Kommunikation/Communication

Everything about Illarion that fits nowhere else. / Alles über Illarion was inhaltlich in kein anderes Board passt.

Moderators: Gamemasters, Community Managers

Cadomyr
Posts: 756
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:13 pm
Location: Göttingen

Post by Katharina Brightrim » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:55 pm

Kommunikation/Communication

Nabend alle zusammen.

Dieser Post wird bewusst provozierend geschrieben um zum Denken anzuregen. Ich werde hier allerdings keine Namen nennen.

Ich wollte heute mal eine kleine Anmerkung zu etwas machen, was mich zuletzt enorm ärgert, wenn ich bei Illarion einlogge und was mich extrem demotiviert: Kommentarloses, stumpfes Powergaming

Wie ich schon mehrfach beobachten musste, gibt es Spieler, die in das Spiel einloggen und dann NICHTS(!) anderes tun als Ressourcen zu farmen oder ein Handwerk zu betreiben. Das möchte ich wirklich niemandem absprechen, jeder soll das Spiel so spielen wie er/sie möchte und wenn jemand eben einen "sehr fleißigen" Handwerker spielen möchte, sage ich ja auch gar nichts dagegen (außer meinen üblichen Bedenken, dass das Skillen von sämtlichen Skills und das öffentliche Verkaufen von allen möglichen Produkten nachhaltig die Wirtschaft des Spiels zerstört). Manche Spieler spielen, damit ihre Chars so reich (Manche Charaktere haben nachweislich tausende Goldmünzen, die sie NIEMALS ausgeben werden) oder so handwerklich begabt werden wie möglich. Wenn ihr das so spielen wollt und euren Spaß daran habt, ist daran nichts falsch, das verurteile ich nicht, auch wenn ich meine IC-Schwerpunkte anders setze. Aber Illarion ist kein Singleplayer-Spiel. Das zweite "M" in MMORPG steht für Multiplayer. Multi ist ein aus dem lateinisch übernommenes Wort für "VIELE". Multiplayer bedeutet nicht, dass ihr so schnell wie möglich IG an anderen Spielern vorbeilaufen sollt, damit ihr schneller den Reichtum eures Chars mehren könnt. Multiplayer bedeutet, dass wenn ein Charakter von einem anderen Spieler einen eurer Charaktere anspricht, irgendeine Reaktion kommt. Auch hier will ich niemandem seine Spielweise vorschreiben. Aber einfach ignoriert zu werden ist nur demotivierend und sollte nicht das Ziel von irgendwem sein.

Beispiel: Katharina sitzt in Cadomyr auf dem Marktplatz auf dem Brunnenrand. Charakter XYZ geht wortlos daran vorbei, nur um dann zu dem nächsten Händler zu gehen und zu sagen: "Sell" (Was an sich schon irgendwie schwach ist). Katharina hat ihn in der Zeit bereits begrüßt und es gab sogar einen Emote, wie sie von ihrem Buch aufschaut. Charakter XYZ, davon vollkommen unbeeindruckt, geht ohne Wort, ohne Emote einfach weg. Das Resultat davon ist, dass ich als Spieler demotiviert auslogge und so schnell nicht wieder einlogge, wenn nur Charaktere wie XYZ online sind.

Bezüglich dieses Beispiels möchte ich jetzt klarmachen was mich stört. Es stört mich nicht, dass Charakter XYZ anscheinend nicht mit meinem Charakter reden möchte. Es stört mich aber, dass Spieler XYZ anscheinend kein Interesse daran hat mit anderen Spielern zu interagieren. Warum spielt ihr ein Online-Multiplayer-Spiel, wenn ihr alleine spielen wollt? Ich kenne mittlerweile mindestens drei Spieler, die durch so ein Verhalten dermaßen demotiviert wurden, dass sie kaum bis gar nicht mehr loggen. Ihr müsst ja keine stundenlangen Dialoge führen, aber ein "Hallo, wie geht es?" oder ein "Tschuldige, bin gerade ein bisschen beschäftigt" ist doch wohl nicht zu viel verlangt, oder? Raubt euch das tippen von einem Satz wirklich so viel von eurer wichtigen Grinding-Zeit? Wenn euer Char nicht mit einem anderen Char interagieren möchte, weil sich die Charaktere nicht leiden, dann geht doch nicht einfach wortlos vorbei. Macht einen Emote ala "#me geht vorbei, wirft Charakter ASD einen kurzen Blick zu und presst die Lippen aufeinander." Ein Emote, der es ermöglicht nicht mit einem von euren Char unbeliebten Char zu reden und dennoch den anderen Spieler mit einbezieht und sogar Stoff liefert, mit dem IC umgegangen werden kann.

