Names: Illegitimate

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Elaralith
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Names: Illegitimate

Post by Elaralith »

It is quite disturbing to me that there are currently many old characters with names that break quite a few Name Rules. I am bringing this to light so that this may be changed hopefully:

List (If any have any more names to add feel free)

Caranthir : This name belongs to a dwarven character in illarion. In the book the "Silmarillion" by JRR Tolkien a famous elf is called Caranthir. Coincidence? I think not. Obviously the name Caranthir is for an Elf and does not fit for a dwarf - very obvious rule broken there. I think this is a case of someone naming their char "Legolas"...

Fedaykin : This name is from the "Dune" book series and refers to a type of "desert soldier". In illarion it is the name of a human. This breaks the rule that says that in no way may a word be a name. (Someone calling their char "Firenze" was told that was an illegitimate name since it was a city in Europe...if "Firenze" cannot be allowed then "Fedaykin" should most definitely not be allowed!)

Night Dragon : This is quite obvious I would say….this name is for a dwarf character. Breaks obvious rules. Not in the Rp atmosphere and is composed of two words.

Sherwood : Again for a dwarf, hmm there is a place called Sherwood. Breaks a rule. And also not too good Rp.

What do I propose for these items of distress? That they have their names changed immediately through email to the GMs! The fact that these names are on existing characters that walk in illarion does much to ruin good Rp besides being a point of annoyance.

I am sure there are many that would like these names changed, and would like to see I done soon as I do.

Note: Again, for everyone if you see a name that breaks one or more of the Name Rules feel free to add it to this list to bring it to the public attention so it may be corrected ASAP.
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Burin
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Post by Burin »

Randelf: A creature in a playstation game. ;)

That is one out of game reason. Randelf is not a dwarf name. I asked if I could change it, I don't think it will happen. :(
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Gro'bul
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Post by Gro'bul »

Fadaykin and Caranthir are make beleive, therefore they pass the name rules. Frowned apon perhaps, but not against the rules. And, I really doubt these could be considered "well known" names.
Cosmaterra
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Post by Cosmaterra »

The only name i dont like in your exampleas is Night Dragon,.. sure that hes around?

Cause you also write the wrong name at Sherwood its Samuel Sherwood and so its okay and dont break rules,..



and so on..
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Caranthir the great
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Post by Caranthir the great »

Right, Gro'bul.

The Character 'Caranthir' is now over two years old, he was created well before any namerules. Even thought, I have later regeted for having such unoriginal name, I hardly think that I should change it.

Oh, yeah and I don't remember ruining anyone's Rp.
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Post by Crocket »

Night Dragon is the only one I see a problem with.

I think Caranthir sounds like a dwarf rather than an elf. Evidently it's not a really famous name or I would have heard of it. The first time I've heard it is here and it was the name of a dwarf. So to me Caranthir sounds good for a dwarf name not an elf name.
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Moathia
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Post by Moathia »

Caranthir, is good for a dwarf, depending on how it's pronounced,

Car-Anth-or, sounds ok for a dwarf, but the proper way to say it would be

Cair-in-thar is elfish.

Samuel Sherwood, is not a dwarf like name, it would be better for a halfling, Samuel Ironhammer, would be better, but Samuel doesn't sound like a dwarfish name.
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Belegi
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Post by Belegi »

Hmm I guess I have to add something:

In Tolkiens books the dwarves keep their real names secret and use "camouflaging" names if they deal with other races. Many dwarves choosed names out of the sindarin language, so an elven name for a dwarf wouldn´t be an uncommon one, although we are not in middle earth! The real khuzdulian names and the whole dwarven language were kept secret, there are only few khuzdulian words known, i.e. Khazad-Dûm or Gabilgathol, names of dwarven towns.

What I wanted to say is that almost any name fits for a dwarf (as long as you refer to Tolkien!) because it isn´t his real name, so Samuel or Caranthir are in fact quiet suitable.

