Some devoted spice

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Mephistopheles
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Some devoted spice

Post by Mephistopheles »

Greetings,
I'm looking for interested players who actively want to get some spice into the grind. I want to start yet another guild, however I'm also looking for feedback. Cults have become a thing of the past, they only get squished quickly. I have tried a sort of 'brotherhood' theme in the past, however lack of central control made it fall apart.

From a cult of lawful evil deathknights, to a band of outlaws, what sort of evil does illa want to see?

When I talk of an evil guild, I talk of orchestrating plots of vengeance, power seeking through dark magics, seizing lands etc. All of which needs careful roleplay and varied levels of involvement. But using greedy merchants is easy enough to supply a guild, we need guys who are also willing to risk their chars standing in a town and to deal with the occaisionally unfair situation, we'll need to show continued involvement as a guild before we try to seek reward through questing.
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Trufalia
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Trufalia »

If it involves more coins I'm interested enough to talk further. It depends how evil and how sneaky :)
Tru
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Morbius
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Morbius »

I LIKE EVIL GUILDS! :) :) :)

...but I probably already have my fingers in too many pies.
Trufalia wrote:It depends how evil and how sneaky
The evilest, probably.
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Karrock
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Karrock »

Join to albarians than create new guild for none (only very few play evil characters). I do not any evil acts because guild is still weak and has only two memebers actually.

Read this.
http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... =1&t=40624
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Mephistopheles
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Mephistopheles »

I still think a 'Renegade haven' sort of thing. A group devoted to protecting criminals and inspiring business.

Think it can stick?
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Po Will
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Po Will »

Generally, evil depends on the flip of the coin. You can be polar evil, but you're going to get stomped pretty quickly regardless. I'd imagine it's the one thing cities can agree:

" D'hem mean baddies beh bad! Les go stomp! "

If you're going for evil that doesn't instantly get flattened, subtlety is your best friend. Work for a kingdom, get high up, laugh with the goodies, make them see it your way, and before they realise the frog's in the pan, it's already cooked! :D

Would take out the need for building a new place, with the right work with the admins/gms, you could probably occupy a building or build something else in the city you set up base of operations.
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Karrock
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Karrock »

My guild can exist as "evil" 'cause gathers sexists and racists who want to rule others.
But I doubt that guild based on attacking other characters would exist long. And there exist no other crime than attacking. So stealing or smuggling or selling illegal goods don't exist in game. Or maybe exists "evil" cultism. That's all.
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Katharina Brightrim
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Katharina Brightrim »

Karrock wrote:So stealing or smuggling or selling illegal goods don't exist in game.
What? Of course, use your creativity.

#me tries to grab into XY's chest as XY looks to ST. If successfull he would grab the first item he touched.

This obv is criminal and it leaves the victim with choosing which item is lost and if it's successfull or not. You don't need the mechanics for that, just RP it.

Or sell wine punched with sibanac which makes people ill (tell the Player of char XY "this wine is poisoned/punched/will knock your char off/whatever).

Another exmaple (just for pointing out) for things you can do ig is swiming, does your char never go swiming just because you cannot enter the water-tiles?
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Karrock
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Karrock »

Of course you may rp some illegal things like one my char does (like stealing or robbery), but it's not very succesful (none wants to play rp-victim and most act like heroes. I got experienced in this style of playing.) and cannot allow to do such a things often.
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Trufalia
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Trufalia »

Mephistopheles wrote:I still think a 'Renegade haven' sort of thing. A group devoted to protecting criminals and inspiring business.

Think it can stick?
That sounds good to me, can be as sneaky or open as the PO and the character wish. :)




*coughs* offer protection fees too.
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Po Will
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Po Will »

Karrock wrote: (none wants to play rp-victim and most act like heroes. I got experienced in this style of playing.)