Gerade in Zeiten in denen wir durchschnittlich drei Charaktere gleichzeitig online haben, sollten wir alle zusehen zumindest die wenigen Charaktere die wir online finden in welcher Form auch immer einzubinden. Nochmal, ich möchte gar nicht, dass ihr eure Spielweise drastisch ändert und eure Charaktere nicht mehr reich werden dürfen oder nicht mehr arbeiten dürfen. Aber wenn ihr einen der wenigen Leute online seht, nehmt euch das kleine bisschen Zeit. Eine Minute, zwei getippte Sätze. Das ist doch wirklich nicht so viel verlangt. Und wer weiß, vielleicht entsteht ja dann sogar mal interessantes RP?

Ich hoffe mal, dass es hier zu einem Austausch kommt und dieser Thread nicht direkt gesperrt wird.

lg
PO Katharina
Good evening,

this post is meant to be provoking to make people think about it. But I won't use any names.

Today I wanted to make a little post about what annoys me lately and even demotivates me to log in: Quiet Powergaming

I witnessed a few times how people don't do ANYTHING else than powergaming, farming ressources or crafting the whole time. I do not want to tell you not to do that, as you are free to play the game your way and if you want to play a "very eager" crafter, I won't tell you not to (even if I think having a crafter who sells everything ruins the economy). Some players use their char to make them rich (Yeah, some players seems to have around 1000s of coins, they'll never spend for anything) or to skill them. If you want to play like that and you enjoy it, then I am fine with it, even if I prefer RP myself. But Illarion isn't a singleplayer-game. The second "M" in MMORPG stands for Multiplayer. Multi comes from latin and means something like "many". Multiplayer does not mean to rush past people as fast as possible to increase the wealth of your char. Multiplayer means that you reply if a char talks to your char. Even here I do not want to tell anybody how to play their char, but being ignored is demotivating and should not be the goal of anybody.

An example: Katharina sits at the cadomyrian marketplace. Char XYZ passes without a word, heading to the merchant to say "sell" (Which is weak itself). Katharina greeted XYZ and this time and I even wrote an emote about how she looks up from her book. XYZ, unimpressed, just goes away without another word. That results in me logging off demotivated and not logging on again all too soon when I see that only Chars like XYZ are online.

I'll take this example to explain what it is I am annoyed from. I do not mind CHARS not wanting to talk to other CHARS. But I mind when PLAYERS seems not to be interested in interacting with other PLAYERS. Why do you play a multiplayer-game if playing alone then?
I know at least three players who play seldom or even stopped playing because of stuff like that. You do not have to play dialogues for hours, but it's not asked too much to write "Hi, how are you?" or "Sorry, I am busy right now", is it? Does one sentence take too much of your beloved grinding-time? If your CHAR does not want to interact with another CHAR, because they cannot stand the other, do not pass without a word. Write an emote like "#me passes, glancing at Char ASD for a moment and presses their lips together."
One emote and it allows your char not to talk to the other char but still involves the other player. It actually gives an opportunity to handle stuff like that IC.

Especially in times like this when there are three chars online at the same time in averange, we should at least find a way to at least involve the other chars. Again, I do not want to tell anybody to change their way to play this game, enjoy your grinding if you like it.
But if you meet one of the few chars online, take a moment. One minute, two sentences. That's not asked too much. And maybe there's some nice rp coming from this?

I hope we can discuss it here instead of having it blocked instantly.

yours
PO Katharina

Community Manager
Posts: 4110
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:03 am
Location: A field of dandelions

Post by Achae Eanstray » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:13 pm

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

Looking at it from another way also.. why just say "Hi, Greetings or Hello" That can be tiring after awhile.. why not engage someone's attention...

/s HELP!! I am Stuck in this depot.. please open it!

/s Help please, my foot is caught on something under this table!

/me appears helpless and holds out her hand with a cookie "Please.. do you have anything to drink? I'll pay a cookie"

etc etc etc


However, sometimes people are anxious to do something and log.. then can simply wave and yell "I'll bring water next time!"