Yours Belegi
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Bloodhearte
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Post by Bloodhearte »

Ah, I have one.

Elaralith - it has the name of one of Illarion's goddesses in it, and I think it would be humorous to have people running around named Moshranlith, Ronaganlith, Malachinlith, Oldranlith, and so on.

Just a thought. :lol:
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Darlok
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Post by Darlok »

Than would my Name also be illegal.

I thought it was original and just made up by me. But to my shame a Player once told me it is also a Race of "Master of Orion II" (a great game).

So if Fedaykin, a Player who has done more for Illarion than you know, has to change his Name, i would need to do it also.
And I wont.
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Elaralith
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Post by Elaralith »

@Cosma Good to hear that Night Dragon is no longer around....but I do recall seeing a name like that before.
@Caranthir If a dwarf was walking around called "Legolas" don't you think that ruins the RP? Your name is from an elf in one of the books of the well-known Tolkien just as "Legolas" is.
@Belegi You correct that the dwarves never give their true names but go by such names as "Balin, Gimli etc." But surely you see that even in these names there is a "dwarven" ring to it. The name "Caranthir" is elven and no dwarf would go under an elven name...
@Bloodhearte I don't think it would be humorous to have been named Malachinlith and so on. "Elara" is not a word in the English language therefore the name "Elaralith" breaks no rules...on the other hand "Blood" is a word in the english language and so "Bloodhearte" is an illegitimate name...I do recall a certain human char running around with that name.
@Darlok Read the rules. Nowhere does it say that you cannot name your char by copying names from games and books (though it shows a lack of imagination and is frowned upon). Therefore, you actually have no need to change your name anyways whether you want to or not. The issue is not how much "Fedaykin" has done. The issue is that the name "Fedaykin" is a word and therefore breaks a rule in the Name Rules and therefore should be changed.

Anyways, my point is if the name screening process is going to be so strict as to not allow such names as "Firenze" then such names as Caranthir and so on should definitely not be allowed. It is not fair that the older players are given some kind of "lenience". It would be better that such names be changed in my opinion.
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Darlok
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Post by Darlok »

"Fedaykin" may be a word in the novel "Dune", but I cant find any hint that its also a common word in our (or any other) Language.

"Bloodhearth" is his lastname, the Characters firstname is Fortinbris.

"Caranthir" might be a name out of a book, but unfortuantly I never read any book of Tolkin or a book based upon his novels. Therefore Caranthirs name doesnt seem to break any rule to me.
It doesnt even apeal "elven" to me.

By the way, you said yourself:
Read the rules. Nowhere does it say that you cannot name your char by copying names from games and books Therefore, you actually have no need to change your name anyways whether you want to or not.
Will you now leave this issue?
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Grant Herion
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Post by Grant Herion »

Elaralith, how does it effect your character at all? Is your roleplay so poor that names ruin it for you? Your character hasn't read LOTR or another other book so she wouldn't be bothered by it. Don't say that your roleplay atomosphere is so weak that names of little known characters ruins it for you.
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Bloodhearte
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Post by Bloodhearte »

Malachin also isn't a name in the English language, nor is Ronagan (or at least, from my current understanding), but I'm pretty sure those character names wouldn't be accepted if 'lith' was merely added at the end.

And as Darlok pointed out, Bloodhearte WAS my last name. And in many fantasy novels I have seen names like Silverlocke and Lockhearte, so I don't see how it's a problem. The reason why I put emphasis on 'was,' is because I willingly changed my own name to Vahkos Nosral for roleplaying reasons. Nice try though.