Image

:lol:
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Juniper Onyx
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Juniper Onyx »

**This is OOC information, please respect that this doesn't influence ingame RP. Thank you!

Well, my character is one of those "Greedy Merchants" you're talking about, trading with everyone as long as they don't hurt 'him', however he's also 'high up' and recently converted to Ronagan's service too. I had an idea of supporting a Galmairian Underground, something Teflon thought about too, but cannot do it openly yet or risk losing my 'good' standing in Galmair. Galmair is the perfect place to support this, but can't do it 'openly' or Cadomyr and Runewick start freaking out. An evil guild cannot last very long without either GM or Government support of some sort. Just look at the Freemen and other such 'outlaw' groups - the Hemp Necktie sucks for supporting anything long term and the Dev's aren't going to start another settlement anytime soon. That's been discussed and I really don't want to hash it out again for the 50th time.

No, for an 'evil' guild to survive anymore than a few months, it has to be supported 'within' the game dynamics currently. It could be really an interesting and persistent story-line if it ever got some traction. Only by being associated with a town somehow, could this work. If you ever decide to start something like this, of course, you have my char's support - and probably Teflon's - if it helps "The Game" and the "Players". It can't just be some 'dudes' robbing and killing who they please. It has to have subtlety, a story and some interesting 'shady' quests and meetings on a regular basis to have something for players to do without being total 'meanies'. If you can start that, I think it will work and I'll support it. :)

Have a look at this "Blast from the Past" - something I started long ago which worked well for a while. Alexander Rothman was a 'code-name' for Dusty Bottoms, the "Princess of Thieves" and the "Lone Wolf", and we talked a lot in code and ciphers - hidden names and meeting places so the Trollsbane fools (And Metagamers!) wouldn't find us. :lol:

http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... eves+Guild

*Note: One key feature is that it 'trained' new players 'How to RP thievery' of all kinds - I felt this is important because that's something people need to learn. Most people just suck at it and training them helps RP better. It's not perfect, but was considered helpful to new players.*

It only crashed because I had lost my internet at the time and couldn't play anymore. Dash took over, but wasn't the same. I recommend your leader train a 'second' to take his place, so this never happens to the new group and keep it alive.

Just some ideas! ;)
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Drathe
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Drathe »

As long as its not a polar 'evil' anything can work with the right players and mind set. Also the time to put in and wait for others to play with AND probably, most sadly, for the group to have a foot in each town for a balance of gems to be strong enough to defend themselves.

Rp is great I'm all for that in everything and way but the most notable groups, the one that people truly wanted to get in game and play with or cause a stir were those that had characters that could dominate a game mechanical fight. Its what gives the fear to bring non fighters together for safety or the war bands for battle or the weight behind the threats and politics.

But what would be the goal? You can't overthrow a town, towns don't raid each other and a 'war' is 3 people running into an empty town. You don't really need coin and as soon as a character is not so overly polite, you get banned from said town which you need for practical play i.e access to players and resources to play with. Else its sitting around on your own time.
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Morbius
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Morbius »

It seems that everyone can agree on the same point:

With the current game as it stands, a subtle evil is the only evil that has a shot at success.

I agree with that point, however the issue is that you will eventually be made public, either through your own actions, or investigations to expose you, and be kicked out. This will continue happening unless a corrupt leader is put in charge of a town. I enjoy the idea of a GM controlling each town, but from my mostly outside perspective is seems to restrict role play and player opportunities, more than it enhance or create them. ( I don't know if that was the goal in the first place, but maybe it should have been.) Honestly I would like to see the ability for players to lead towns re-instated, but maybe that's just me.
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Kugar
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Kugar »

I think Morbius and myself are very similar, as I see myself agreeing with most thing he posts. I also think Jefferson Gray and Dreadhart are so well equipped to destroy most chars in the game (mechanically) that they could indeed be the leaders that people can get behind like Drathe said. If this thing would get the go ahead and be supported I would take my highly gemmed 100 max all armor character and certainly help out. (you cannot expect clout without it). I know I may be looked on as a pger to some but rp is more in important to me than skilling, so it would be really cool. I cannot promise I'd be around *all* the time but the very idea of this is close to my 'illa heart' and I think the game would benefit, become more diverse and gain players from it most certainly with such dark presence. Contrary to popular belief, people like to play bad guys and cause havoc and dedicate themselves to being the 'joker' or 'ja'far' or 'skeletor' re bad guys of Illarion. It needs to happen for the longevity of Illarion.

