Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

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Morbius
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Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Morbius »

Hi everyone,

So I found myself looking through the old orc clan guild boards (that I am still somehow a member of) and I've been feeling a bit nostalgic.

Anyone remember Da Orcs ob da northern mountains?

Or the Blackhorn Clan?

I do. They were fun, and I miss role playing as an orc, and hopefully some others feels the same way!

It seems that there is a distinct and troubling lack of a solid orc guild since the VBU. (correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't been around) I feel like this needs to change.

I'm only after expressions of interest for the moment, so just PM me, or post down below if you think you might be interested in forming some kind of orc clan together! Or just want to toss some ideas around. All greenskins are welcome! :mrgreen:
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Caswir
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Caswir »

I'd be down. I want to make an orc character, but would definitely prefer to be apart of a clan. And since I cant convince my friends to make orc characters, this sounds like a great alternative. Excellent! \m/
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Mephistopheles
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Mephistopheles »

Juumajistan has an orc hierarchy but not all members are necessarily orcs, centered on controlling lands of their own.

If you ask around you'd hear about their members ig
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Morbius
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Morbius »

Caswir wrote:I'd be down. I want to make an orc character, but would definitely prefer to be apart of a clan. And since I cant convince my friends to make orc characters, this sounds like a great alternative. Excellent! \m/
Nice! Glad to hear it Caswir! Maybe if a big awesome guild is established your friends will change their minds about making orcs?
Mephistopheles wrote:Juumajistan has an orc hierarchy but not all members are necessarily orcs, centered on controlling lands of their own.
Are they in a clan? Maybe Juumajistan would make an excellent chief if he already has an established following? (but that's up to you ofc)

I don't have any plans to manage a guild personally, because I don't think I can get IG enough as I would like to support that kind of commitment. (unfortunately I am usually at work during peek times)
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Karrock
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Karrock »

Problem with becoming chief of all orcs is level of char. Orcs boss is always strongest orc of all around. Can your orc char defeat Kraex or Juumajin?
Juumajin claim laws to become leader of all orcs. So your char first should defeat him. Otherwise it would look strange to orcish way of thinking.
Besides such a guild should have own territory. I can't imagine horde where all members live in all three towns between other races.

Same lacks guild for dwarves, elves, lizards, halflings. After vbu characters should unite goal, not race.
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Mephistopheles
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Mephistopheles »

Yes, the orcs of Juumajistan are in a clan, however some chars who hold rank are not orcs, some orcs may have a problem with that, even though those folks have rank for their contribution and measure of skill.

Basically if someone doesn't listen to their superior he gets beat up, :D
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Teflon »

Orcs boss is always strongest orc of all around.
Not necessarily. In all the years when I played an orc on Gobaith, the chiefs from Rugh to Murgo were not the strongest. Strong but some were stronger.

Orcs would always have my support. <3
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Morbius
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Morbius »

Karrock wrote:Problem with becoming chief of all orcs is level of char. Orcs boss is always strongest orc of all around. Can your orc char defeat Kraex or Juumajin?
Not really interested in being chief, so that's fine. The thought of skilling and gemming is just... yuck. What I consider 'traditional orcs' might not like the way those two conduct themselves anyhow, mingling with other races, being knights, and such. Orcs are usually pretty racist/elitist. (in my experience at least) Not at all saying those other character concepts are wrong, or any less fun than playing a thug that hates everything, they just break away from the stereo type, which is a good thing too.
Mephistopheles wrote:If someone doesn't listen to their superior he gets beat up.


Sounds like classic orc politics to me! :mrgreen:
Teflon wrote:
Orcs boss is always strongest orc of all around.
Not necessarily. In all the years when I played an orc on Gobaith, the chiefs from Rugh to Murgo were not the strongest. Strong but some were stronger.
Karrock isn't wrong, but I agree more with Teflon here. Though the chief's like to think, or at least appear to be the strongest it's more often actually the smarter/sneakier orcs who hold the real power and use the chief as a thuggish figurehead.
Teflon wrote:
Orcs would always have my support. <3
I am so glad to hear that! GM support would be amazing.
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Morbius
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Morbius »

Any more takers? I am sad to say we are still lacking in numbers...
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Sammy Goldlieb
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Sammy Goldlieb »

I miss my old orc gangtoo, Messing aroundf at Trolls Bane, angering Dji or just drinking at Borgate's...what atime! I am up for a new orc Horde!
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Rincewind »

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Morbius
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Morbius »

Rincewind wrote:http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... =4&t=40471

