Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

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Karrock
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Karrock »

When we speak about lawful then you don't need to follow orders or laws. Lawful character follows own system of beliefs and values and stays in agree with them, doesn't change mind. That system may be correct with law or rules of land, but also can be against.
And about good. Person who kills innocents can't be good. Is bad or evil. Even when he follows orders that doesn't make him lawful. He follows orders, because it's his job, and personally can have different opinion, but he cannot disobey because of fear of death or other punishment. And yes armies have sofisticated systems of rewarding or punishing soldiers. He may even become chaotic if he follows order what is against his own codex. When he breaks important rule of his codex.

EDIT: So yes. Albar is evil, because there they are breaking human rights, and also lawful because it's land of laws. But if salkamaerian paladin would visit Albarian village he would not need to follow it laws or customs. And also individual persons who are living there can have different alignment than official is.

About Lawful Evil and others alignments.

http://easydamus.com/lawfulevil.html
Kraex
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Kraex »

Back on topic, Kraex will support/lead (if wanted) an orc group within Cadomyr. In fact, serious people can either PM me or I will try and be in the chat over the next several weeks. What I have in mind will not require skill grinding of any kind just good RPers.
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Juniper Onyx
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Juniper Onyx »

Awesome! I think I will bring in an Orcess then. I already made her up just in case, Kruella Karfang - grand-daughter of Krull Karfang (Dead Char) from Gobaith. What times are you on (EST)? She's new, so I look forward to some good RP!

Bernie is my 'Main', and Thaddeus is just a secondary to play with Silverblade (Every Two Weeks when my son visits)...so I'm free to play Kruella. It'll be fun to play Orc again! :)
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Sammy Goldlieb
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Sammy Goldlieb »

A new orc has appeared on the surface of Illarion. Some may remember her as a name from old Gobiath in connection with Murgo. Ol'hja. She seems to gather allies. But for what?
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Karrock
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Karrock »

Kraex wrote:Back on topic, Kraex will support/lead (if wanted) an orc group within Cadomyr. In fact, serious people can either PM me or I will try and be in the chat over the next several weeks. What I have in mind will not require skill grinding of any kind just good RPers.
I'm not against you but after speak IG with your shaman and you I would rather see a clan more orcish than a religious group without goal what does not reminds a traditional orcish group where strength and glory from defeat civilizied cultures means everything. Where ranks are get from defeat another one who is higher. I think game doesn't need another "good" guild where every members are equal. What does it make an orcish guild except that members have an orc avatars but don't act like orcs?
I think that this topic did not end and game still needs orcish traditional guild like Morbius wrote before.

Please watch The Warcraft movie. There is shown how to play an orcish traditional horde without making them a morrons like in Lord of the Rings or Hobbit series. :)
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Djironnyma
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Djironnyma »

Karrock wrote:Please watch The Warcraft movie. There is shown how to play an orcish traditional horde without making them a morrons like in Lord of the Rings or Hobbit series.
This link http://illarion.org/illarion/races/us_orcs.php is the official orc background of Illarion (together with the other pages about orcs / their history on the homepage). Indeed you can use other sources like films, books or other games as an inspiration for your style of playing your char, but please don’t tell anyone he should play his char like its shown in some film/book/game, they are not part of Illarions background.
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Karrock
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Karrock »

Orcs exist in many fantasy worlds, but in most are shown as morrons servants of evil. I don't want to copy warcraft here. I realise that we have own lore, of course. I point that if someone inspires in other lores from other games/books/movies he should pick that movie to color more own char. It's similar to lore what was spoken during quest of mortal tales and doesn't make orcs puppies of other stronger dark lord like in hobbit, lord of the rings series (orcs were alone, and did not serve any "evil lord" in that gm's story). It gives them autonomy. I don't tell how PROPER play I point how to play COLORFUL in my personal opinion.

EDIT: Anyway that movie is only a proposal from me not directed to Kraex personally but to everyone who consider to play as orcs. I repeat it's my personal opinion that movie helps in playing orc, but I realise that others could have opposite opinions.