If I didn't change my name, and some odd moderator made me, than I can easily say "If I'm going down, I'm taking you with me."
Last edited by Bloodhearte on Sun Jul 20, 2003 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bumbol Woodstock
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Post by Bumbol Woodstock »

Haha Elaralith, this is one of the funniest things, it comes back in bites ya in the bottom for making this. If people do change their names for this thread, it will include you. *thinks about making his name Ronaganlith*
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Caranthir the great
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Post by Caranthir the great »

If a dwarf was walking around called "Legolas" don't you think that ruins the RP? Your name is from an elf in one of the books of the well-known Tolkien just as "Legolas" is.
I think it is really bad RP and blasphemy (towards the gods of Illarion) to walk around with a character whose name clearly resembles one of god. My feelings are hurt and heart cries blood, but who cares, really? I dont. Your name was taken from the moonsilver (or at least part of it), mine was from a book and I admit it. What is the diffrence of Legolas and Caranthir? All. Most of the people can't relate Caranthir to tolkien, that requires usually reading the book 'Silmarillion' (Which is a great book, worth to read). This is definately not the case with Legolas, who is *quite* famous because of the Lord of the rings movie, your example was flawed before you ever wrote it.

If you had compared Caranthir with some other character of the Silmarillion, I might even have accepted your example. However, since you did not, apparently I must do it. Caranthir and Finrod? Finrod doesn't sound such a bad name for a dwarf does it? Yet in the book he is elf, as you probably know.
If your RP is ruined by encountering someone known as Caranthir, Dyluck, Darlok, Fedaykin or something similiar, the problem is yours not ours. Learn to deal with it. As no rules have been broken, I don't see why you are complaining.


Player of Caranthir (yes, CARANTHIR)
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Korwin
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Post by Korwin »

Elara is a moon of Jupiter, incase anyone wants to use that in their arguments...
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Caranthir the great
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Post by Caranthir the great »

Now I am thraumatized, how could you do this Elaralith?
I hardly saw any reason for you to complain to begin with, now I see even less.
Last edited by Caranthir the great on Sun Jul 20, 2003 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bumbol Woodstock
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Post by Bumbol Woodstock »

You must of thought you were a genius eh Elaralith? Taking the name of a moon and adding a lith? How could you!?!?
*is happy he used a first and last name, god knows what Elaralith would be saying if he didn't...*
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Bloodhearte
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Post by Bloodhearte »

Poo on you Korwin, you ruin everything! Honestly, not even I know that bit of useless trivia, and I know A LOT of useless trivia. But still, there's a chance Elaralith didn't know that in the first place. This is hard to say, it's sort of odd that a goddess has the name of a Jupiter moon :shock: . Well, she just lucked out, and made half of my arguments trash.

Hm...anybody feel like making their name Minerva? It's so very Roman, if you want to implement Jupiter as a popular basis for Illarion names.

In any case, it would still be considered blasphemy in a roleplaying sense because the Jupiter star of Elara doesn't exist in Illarion, but Elara is the name of a goddess a priest known as Elaralith worships. So I suppose she can get away with it in real life...but not Illarion. :wink:
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Belegi
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Post by Belegi »

*yawn*,
has anyone read this thread:

http://www.illarion.org/community/forum ... php?t=6361

THOSE are bad names, not the names of Elaralith, Fedaykin, Caranthir, Fortinis Bloodhearte, Darlok, Dyluck, Belegi and so on.

Or am I wrong ?

Yours Belegi
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Elaralith
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Post by Elaralith »

Sorry, but the name "Elaralith" breaks no rules at all. To all you people who seem to have such a problem with it, please tell me the rule that the name "Elaralith" breaks.

My intention in starting this thread was not to complain but to compare the severity of the name rules application on the new players vs old. All the names I listed as illegitimate break more rules or just as many as some of the names I have seen in the lists of illegitimate names by Galdriel.
Keikan Hiru
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Post by Keikan Hiru »

I have been looking into this topic, like Cosmaterra said, the only Name that breaks a rule is "Night Dragon".