;) # All orcs are Juumas orcs.
How did I manage to miss this?! Caswir! Sammy! LETS JOIN UP. NOW. :mrgreen:
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Karrock
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Karrock »

Sammy Goldlieb wrote:I miss my old orc gangtoo, Messing aroundf at Trolls Bane, angering Dji or just drinking at Borgate's...what atime! I am up for a new orc Horde!
http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... 87&t=40747
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Lia
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Lia »

Karrock wrote:
Sammy Goldlieb wrote:I miss my old orc gangtoo, Messing aroundf at Trolls Bane, angering Dji or just drinking at Borgate's...what atime! I am up for a new orc Horde!
http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... 87&t=40747
this was not angering Dji. This was...boring.


I find an orc horde great. War on Trolls Bane himself in .


But today there is no real Horde more . There is not even really evil characters . There are only a few people who donate occasional agitation, and thereby act like puperty children. It's more annoying or
ridiculous.

That means not Juuma, but i am sure he know this. :D
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Karrock
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Karrock »

Currently playing as "evil" character is not possible. If your char do a crime you will be banned from all towns. Even if you attacked only one. Stupidiy of politics in game ruins every tries to do a conflict. What for lawful evil chars is rather a suicide. You said it's boring. Groz cannot admit to any crime, there is high risk of ban. But I can do wrong things as him, because he is not lawful.
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Lia
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Lia »

It is possible , one must only hire properly .

And the Ban are mainly because some Indivduen constantly attack people and races in cities .
Because They like to ignore the guards , if they can not actually stop a . But in rp the guards would do something.

And if you play a non fight charakter it would not funny if constantly someone come and send you to the cross.
This is not really rp.


so the problem not the ban. The Problem are this individuen who plays only with her skills, not with word...with really rp.
Criminals but also the " good Guys " . I know there People of both side who like to attack fast. So you must be strong no matter which side you stand-

I hope you can unterstand what i mean. :)
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Djironnyma »

Karrock wrote:If your char do a crime you will be banned from all towns. Even if you attacked only one.
I cant agree with that opinion. Can you give an example?
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Kugar
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Kugar »

Djironnyma wrote:
Karrock wrote:If your char do a crime you will be banned from all towns. Even if you attacked only one.
I cant agree with that opinion. Can you give an example?
That's a good point. Lia can give some examples, too?

Also, I suppose it's not very nice to say that Karrock's rp is boring. A bit passive aggressive, really :shock:
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Lia
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Lia »

Kugar wrote:
Djironnyma wrote:
Karrock wrote:If your char do a crime you will be banned from all towns. Even if you attacked only one.
I cant agree with that opinion. Can you give an example?
That's a good point. Lia can give some examples, too?

Also, I suppose it's not very nice to say that Karrock's rp is boring. A bit passive aggressive, really :shock:


No , I can not give an example . Any character that I know they are banned ,have attacked many other characters before they was banned.


And i didnt say that Karrocks rp is boring. If you have understood so , then I'm sorry .
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Mephistopheles »

It's possible to play an evil char, even harder to play a misunderstood sociopath.

I agree with Lia about the whole attacking fast, I've been trying to gauge which players I come across who prefer more emotes and roleplay and which ones are comfortable with less. Some people just can't type fast while others get excited and just wanna pk you, or hell most others just run into a town your banned from and call at you from the gates. To which one can only shake their head and turn away.

What hurts the bad guys is the distinct lack of gems, some of my rp partners are not comfortable with playing illa 60+ hours a week (not many people can do that) just to pg like crazy to be able to keep up with the lazy townies who get their share by the end of the week. Due to this very few people want or can manage to cause a lil trouble without having to pay for the massive consequences afterward. 90 odd percent of the playerbase is thus completly not willing to be "bad" or "evil" even though I'm beginning to detest such moral boundaries due to getting more involved with my char, my char has never claimed to be a nice guy but suffice it to say, the progression of game events certainly changed his priorities.

If only there was no gem giveaways.. and we had to work for em. Nah.. it'd just give way to unstoppable elitists.... thats kinda ironic considering the current meta is join Cado for more gems :D or just be a a horrible hitler of a person under the guise of a good god, pretty sure thats been the meta since vbu, simply the way the game feels.