Your post was not kind. Please don't show old player how to find pages on illarion web. Thanks.
Zunnak
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Zunnak »

Karrock wrote:I'm not against you but after speak IG with your shaman and you I would rather see a clan more orcish than a religious group without goal what does not reminds a traditional orcish group where strength and glory from defeat civilizied cultures means everything.
Well...Where's said that orcs have to be the "bad" guys? Besides there are goals, you cannot dispute this just because these aren't YOUR own goals. Yes, our idea is something different from what orcs are supposed to be and maybe we'll fail with that, but till then this is going to be a nice rp-plot.

EDIT: Your example with the Warcraft-movie is a good example pro our idea, since they are following a different path as their ancestors did.
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Q-wert »

According to the lore of Illarion orcs aren't the 'bad' guys. Not by a long shot. They rather are green skinned Neanderthals. Short, sturdily built hunter-gatherers inhabiting caves and living in rather un-warlike small half-nomadic tribes.
I think it'd be nice to see more of those and less 'Waagh!' or 'For da Horde!' green bulky monstrosities of muscle. The last time orcs gathered in masses in the Illa-timeline somewhat compareable to mentioned movie was 2,500 years ago, propably long forgotten by the traditional orcish people. And that was more alike of the Migration Period of Europe (with a less favourable outcome for the migrating orcs).
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Dreka
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Dreka »

I'm one never liked categorizing races on how the should act. When it comes to races it comes to how they where raised each tribe clan village act and are brought up differently. Like my dreka. She is on like any orcess you will ever meet guarantee. But when it comes to orcs. Play them how you want them to be played. Dumb, smart, bit of both, elegant, brute whatever your fancy. They are like any other race neither good nor bad smart nor dumb just. I look forward to see where this leads.
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Karrock
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Karrock »

According more to Warcraft movie: I speak about this movie because orcs there are shown more like Qwert wrote. As real persons. Maybe too much combat but it's better than we seen in Lord of the Rings or Hobbit series. Such an orc is playable on illa.

Others could pick more peaceful way, but for me... And I point for me. Orcs remind me society where achieves of fight are more respectful than work ones. Rank is reached in combat, when new leaders replaces old. Warriors of tribe are rated more than workers. Where common work is directed to weak and females. Like in primitive tribes. I don't base my personal vision on any fantasy series but on history of men, when before ancient times before invention of farming tribes lived in this way.
Zunnak wrote:Well...Where's said that orcs have to be the "bad" guys? Besides there are goals, you cannot dispute this just because these aren't YOUR own goals. Yes, our idea is something different from what orcs are supposed to be and maybe we'll fail with that, but till then this is going to be a nice rp-plot.
Living in primitive structures what was presented in ages ago and still in some remaining tribes is not evil or bad. They currently don't open wars, because they know that with current newest technologies of weapons, they have no chance with "white man". My orc is "bad", but not because of his roots but because he breaks law. I point that orcs are barbarian and live in tribes, and tribes in real life have own pre-ancient system of rule based on strength.
I don't want to make a spoilers of your group but walking and talking about religion and gather all orcs who will walking and talking about religion is not a goal. When you will have many players in guild what will you offer them to do? After getting accept from other characters your guild will vanish fast, because there exist no other longer goals.
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Achae Eanstray »

I played an orcess once and believe that people can roleplay one in different ways. There is room in Illarion to be creative in the play yet still be cooperative. Their orc/orcess can be good and follow the Queen, or without much in the way of brains and barely able to talk... the game allows for it all. There is no hard and fast rule how you play, your orc may be different from the Illarion "standard" due to circumstances in their background. Each player will contribute something different to the group as a whole and that is the one great thing about this game...there is room for creativity. As a group I have found the best way to play is a general guideline all agreed on that you wish to follow then go for it. Pick a place on the map, call it yours (all except Juuma's place :wink: ) and begin your roleplay.