Just a reminder, we aren't our chars. I have a char wouldn't say one word but maybe a simple nod. That doesn't mean the player is the same.

Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:42 pm

Post by Charlotte-ate-wilbur » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:17 pm

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

I agree with this entirely.

I want to point out we have three towns with such a strict system of balance that there's nothing going on anyway. You can build a guild but then do what? Wait for a gm to entertain you?

In a way the game itself promotes this sort of behaviour. There's more reward to powergaming than friendly banter that hardly ever contributes to a bigger whole of a story. Now granted it doesn't always need to be such, but when it's all meaningless banter anymore, nobody wants to do it when they can have real friendly banter. It certainly doesn't feel as sandboxy as I originally thought.

-I forgot to mention how annoyed I am with the status quo of "do events" when the events are the same old boring stuff.
Last edited by Charlotte-ate-wilbur on Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cadomyr
Posts: 756
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:13 pm
Location: Göttingen

Post by Katharina Brightrim » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:19 pm

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

Achae Eanstray wrote:Looking at it from another way also.. why just say "Hi, Greetings or Hello" That can be tiring after awhile.. why not engage someone's attention...
True, I fully agree with you here, but I guess a "hello" is still better than nothing. Especially when it comes to people who rush through the screen before you can type a longer sentence. That's why I usually write "hello" first to at least catch attention, but that doesn't help if people don't stop.
Just a reminder, we aren't our chars. I have a char wouldn't say one word but maybe a simple nod. That doesn't mean the player is the same.
That's why I talked about PLAYERS and CHARS seperated. And even a nod would be fine, that's what I said.

Community Manager
Posts: 4110
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:03 am
Location: A field of dandelions

Post by Achae Eanstray » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:27 pm

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

I wasn't really talking to you but adding to the whole. Fully agree that no matter how much of a hurry a little wave can't hurt. Sometimes I think the older ones may be careless regarding the roleplay and it could be the newer ones need help. We can show them ways and demonstrate to both. Let's make a better effort. :D

Posts: 496
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:11 pm

Post by Karrock » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:41 pm

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

I think this problem is of new players who just joined and test game. To be honest Illarion is a much different game, and even pointed this is RP game, with strong pointing to word RP does not mean easily to new player that is. Most multiplayer rp games are rp only in name. Before we had one player, who played long time and she didn't respond to anyone. I made an diffuclt interview with her and she told that she doesn't speak english, nor german.
Old players have no troubles with rping their chars. I never found that they have. Of course not everyday player has a good day. Life happens. Other side has to accept this.

But about players who log only for mechanics (as long they don't break rules). I like they also play, because they create numbers in playerbase.

Developer
Posts: 1947
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:38 am
Location: Illarion Public Library

Post by Dantagon Marescot » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:41 am

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

Before this delves into who is at fault and why and arguments and disagreements spawning from that, let's look at this from another angle.

How can we, as a group, make it better? What can we all do to improve the situation?

The same old player events can grow boring. Heck, even I don't want to just hold the 10th Gryphons combat training in a row. Can we come up with more interesting things without over complicating it?

Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:31 am

Post by roleplayerr » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:48 am

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

Dantagon Marescot wrote:Before this delves into who is at fault and why and arguments and disagreements spawning from that, let's look at this from another angle.

How can we, as a group, make it better? What can we all do to improve the situation?

The same old player events can grow boring. Heck, even I don't want to just hold the 10th Gryphons combat training in a row. Can we come up with more interesting things without over complicating it?
:!: :!: :!: :!:

Posts: 807
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 5:04 pm
Location: Montreal

Post by Karl » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:28 am

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

Dantagon Marescot wrote:Before this delves into who is at fault and why and arguments and disagreements spawning from that, let's look at this from another angle.

How can we, as a group, make it better? What can we all do to improve the situation?

The same old player events can grow boring. Heck, even I don't want to just hold the 10th Gryphons combat training in a row. Can we come up with more interesting things without over complicating it?
The issue is that the 14 existing players are spread thin across 3 different towns and there is no single "hub" for everyone to go to when looking for action/roleplay, like what Troll's Bane used to be. It's the reason I stopped playing, actually.