~Edit: CAN I ALSO SAY!!! - That dedicating your time to trying to pk 'evil' players by searching the entire map or screwing them up in general when they're trying to start out (meta-gaming is the main offending practice) is NOT helpful. It may help you to feel a sense of achievement but it destroys the whole idea and ultimately damaged the longevity of Illarion. So, if you look on the online list and see a bad guy - just be happy they are playing ffs! Don't go chasing and kill them! Let them create an interesting rp scenario and build it up. I have first hand experienced so many badly dealt with scenarios where the 'good guys' just try to pk everything. They even try to pk a gm character when they are building tension. Don't be a complete moron and try to make the game fun for everyone, okay? Is that TOO much to ask!???
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Vwtqn
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Vwtqn »

Bad/evil as in good?
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Karrock
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Karrock »

Kugar wrote:I have first hand experienced so many badly dealt with scenarios where the 'good guys' just try to pk everything. They even try to pk a gm character when they are building tension. Don't be a complete moron and try to make the game fun for everyone, okay? Is that TOO much to ask!???
Well if you speak about incident of ritual under galmairian field, my char had to act like this (because of codex). He lost, but it would be unexpected with his built (actually lack of magic system, skills and gems) if he would win. Other players had also their motives I suppose to react in other related situations.

Main problem is with lack of players who would want to play "evil" like you would like to see or I would like to see. I have similar problem with my guild. Lack of members. Second problem is lack of savety place for "evil" characters. But I doubt we have so many players to create such a place and our "evil" guys are too much different to each other to live in one place.

If you consider that "evil" is not much supported you're right but in my opinion most cause is actually lack of players who would like to play on other side.
I read once article that after 20 few years old most players choose light side of the force in games they play. Most players who choose "wrong side" are below than 20 old. It's sad but it can be cause why we have so few players who want to play on "wrong side".
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Morbius
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Morbius »

I think Morbius and myself are very similar, as I see myself agreeing with most thing he posts. I also think Jefferson Gray and Dreadhart are so well equipped to destroy most chars in the game (mechanically) that they could indeed be the leaders that people can get behind like Drathe said.


I for one, would jump right on board that evil bandwagon. (if I had more time to play) I think we share similar views as we have both been 'the bad guys' for years, probably, and I generally speak from first hand experience which presumibly you do as well. Who better to lead an evil town? Jeff and Bob have my vote.
If this thing would get the go ahead and be supported I would take my highly gemmed 100 max all armor character and certainly help out. (you cannot expect clout without it). I know I may be looked on as a pger to some but rp is more in important to me than skilling, so it would be really cool.


I am certain that I have touched on this before, but I will again briefly to support your point. Perhaps the players accusing you of powergaming and the like don't understand this... but you simply CAN NOT play certain roles effectively without certain (usually high or maxed out) skills to support your role play with game mechanics. This is especially important for antagonistic characters because people try to stop you all the time. Stands to reason that you need to mow down all who oppose you, no?
I cannot promise I'd be around *all* the time but the very idea of this is close to my 'illa heart' and I think the game would benefit, become more diverse and gain players from it most certainly with such dark presence. Contrary to popular belief, people like to play bad guys and cause havoc and dedicate themselves to being the 'joker' or 'ja'far' or 'skeletor' re bad guys of Illarion. It needs to happen for the longevity of Illarion.
As I understand it, role players like escaping and become something they are not in real life by, well, playing a role. (Duh?) For some playerd it's a shining knight in armor, for others is a bad guy who steals gold. I feel that 'evil' roles, have a particular appeal because we are less likely to be able to act that way in real life. Every good tale has both 'goodies' and 'baddies'. Illarion is one big (supposedly collaborative) living story, and if there aren't any "baddies" to fight the "goodies" it's boring as shit. This isn't directed at you, but anyone else who doesn't seem to understand this basic principle: Conflict is what makes an interesting story.