Actually I dont really understand what your comparsion should do.
If there is a Name, of an old Character that needs to be changed, we will friendly aks the owner to submit a new one.
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Post by Roke »

Elaralith wrote:It is quite disturbing to me that there are currently many old characters with names that break quite a few Name Rules. I am bringing this to light so that this may be changed hopefully:
From what I can tell from your first statement your intentions were to force some people to change their names, not to bring to the attention of everyone that old players were being treated differently than the newer players in regards to the name rules.
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Mandil Aglandol
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Post by Mandil Aglandol »

though...i dont know about those other names except for Night Dragon, hahaha that one is deffinatly wrong, but my chars name was Mandil Light Mage, hahaha that was a HORRIBLE name, i actually found a screenshot of an older char of mine, and it turns out i was a TERRIBLE RPer not so bad anymore, but i still am not the best ahahaha, at least my names are completely original, just a jumble of letters which can be pronounced hahaha *laughs jokingly at himself*
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Adano Eles
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Post by Adano Eles »

Are you sure? I recently discovered that Adano and Eles are both the names of towns... So should I rename my char?
That is the point people try to tell. There are virtually millions of names and words on this planet and it's literature. If you would force any player to rename their char because the name resembles some existing name then probably no char could keep his name.
The names you listed, Elaralith, don't break any rules, except of the Night Dragon of course. Yes, they are unoriginal, but there is no rule which forbids using unoriginal names, just a suggestion not to use them and the remark that it depends on the game staff's decision weather such a name is allowed or not. The name of your char doesn't break any rule too. What the people are trying to say is that it is a little bit blasphemic that your char walks around in the world of Illarion, carriing a name which is clearly derived from the name of an Illarion goddess. However, this is a matter of the rp background and I don't see anything wrong with it, as we also know many names which are clearly derived from God, Jesus, ...
Akito Tobayashi
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Post by Akito Tobayashi »

Wow... this could go on for ever... -.-
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Cain Freemont
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Post by Cain Freemont »

I've seen it too many times before and I can safely say, it will go on forever. Here is how it is going and will likely remain:
  • Elaralith complains.
    People rebuttle.
    Elaralith contradicts herself to make the rules seem like they do not apply to her.
    People get angry, but say very little about it.
    Elaralith makes another attempt.
    People rebuttle.
    Elaralith gets bored.
    People get bored and angry.
    Elaralith apologizes and chalks it up to some "troublesome time" in her life.
    People weep.
    Elaralith runs away from the argument like a chicken with its head cut off.
    Repeat two weeks later.
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Elaralith
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Post by Elaralith »

@Cain I'm afraid that if that is what you have thought you have seen then you are desperately blind...and you have my pity.

Here is one that you forgot and is true: (though I hope it will not go on forever)
Cain contradicts Elaralith for the sake of causing a flame war.
Cain repeatedly harrasses Elaralith
Cain gets reprimanded by public
Cain starts posting "I'm the poor underdog" messages in a plea for acceptance and pity for himself
Cain withdraws into himself and consoles himself for a period of time
[And repeat from top]

@Adano According to the way the name "Firenze" was not accepted because it was some unknown town then if "Adano" and "Eles" really are names of towns then you should change your name too.
And what I am saying is that if such names as "Firenze" are not accepted then such names as "Caranthir" etc. should definitely not be accepted as the name "Caranthir" is not only unoriginal but it breaks the rule of a name having the racial characteristics of the race of the character it is used for. The fact that such names as "Firenze" are not accepted and such names as "Caranthir" ARE is very unfair : that is what I am trying to say and I hope you get the message. As well, just on a side note the name "Elaralith" was NOT derived from an "illarion goddess". I did not get my inspiration for the name "Elaralith" from moonsilver. If you want to know more kindly take a course in elven languages before making rude assumptions. This goes to everyone else as well.
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Maktan Hardtooth.
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Post by Maktan Hardtooth. »

@ Cain and Elarith. This sounds like it is becoming a war just between you two, I beleive I read somewhere that there are to be no insulting the actual player. correct me if i am wrong.
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