Developer
Posts: 3404
Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 10:23 am
Illarion e.V.: Active Member

Post by Jupiter » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:00 am

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

I think I wrote a similiar post once. Best way is to try to be a good example. There is not much else one can do, really. This walking past one without any roleplay (just saying "greetings" is more than often also just a very poor alibi) is just one part of the problem. I put idling around the depot without reacting to others into the same category, just like "sell". I started to react in character on those issue, e.g. point out how rude the people treat the merchants.
We lack a certain "roleplay decency" which we need back.

Posts: 496
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:11 pm

Post by Karrock » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:31 am

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

Karl wrote: The issue is that the 14 existing players are spread thin across 3 different towns and there is no single "hub" for everyone to go to when looking for action/roleplay, like what Troll's Bane used to be. It's the reason I stopped playing, actually.
To find another player is not so hard. If you can't find this means that player wants to be alone. Besides the concept of making illarion just chat-game around depot/fire spot just exchanging a stories between characters doesn't need a client at all. This you can do in the forum.

Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:41 pm
Location: Auenland

Post by Falyame » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:15 pm

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

Jupiter wrote:We lack a certain "roleplay decency" which we need back.
I quite agree with you.


I think to ignore other players/ other people´s RP is a way to disregard and disrespect other players. We should value and appreciate the interaction between people IG we have as well as we should do in the forum. A simple "Greetings-RP" may not suffice and satisfy the taste of all roleplayers but we cannot please everybodies expectation. So setting high expectations to fulfill self-made criteria of a good RP may not fit to each player´s view and may just frustrate people.
At least a good way for a working communication is to respect other people´s RP, not by ignoring them, so my opinion. And remeber why did you start to play Illarion at all :wink:

Developer
Posts: 1947
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:38 am
Location: Illarion Public Library

Post by Dantagon Marescot » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:19 pm

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

Karl wrote:The issue is that the 14 existing players are spread thin across 3 different towns and there is no single "hub" for everyone to go to when looking for action/roleplay, like what Troll's Bane used to be. It's the reason I stopped playing, actually.
Unfortunately Slightly keeps vetoing my idea of burning Cado to the ground. I mean it is next to an active volcano, and we all know the story of Pompeii. :P

The actual concept of having 3 towns is great. Each is supposed to, and does have, a unique persona surrounding them. But yes, on some nights when I am lucky enough to see 7 people on the online list, and they do span all three towns, I have no clue where each are going to be. There are however a few hot spots, typically the first depot in the gate. Runewick and more likely Galmair the second one in the marketplace, Cadomyr the one next to the tavern. So there are spots you can put yourself where you might run into people, but they all lack a nice cozy fire directly inside the gate like Trolls Bane had. Which to be honest, I think we all have fond memories of sitting around the fire in Bane.

Event wise, I have noticed that tavern nights tend to do particularly well in general. It isn't a lame combat training, it isn't a boring meeting, and it isn't over complicated by design. The event doesn't hit a niche player group, and it is relatively possible to involve at least one character per player. And most importantly, I think they bring back some of that sitting around and socializing aspect that has been lost. You know people will be there, and you know you will have fun.

Posts: 496
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:11 pm

Post by Karrock » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

And about theory of number of towns I would say more. I would see more towns at all, but with current playerbase is not even possible. We have three towns of three main archetipical mindsets -> wisdom, wealth, combat arts. If we would decrease a number of towns to two. An archetipical system would create a blue and red team. This is also diffult similar to situation of more than three towns. Just because we would as characters live in two camps, fighting each other. I doubt the situation would create same of number of citizens, same active, with same mechanical power etc. This would be frustrating for all. If we would decrease a number just to one town then how can you imagine a together playing in one place for them who in current state just have so different minsets? This could be possible if we would have more GMs to creating for characters together epic goals.

Developer
Posts: 1947
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:38 am
Location: Illarion Public Library

Post by Dantagon Marescot » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:12 pm

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

And instead we have 3 towns where it is perceived to be Runewick and Cadomyr VS Galmair. So instead of Red VS Blue, you get Red and Blue VS Yellow.

But now you have hit upon another real problem. Over dependence on the GMs. The GMs are not there to drive the story forward. The GMs are there to create atmosphere when needed, provide some of the conflict (typically man vs nature or supernatural) in the game, and to work as a game referee when rules are broken. The GMs are not there to drive the in game story. YOU are there to drive the in game story. Which goes back to the original post. If all we do is walk past each other and fail to participate in active rp, then we as a player base have not done anything to make the game interesting.