I just ask one thing, can people try to open up to a more gray line of morality? It's most certainly not always black and white, right or wrong. Not saying everyone is responsible for this, of course not. Otherwise we'd have the lazy and boring noble lizard of Tanora, instead of the Terror lizard! Think like the chars have feelings and goals themselves, they lie, might even cheat, do an evil deed or two.
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Karrock
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Karrock »

Djironnyma wrote:
Karrock wrote:If your char do a crime you will be banned from all towns. Even if you attacked only one.
I cant agree with that opinion. Can you give an example?
My orc char has troubles with his "bad" deeds, but he did not attack anyone. After adventure with Runewick he had a talk in Galmair with Banduk. :/
Runewick is exception. They don't interfere to other towns politics, but Galmair is most stupid with it politics currently. If citizen of Galmair would attack other town's person they will judge him.

To Lia:

I know how to rp a bandit and I'm familiar with how other see bandits. I'm against ghosting crafters, but if someone is behaving as dead is nothing to him/her something is wrong. Actually people don't like being robbed even if you do much emotes. They will try to deal with that event like they are immortal. Some chars adveturing from town to town and trying to act like all towns are one, so rumors from town to town are spreading fast (Titus does same. He visits Galmair often, cause of empty Runewick).

About evil/bad:

In game lore exist at least four sides of evil: Orcs clans, albarians, drows and chaos (undeads, demons etc). We have representative three of four currently. It's good number. I know of one player who tried to play drow, but he did not get allow. So problems with lawful evil (in game lore they are albarians) is no possibility to have own settlement by lawful evil chars. My char is only albarian, so it's not very possible to play enough good lawful evil character when he is alone. I lack "pious" crusades against infidels in example.
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Kraex »

Mephistopheles wrote: ...What hurts the bad guys is the distinct lack of gems, some of my rp partners are not comfortable with playing illa 60+ hours a week (not many people can do that) just to pg like crazy to be able to keep up with the lazy townies who get their share by the end of the week. Due to this very few people want or can manage to cause a lil trouble without having to pay for the massive consequences afterward. 90 odd percent of the playerbase is thus completly not willing to be "bad" or "evil" even though I'm beginning to detest such moral boundaries due to getting more involved with my char, my char has never claimed to be a nice guy but suffice it to say, the progression of game events certainly changed his priorities.

If only there was no gem giveaways.. and we had to work for em. Nah.. it'd just give way to unstoppable elitists.... thats kinda ironic considering the current meta is join Cado for more gems :D or just be a a horrible hitler of a person under the guise of a good god, pretty sure thats been the meta since vbu, simply the way the game feels...
Kraex wrote:Magic gems need to go or be drastically changed, but the problem currently is that the magical gems keep players bound to factions. Until there is another method to achieve the same result I imagine they will stay. Guilds in the wild will not influence this decision IMO, in fact I think it will be one of the main reasons to keep them. The depth and effort that has been put into the faction system must be maintained but altered to allow independent guilds to form within their ranks.

If you want to keep the magical stones, I would purpose that the cap of magical stones ends at level 5 or by some mathematical formula that averaged out to where a character could get the max number of magical gems him or her needed in 1-2 IRL years. This way players still get the motivation of achieving a long term goal that puts them in a position of power, but once they plateau they are then able to focus on "spreading the wealth" to other players, faction members, and/or guild members.

Currently all you have is horde horde horde because I am quite certain that getting level 10 set of gems has to be damn near impossible.

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Kraex wrote:The magical gem system dramatically hurts the motivation of casual warrior gamers. Pre-VBU characters like Taylor Windslasher (Military PO), Arameh, Deuce, Dominic, Drathe, Talliss, Leon, Jorokar, Dain, etc... etc... could go months without touching the game but then feel that ole Illarion hankering and tap back into the mothership. These were all characters that poured countless hours, months, years even into the game, they all had big name presence as well, and were feared on the battlefield. If they were to login to the game now they'd be IRL years behind the eightball.

I think this hurts the game by limiting the mystery and risk associated with PvP. Players want action in their games, especially these days, Illarion should be able to offer that buffed with RP. That needs to be in our arsenal because currently it is grind, grind, grind. My summary on why the current gem system is bad for the game:
  • Casual Warrior Gamers: Will 'never' equal the gem power of an active gamer.
  • PvP Predictability: Uber gemmed will win if not outnumbered.
  • Infinite Grind: Mathematically getting a full set of the highest magical gems is ridiculously high so players are not apt to spread the wealth unless they are a non-warrior. Which again goes back to the active gamer having the advantage because they will have more gold to buy 'available' magical gems.
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Sorry but I have to go back to these posts because I honestly think they're true.
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Morbius
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Morbius »

My thoughts regarding the above comments in general: (too lazy to quote people)

Regarding gem distributions for "outsiders" and for those who don't want to be part of a faction and and want to instead play openly evil characters like Jeff/Bob/Juuma. (whom I respect for having the balls to do so) Why not just give outsiders some random gems each month? Instead of the two faction specific gems... because from what I can tell there really isn't any other reason to leave a settlement/town aside from role play... and shouldn't role play be encouraged?