PS You don't need a large number to begin. Even two can get others to join if your group appears fun and inviting.
Zunnak
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Zunnak »

Karrock wrote:I don't want to make a spoilers of your group but walking and talking about religion and gather all orcs who will walking and talking about religion is not a goal. When you will have many players in guild what will you offer them to do? After getting accept from other characters your guild will vanish fast, because there exist no other longer goals.
Walking and talking about religion is no goal at all. Using this for your goals is.
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Morbius
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Morbius »

I am fairly certain that some of the largest conflict in human history have been caused by religious beliefs? If that isn't a powerful goal to get behind I don't know what is.

I think if other orcs have a problem with the religious orc group surfacing then they should settle it in game. Challenge their beliefs, challenge them in combat, cause some conflict, make some enemies. Might be fun?

I think people can play their orcs like they want to. My orc isn't exactly 'normal'. He's a fat, smelly, useless combatant who cooks anything smaller than him. Can you imagine if all humans were knights in shining armor who wanted to be the very best like no one ever was? It'd be boring, it'd be stale. Character variation keeps things interesting. That goes for all races, not just orcs.
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Karrock
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Karrock »

Morbius wrote:I think people can play their orcs like they want to. My orc isn't exactly 'normal'. He's a fat, smelly, useless combatant who cooks anything smaller than him. Can you imagine if all humans were knights in shining armor who wanted to be the very best like no one ever was? It'd be boring, it'd be stale. Character variation keeps things interesting. That goes for all races, not just orcs.
I played few years and still play a dwarf who is extremaly common. Not a best smith not a best warrior. Just a simple person who dislike magic and avoids politics.
And my orc is a kind of muscular imbecile (but it's effect of his barbarian origin) what is written on his page. I'm avoiding to play heroes without defects. It's boring.

So okay has risen new guild for religious orcs, and there exist group of Juumajin, but does anyone would like to play in way I have proposed?
I told about society only, but in that society of barbarians could exist different kind of characters.
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Morbius
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Morbius »

Karrock wrote:
So okay has risen new guild for religious orcs, and there exist group of Juumajin, but does anyone would like to play in way I have proposed?
I told about society only, but in that society of barbarians could exist different kind of characters.
I agree that it is a shame that there is little interest in forming the 'classic orc horde' that you and even I would have liked, and are used to, but there are many reasons for that such as the town system, the outlaw system, gems etc. But that has all been explained in greater detail in other threads, and I don't think I need to re-hash it here.

No one is saying you can't play your character how you want to, and still enjoy playing with one or even both groups. It's impressive that there is one, let alone two orc groups forming at all. The problem is that the player base, especially the orc player base is too small to be picky about an orc clan.
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Karrock
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Karrock »

Karrock wrote:Problem with becoming chief of all orcs is level of char. Orcs boss is always strongest orc of all around. Can your orc char defeat Kraex or Juumajin?
Juumajin claim laws to become leader of all orcs. So your char first should defeat him. Otherwise it would look strange to orcish way of thinking.
Besides such a guild should have own territory. I can't imagine horde where all members live in all three towns between other races.
I was inconsistent to my first post here, but if people would like to form true orcish guild I thought that it would be a standard barbarian tribe.
I'm sorry but Juumajin/Rincewind forming it better even if he invites not-orcs. This what you proposed as a guild to form is more diffent to standard orcish tribe. And you Morbius also are no consistent.

Two guilds for orcs is enough, I won't start third as leader because it's too much and my char is not strong enough and I don't want to play as a leader.
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Morbius
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Re: Expressions of interest - Orc Horde

Post by Morbius »

I don't really understand the point you are trying to argue. My earlier posts were just generalizations based on a shallow understanding of orcs and their culture.

Now that I have a deeper understanding of the current orcs/orc groups that are active/forming in game, I see things a bit differently. I have already partially explained why a classic orc guild probably won't work, and why forming yet another guild/horde doesn't make sense.

If you are worried about the orc's in game not being "orcish enough" to play with Groz, that isn't what is happening here. My orc Grimghor is still a brute/trouble maker, so you can hit me up for some fun orc RP anytime.
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