We all have bad days, I get it, I really do. We all have days when we have a goal in mind that doesn't involve any interaction with anyone else. But that shouldn't be every day.
The decisions that you make while playing Illarion will actually impact and shape the world around you. Your actions will determine the events that will one day fill the pages of Illarion's history books.

Posts: 496
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:11 pm

Post by Karrock » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:41 pm

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

Dantagon Marescot wrote:And instead we have 3 towns where it is perceived to be Runewick and Cadomyr VS Galmair. So instead of Red VS Blue, you get Red and Blue VS Yellow.
This is not true. Not only members of the Bearers are citizens of Runewick. Besides creating a mechanical situation of how many towns game would contain you can't predict how people will act. I spoke before of mechanical situation.

And about GMs: This is also not true. There are RP games similar to Illarion where GMs gather people in together story, creating events even several times a week. I rather like when people by own behavior create world like we have in Illarion. And I don't know why you want explain me this that I am here to drive a story. This is obvious. I just speak that "one town situation" would need huge support of GMs, because would create different system where people couldn't find higher goals, nor create such. People would gather just around one place and exchange stories (what is cool once for some time) and would have no challenges. This is only hypothetical situation.

Developer
Posts: 1947
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:38 am
Location: Illarion Public Library

Post by Dantagon Marescot » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:05 pm

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

Karrock wrote:
Dantagon Marescot wrote:And instead we have 3 towns where it is perceived to be Runewick and Cadomyr VS Galmair. So instead of Red VS Blue, you get Red and Blue VS Yellow.
This is not true. Not only members of the Bearers are citizens of Runewick. Besides creating a mechanical situation of how many towns game would contain you can't predict how people will act. I spoke before of mechanical situation.
Correct. Hence why I said perceived, 'interpreted or viewed as'. No, the Bearers aren't the only citizens of Runewick, but that doesn't change interpretation or view points generated by ig rp. Which once again means, that you (aka we) have to get ig and rp if you want to change said interpretation, if that is how things are actually being interpreted.

The GMs in other games may be responsible for weekly events to engage the players. Ours are not necessarily able to. Nor should their work be the driving force of the game.

But now I think we devolve from the topic of the original post. We can not change the number of towns, nor the amount of GMs that run the game. We can however change our personal ig interactions. How can we as players work to change this?

Posts: 2285
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:47 pm
Location: In the heart of every smiling child

Post by rakust dorenstkzul » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:24 pm

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

I feel that as players we have to be more accepting of non engine professions. Currently all there really is to play as is a crafter or fighter. There's no room to play as a chamberlain, a maid, a bard, a beggar or any of the other myriad professions which could be available.

Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:42 pm

Post by Charlotte-ate-wilbur » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:29 pm

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

I also like what Rakust said, we need more role played professions to add some flavor. Maybe all those "crafters with lots of coins" could hire some and promote?
Last edited by Charlotte-ate-wilbur on Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 496
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:11 pm

Post by Karrock » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:05 am

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

Charlotte-ate-wilbur wrote:I also like what Rakust said, we need more role played professions to add some flavor. Maybe all those "crafters with lots of coins" could hire some and promote?
This is not a problem of money. People are not much interested in playing someone's servant like cleaner or chamberlain. To find such a player who wants create this kind of char is possible once for a long time. And also towns don't offer rp-jobs. Yes they theoretically offer, but payment for them is not worth. Its not compared to play just warrior or crafter.

I think rather that people comment that others just not respond, limiting their answers only to "greetings". Jupiter and Katharina point that people don't emote.

Cadomyr
Posts: 756
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:13 pm
Location: Göttingen

Post by Katharina Brightrim » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:46 am

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

I was actually talking about people not even say one word. Taking it as an extreme example

Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:44 pm

Post by Flint Stoneside » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:11 pm

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

Achae Eanstray wrote:Looking at it from another way also.. why just say "Hi, Greetings or Hello" That can be tiring after awhile.. why not engage someone's attention...

/s HELP!! I am Stuck in this depot.. please open it!

/s Help please, my foot is caught on something under this table!

/me appears helpless and holds out her hand with a cookie "Please.. do you have anything to drink? I'll pay a cookie"

etc etc etc


However, sometimes people are anxious to do something and log.. then can simply wave and yell "I'll bring water next time!"