Regarding what Kraex quoted, well I'm currently in the same boat as those pre-vbu players he mentioned. I literally invested years into building up my two characters (a warrior and battle mage) who now are rather underwhelming skill/gem/gear-wise. It sucks, honestly, but I've already ranted about that elsewhere.

There should be a lower gem cap, (like Kraex suggested) and I personally think fighting skill should be easier to train... because I would rather do anything else that squint at my slashing skill bar trying to figure out is it's moved or not within the last hour.

In summery I think there needs to be more systems in place that encourage role play, and less that encourage power gaming. (role play's kryptonite) Skills are a useful tool to have when role playing is concerned, sure, but people obsess over it in pursuit of better role play, (more skills more authority or options) then eventually forget the role playing all together and head of into the woods to become PG hermits. I did the same thing pre-VBU and it's sad that things haven't really changed after... 3 IRL years?
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Juniper Onyx
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Juniper Onyx »

Mmm....Orcs.....I have played three Orc characters pre-VBU and had a blast! Amazingly, after 10 years, the Orc Language hasn't changed. Thanks to all you Orc characters for preserving it, which really enhances the role-play and pride of playing Orcs! If there was a place the Orcs could 'fortify' for their clan outside cities, I would be interested in playing one again. Juumajin for chief!! ;)

As for the 'balls' to play evil characters, yeah I have noticed they are condemned soundly by all three towns and struggle for it.

Where do they go? Currently, the Hemp Necktie, but there's almost nothing there for supplies or tools. Crafting as an "Outlaw" would be suicide and a Game Killer. Outside of 'town' territory - there's nothing for crafters. How can outlaw warriors be expected to manage living there better? I sympathize. In fact, my character Bernie Bottoms continues to trade generously with them, ignoring the politics in favor of profit - like Galmair should be! Does this make Bernie an outlaw? Naw....Business is business - not law. There's Good ...and Evil ....and Business (A little of both), haha!

How I miss the days pre-VBU when evil characters found safety and resources within Hellbriar! In fact, specially keyed 'black Obsidian' raw gems used to be used as personal 'keys' in and out of their hide-out. Remember that? Playing an evil character was more supported and encouraged Pre-VBU IMO. Pity that has changed.

I mean, if the intention of having three towns was for conflict, trade and interaction between three distinct towns, and there is none - don't we have to examine why? It seems that the only difference between the towns is the gems you get. Everyone pretty much goes to where people are at anyways. IMO - we need to support people who play evil characters with a place, tools, depot of their own.....maybe even an 'outlaw' village of sorts like Hellbriar of old.

IMO - there were more 'guilds' and activity when players were allowed to strike out on their own with a ton of resources, some interested players and build something! A few examples: Caelwyn (Independent Estate between two dudes on Briar), Hellbriar (Evil Chars), Goldburg (English Dwarves), Zzyathis (Lizard Kingdom), Orc Horde (North of Varshikar), etc. Those were the days. Now, if you want to build something for a 'non-town' guild or clan...it seems you simply can't. Is that right? Why must the world be divided between three towns only? Pity.

Well, I've said my piece. The Game's great, but in ten years has seemed to lose something and maybe you all can add to this. Thanks! ;)
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Karrock
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Karrock »

Juniper Onyx wrote: How I miss the days pre-VBU when evil characters found safety and resources within Hellbriar! In fact, specially keyed 'black Obsidian' raw gems used to be used as personal 'keys' in and out of their hide-out. Remember that? Playing an evil character was more supported and encouraged Pre-VBU IMO. Pity that has changed.
You see there exist three "teams" of evil currently. Juumajin's "bandits", Jeff and Bob undeads's army, and my albarian (which is not doing any evil act cause of lack of players). We would need to have three settlements for those, but players data base is rather low and they will never agree for spreading players on map.
Morbius wrote: There should be a lower gem cap, (like Kraex suggested) and I personally think fighting skill should be easier to train... because I would rather do anything else that squint at my slashing skill bar trying to figure out is it's moved or not within the last hour.
Easier to train? I see no cause. Keep in mind that is a proffesion, and not everyone need to become specilist in this (but older chars mostly have 100 in fighting skills, even if they are crafters). More time for training means more predominance. Mechanics are also important to true play char.
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Rincewind »

I am not comfortable with labeling Juuma and his companions OOCly. The public seems to be misinformed on so many ways, even OOC there is too much prejudice in this matter. Juuma is an individual and does what he believes in, is that evil? Get IG and decide yourself.