tl;dr:

Play together, not against everyone. Conflict is fun, it's okay for your characters to lose as long as you have fun doing it. (which is kinda what playing evil roles is all about)

P.S.

Dear whoever this would concern,

Everyone knows Galmair is corrupt, basically they're the evil town where no one else belongs, so just let us put and evil player in charge and seal the deal. Please?
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Kugar
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Kugar »

Karrock wrote:
Kugar wrote:I have first hand experienced so many badly dealt with scenarios where the 'good guys' just try to pk everything. They even try to pk a gm character when they are building tension. Don't be a complete moron and try to make the game fun for everyone, okay? Is that TOO much to ask!???
Well if you speak about incident of ritual under galmairian field, my char had to act like this (because of codex). He lost, but it would be unexpected with his built (actually lack of magic system, skills and gems) if he would win. Other players had also their motives I suppose to react in other related situations.

I do NOT speak about you Karrock and I have NO problem with your roleplay whatsoever,++

Also, as ever, Morbius's post is pretty damn good.
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Vwtqn
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Vwtqn »

Bad guys ought to be tough.

In cowboys and indians, the indians most now agree were not really the bad guys. Nevertheless, the badness is debatable, but they were unquestionably tough.

Bad guys should also be individualistic, freedom loving persons. Preferably, with a darkening worldview and outlook.

Background story could include being neglected or under protected and having to fend for self and very survival.

all the above = bad as in good
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Mephistopheles
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Mephistopheles »

^ sounds like bob :roll:
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Kamilar
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Kamilar »

As I see it, the game currently demands players all play 'good guys' or face harsh sanctions from game mechanics controlled by other players. This has led to a stagnant and uninteresting game world because in a system where one side holds all the power, there is no reason for them to compromise or cooperate.

Why should the players of the 'good guys' go along with any 'bad guy' RP in a game where they can simply ban them and ignore them? What would motivate them to participate? I think any 'bad guy' RP group has to start by answering that.
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Vwtqn
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Vwtqn »

Make ban impossible without sending to cross with a time limit. And only tax paying citizens are bannable.

So Galmair can ban citizen of Galmair (appears under Galmair on online list) after said citizen has been sent to Galmair cross but only while citizen has not "fully recovered" from ghosting.

Ban needs to have a time limit of maximum 3 in game days or 30 ooc minutes, whichever is the lesser.
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Mephistopheles
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Mephistopheles »

Please keep redundant proposals about banning and crap mechanics to other threads, it makes me look bad if all my threads go there :wink:

What we have to do is stay motivated, deal with/ ignore bad rp as it comes, and if you're banned continue on and show that this is a desired playstyle. Push hard to set up a camp, grow it into an outpost, then bother the gms until they give you an inconveniently placed depot. Do some quests to show what your group is all about, win some, and even lose some. If enough effort is put in the game will change with us (hopefully, I'm trusting you people again ).
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Trufalia
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Trufalia »

I am good to form this group as is, my character is not strong but IS sneaky, is not totally evil but very greedy and has a secret past. I say allow a variety of characters in and allow them to roleplay as they see their character, also hide or be out in the open. I am totally open to the consequences of this particular character....so whatever happens, will.

PS Even if someone is banned if there is enough support in the towns it will help :D
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Mephistopheles
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Re: Some devoted spice

Post by Mephistopheles »

Great, will probably find you ingame then. (once I get a new keyboard )
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