Just a reminder, we aren't our chars. I have a char wouldn't say one word but maybe a simple nod. That doesn't mean the player is the same.
Also, for people who want to play a character that doesn't want to talk to other characters there are ways to RP this

#me looks coldly at the woman reading her book before turning their head and walking off.

#me eyes the person then lifts their head slightly and sniffs disdainfully at them before continuing on their way.

Simple actions like that make the game interesting for everyone so even though you do not talk it is still enjoyable RP. Even if your character wants to punch the other character in the face.

Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:46 pm

Post by Lhosseth » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:14 am

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

First I'd like to say that I completely agree with how demotivating it can be if you go IG looking for RP and you are being ignored and see others running around trying to increase their skills. Yes, a greeting or small RP should not be too much of an effort in a multiplayer game. I also have been guilty of this behaviour occasionally, sorry, so maybe I can shed some light on why this is done.

Again, there should be no excuse to not do the small RP, but people might avoid it because they are not in the mood, you are tired and are playing a game to relax. Sometimes, at the end of the day just clicking is what you want to be doing. Still no excuse, but combine with these points:
- Small RPs often lead to very long RPs focussed on the other character, you get sucked into a story you don't feel like playing at the moment. Some stories are always the same. Some characters don't let go, so you are tempted to avoid them completely.
- You expected the world to be empty, so to make it interesting for yourself, you have set yourself a single player goal. If then someone who wants to RP shows up, you run the risk of not realising your goal. It is a switch in mindset that can be hard to make. (like a bad operating system, first finish one task, then reevaluate the priority of tasks and realise there was a more important task waiting then the one you just finished. My mind seriously works like that :oops: ) So you run off to complete your set goal, feeling bad about missing the RP later.

I agree we should think of ways to help players get into RP easier. A good way to roll into an RP with an unknown character is to do a trade or help each other. One thing I notice is that other characters often do not need help with anything. Hence, there is little reason to start an RP. If they would be in need of help or an item, an RP can start about this service/trade, or about giving pointers on the trade, doing the crafting together, solving the issue together and have a drink afterwards. Other topics can be introduced to get to know the character and more RP can follow in the future. But instead of stimulating a second interaction or trade, I often end up getting all the items I could possibly ever need for a craft from 1 very small RPed interaction, without a need for my character to return anything or any hints as to what interests the other character for future RP. Other characters/players are so eager to help for free that they take away the need for RP for getting the rest of the items or returning the favour. At least ask a few apples in return and figure out what type of fruit they like for the next RP!

What I feel we should definitely NOT do, is trying to Force others to RP, by making the game harder and less fun to play on your own. Since the world is often empty, you want people to have enough to do and have a fun time doing it, to stick around until someone else comes along and there can be RP. What does it matter that you have 10 new players running around skilling? Of those 10, 2 will eventually get into the RPing and be an addition to the game. The other 8 will leave, ignore them. But if you make it uninteresting for all of those 10 to start with, you won't have the 2 that stick around either. My advice is: first make it fun, then get everyone to RP. Many of us started off RP shy and learned how to enjoy it gradually.

Another weird suggestion: put a cap on running. Either make it so that after 5 minutes of running the characters gets too tired to run, or make them need a lot more food when they are running. Both are very realistic. If we discourage running in towns and while crafting, we get more time for typing an RP when other characters pass us by and we can snatch them up in an RP. (or is this just the Elfess in me, who doesn't feel the need for haste, ever :P)

Lia

User avatar
Posts: 907
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:12 pm
Illarion e.V.: Support Member

Post by Lia » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:47 am

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

Es gibt aber auch Spieler die lassen einem gar keine Zeit zum reagieren. Bsp man steht an der Truhe , ein anderer kommt sagt "Hallo" und bevor man reagieren kann ist die Person wieder weg und beschwert sich später das die Leute kein Rp machen.

Ich persönlich habe aber nicht immer Lust nur mit einem simplen Hallo zu reagieren oder jemand zu grüßen. Ein Emote kann das Ganze viel mehr ausschmücken.

Andererseits bin auch ich schon Rp ausgewichen weil ich wie Lhosseth schon schrieb ein Ziel hatte was ich erreichen wollte, oder eben gerade nicht die Nerven für Rp hatte.
Wobei ich dann auch schau das ich den Leuten direkt aus dem Weg gehe um möglichst gar nicht erst in die Situation zu geraten auf RP reagieren zu müßen.