It was said that Outlaws will get more support from the devs soon (small depots)... For the rest of it i can only say: Try to handle the problems IG, your charackters are allowed to adjust. There are not enough orcs to make an orcclan? There are not enough albarians to make a alb-army? Well seems your charackter should compromise a little to get the first steps of his final aim done. Maybe he find himself on a differnt way than planned, but at least you had fun playing your char, instead of sitting around and moaning like that "there are not 15 Norodaji to make a Norodaji Clan, -> therefore I can't play my Norodaji." Sure, you can keep beeing stubborn and tell yourself it is good RP beacuse your char sticks with his opinion no matter what... Sure you can bear a grudge against someone who wronged you once forever... but then don't complain if you never ever find any allies.
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Karrock
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Karrock »

Sorry if I introduced your guild as "evil". From lore what they recently tell to us in current quest in temple of five orcs do many bad things. Or they did in past. This is common orcish way of rp in lore. So I wrote a wrong post, because I linked these facts to your guild. I'm sorry.

I cannot agree with that I'm complaining. I tried to start own settlement but I got refuse. And currently Im trying to recruit more players to my guild.
But albarians way of playing is too hard for most. Playing someone who is racist and sexist can be problem for people. Sometimes is hard to separate some things. And few aspects of albarians should be deleted from lore. Like first night law or completely lack of rights for women. Even if they are noble. I rather "believe" in soft evil, than torturing or doing really evil things.
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Q-wert »

To go completely off rails:

I am very fond of the lore about the Old World, especially the Albar part, and would disagree with it needing whitewashing. In fact I'd like to see more prejudiced and (for modern standards) reactonary/conservative alignments ingame and less ideological colouring towards equality, freedom and modern deomocracy-stuff, that according to lore isn't all that widespread in the game world. Why it was thought of as a good idea to concept the else strict and nobility-focused Cadomyr as a beacon of of race and gender* equality (which consequently bans Albarian culture from the settlement without much player choice) is beyond me.

Having a contrast between our modern, (and at least in some parts) pleasingly open minded society and an more dystopian ingame portrait of a world is something I (would) find refreshing. It might even resonate better with the aging audience that does show an interest in the kind of game Illarion is.


Edit: I never quite liked the good/bad labelling. Characters have facets of various shades of grey, ambitions, hopes, dreams, desires and sometimes even ideals. What might be right an just for one could be the worst nightmare for another. Or not.
Edit no. 2: For the moment being I think that making anything but a guild aimed at a broad variety of characters will end up being rather small, simply due to the number of players we have. Unless of course you invade with an already existing game-foreign guild.

*Also: I am still somewhat sour at some people for gendering the previously wonderfully distinct and fitting female/male ranks. The Queen, always concerned with the rights of women, likes the new ones better, of course.
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Karrock
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Karrock »

When I speak about good, neutral or evil I'm using explanation from d'n'd system. Good char will never do a crime like murder for pure profit and evil character regard others as his tools for completion goal. What is evil we all know and I'm sure there are no excuse why someone does evil things.
But in rpg exist allignment and so undeads are evil because rules says it. Same with demons. In epic fight Salkamaerian vs Albar it's easy to say which is good and which is bad side. You speak more about neutral chars which can do bad or good things with same easy. Most livings are neutral. They have different deeds in their past. Some bad, some good, but in final sum they are neutral. Playing evil char is very hard IG. Even impossible.

EDIT: Too much complicate hards game and makes a not understood for young players. Let leave "evil" or "good" somewhat similar to heroic fantasy.
Let sin be a belonging to culture what lore says it's "evil". Instead what my char does I can't imagine what act my char should do to become "evil" and not break game laws or become IG no sense slayer.
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Q-wert »

^
Going further off rails: I find the D&D alignment system somewhat... slippery.

As an Albarian sergeant you can round up the people of a conquered village, have the men slain and rest sold into slavery. If done out of the knowledge that southern men will revolt against their new rightful lords and the income from the slaves helps compensate the costs for this war one fights dutifully for the glory of the High King, that is lawful good. If done out of sadism, it is lawful evil. If done by a Salkamaerian, it would be chaotic, as it does go against Saklamaerian values. And if done by someone who really does not give a shit, its neutral.
The same action can be done by any alignment. You only need to have the right point of view.
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