager** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:32 am

K.. upon seeing what I wrote, will just say in my defense:

He was charging me.. his eyes showed me as the obvious target, and he didn't hear me when I said stop, because of his long winded battle cry, and I wasn't about to be beaned with an improperly taped polearm, which he was acting like a 6ft tall dwarf, running with it over his head....