Ich denke es ist schwierig an dem Ganzen etwas zu ändern. Man könnte die Leute zwingen. Es als Regel einführen, das sobald man on kommt auf Rp reagieren muß. Aber auch vernünftig mit NPC Kommunizieren.
Nur das würde vermutlich eher nach hinten los gehen.


Schwieriger ist es letzendlich Rp zu finden wenn man welches sucht. ( Mal abgesehen von den Leuten die eben ohne ein Wort an einem vorbei laufen ) Bei manchen Charakteren weiß man wo die sein könnten, einfach weil man deren Gewohnheiten kennt. Aber das hat man nicht bei Jedem. Und über die ganze Map laufen auf Suche nach Rp ist auch nicht das Wahre.

Posts: 879
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:05 am
Illarion e.V.: Support Member
Location: Corn country USA

Post by TiaSarah » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:22 pm

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

Lhosseth wrote:Another weird suggestion: put a cap on running. Either make it so that after 5 minutes of running the characters gets too tired to run, or make them need a lot more food when they are running. Both are very realistic. If we discourage running in towns and while crafting, we get more time for typing an RP when other characters pass us by and we can snatch them up in an RP. (or is this just the Elfess in me, who doesn't feel the need for haste, ever :P)

To be fair, chars that are seriously grinding only run half the time... because they are too burdened with resources the other half. :) While I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea, I would say it should be linked up to a trait, like constitution or maybe strength, not just a flat cap for everyone. It would be silly for a soldier who spends hours training to be the peak of physical fitness, to have the same endurance as a baker who thoroughly enjoys eating the treats they make.

Back to the main topic: I myself have been discouraged as of late. I am very limited on the time I can spend IG with the hours I am working, so I always want to make the best of what little I have. I play the game for the RP. If I wanted a single player experience, I have several other options on my PC and 2DS. This is not a new problem, it's been the deciding factor in most of my breaks from the game for the past decade. That being said...
Lhosseth wrote:- You expected the world to be empty, so to make it interesting for yourself, you have set yourself a single player goal. If then someone who wants to RP shows up, you run the risk of not realising your goal. It is a switch in mindset that can be hard to make. (like a bad operating system, first finish one task, then reevaluate the priority of tasks and realise there was a more important task waiting then the one you just finished. My mind seriously works like that :oops: ) So you run off to complete your set goal, feeling bad about missing the RP later.
I am guilty of this myself. I see the online list is empty, or I know that the players online won't be interested in RP, so I set my char to a task... usually farming. Granted, farming usually has more downtime (Unless you do it the Pryler way! If you're going to grind, do it right!) but I still see the opportunity for a bit of RP. Era ends up with people watching her farm all the time. Chatting while working, depending on the engine mechanics of the task, isn't too difficult. Yes, there will be interruptions "Excuse me while I run to the depot to unload this." but, even that can be turned into RP. "This is getting heavy. If you aren't too busy, would you care to be my mule? I can pay in coin or cakes!"

Even if the RP isn't feasible/desired, a simple "Forgive me, I am rather pressed for time at the moment. I simply must get this order done today!" is better than just walking away. Even the language barrier can be addressed. I've seen many times where a greeting in New is met with a greeting in Old, just to establish that the person is not being rude... they simply don't understand you.

In the end, this is something that has been going on since I joined Illarion. Unfortunately, it just becomes more obvious as the number of players lowers. Even though the front page says that the game focuses on true role playing, I agree that forcing the issue will only make it worse. The best advice I have is "Be the change you want to see in the world." Lead, and maybe... just maybe others will follow.

Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:44 pm

Post by Flint Stoneside » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:57 pm

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

I understand where this topic came from. It can be frustrating and annoying when you play this game for the RP experience, since this is a RP game, and others do not seem to want to take part. That is just the way it is at the end of the day. Some will, some won't. Some may just not like RPing and want to train skills. Fine, let them. Or some may have RL issues that make them not want to at that moment. Fine. Life happens. What you have to do in those moments is just enjoy the RPing experience yourself. That is what I do. My character sat in Cadomyr by the fountain brushing her hair and using her reflection in the water to try out new hairstyles for an hour. Excuse me, 3 hours IG time. Sure I wanted someone else to RP with, and the one person I saw for a few seconds was not interested in joining me despite my best RP skills being put to work the moment I saw them. The coolest thing, and the best thing, about Illarion? Is there ARE people who will RP. They might not be on a lot, or always around, but when they do come you have awesome RP that you remember for a while, sometimes forever. Those few moments are why I started to play Illarion, why I still play Illarion, and why I will continue to play Illarion. Try not to focus on the bad or it will just bring you down. Stay positive. And if anyone ever wants some RP feel free to find any of my characters. If you would like to know who I play send me a message and I will gladly tell you. Fair warning, not all of them are friendly. Hope to see you all IG. Looking forward to any and all RP.

Developer
Posts: 1947
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:38 am
Location: Illarion Public Library

Post by Dantagon Marescot » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:06 pm

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

I feel the overwhelming need to come back to this topic and add to it about forum posts.

First off, if you leave a post unsigned or label it as unsigned, your posts will essentially be ignored. If you sent a letter to someone IRL, and there was no marking as to who you are or why I should respond to you, I will quite frankly not. There is also a little red light that goes off in the back of my mind, that an unsigned post may not be legit, and simply exists to troll others. Which means if you are going to get a response, it most likely won't be a nice one.

On the other hand, does no one use the forums for communication any more? I've sent various PMs to people, ic as a written letter, and have had them ignored. I posted that a something was happening ig, and had people other than the two of us standing around the area, shown up, it might have been a BIG something. Two or three whole hours passed before another soul showed up to see what was going on, and by that point, it had basically ended. No one came out of curiosity, no one of any note responded. Nothing. Nada. Something possibly catastrophic is happening in your town and you simply don't care?

What needs to be done to bring back some of the engagement we had previously?

And once again, do not start up a tirade about whose fault it may be. That is counter intuitive to the issue and does not help in solving it.

Lia

User avatar
Posts: 907
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:12 pm
Illarion e.V.: Support Member

Post by Lia » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:56 pm

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

@ Dan

I think that is more due to the general displeasure than to the "It does not interest my character"
For some weeks you can observe how the activity has dropped. You barely see any people online, and there seems no really joy for Illarion.



Ich denke das liegt mehr an der allgemeinen Unlust als an der "Es interessiert meinen Charakter nicht"
Seit einigen Wochen kann man beobachten wie die Aktivität abgesunken ist. Man sieht kaum noch Leute online , und es scheinen auch wenig Leute Lust auf Illarion zu haben.

Developer
Posts: 1947
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:38 am
Location: Illarion Public Library

Post by Dantagon Marescot » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:01 pm

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

Then what would encourage people to get back ig? I can, and have, been ig for hours doing idle craft work hoping to eventually catch someone wanting to rp. Does no one have a desire to do so any more? What do you want? What would bring joy back to the game?

Events? GM run quests? A weekly tavern night? Do I need to roll a new character to play the new big bad? I will if I have to, but I am more interested in rp than pging or pking. What will bring back the joy and create interest?

----
Ich bin so genervt dass ich wird mein schlecht Deustch ihr zu unterwerfen.

Dann was möchtest du? Was bringt Leute ins Spiel? Ich kann ins Spiel gehen und idle. Hoffentlich ein andere Spieler kommt und wir rp können. Haben ihr kein rp
begehren? Was findest du interessant? Was bringen ihr die Fruede ins Spiel?


Das Geschehen? GM aufgaben? Wöchentlich Feierabendbier? Sollte ich einer Neu Charakter erschaffen? Ein neuer Bösewicht? Ich kann, aber ich finde rp, nicht pging or pking, noch mehr interessant. Was willst die Fruede zurückbringen?

Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:42 pm

Post by Charlotte-ate-wilbur » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:15 am

Re: Kommunikation/Communication

Admittedly my motivation has been fleeting these past couple days. I just find that rp itself can be frustrating with characters whom are controlling and who kinda disregard whatever you say and make their own delusional assumptions, I get these are characters and not players but at what point are you playing a part vs ruining the game?

I decided to check out player statistics yesterday, max of 30 people on in a whole year? 56 players total? a year ago we had over a hundred and a year before that I think we had over 200. We had some basic magic implemented this year, yet the count has still drastically dropped, if thats not an obvious pointer thats somethings wrong I dunno what is.

So then what happened?

Return to “General / Allgemeines (Player Forum)”

cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
Designed by ST Software.