Also, I'm not suggesting that the characters all be dirty - that's a player choice. Again, I think you misunderstand. I'm suggesting players with the motivation and talent to create something interesting be given the support to do that. Obviously if players are unskilled at playing conflict, those should not be the ones invited to do it. For those adept at creating some sizzle, there needs to be a way to acknowledge the effort of the player while punishing the character and I'm all ears.
I think it's really important to leave the problems from the past in the past. We did have problems with inconsequentially played bad guys in the past. We had players seeking dominion over other players. We had no control over the actions of bad guys except what they imposed upon themselves. All that is true but that's not the present situation. What we have now is an entirely different problem that grew out of trying to fix those issues in the past. I think it's really important to keep the focus relevant. I think it's also important not to let the fear of what might happen prevent us from making much needed improvements. If something doesn't ultimately work, it can go right back on the scrap heap with very little bother.
If it's fairness we're discussing, players of "dirty" characters get the short end of the stick every time. It's easy to stand on moral high ground and say those players are getting what they deserve for the in game choices they made but in the end it's the whole game that suffers with them and we're left with only our empty moral victory. It's a little harder but ultimately much more rewarding to embrace them for what they contribute.
Kudos to Silverwing for planning a shady quest.
I see Mephy is already brewing his next take-over-the-world scenario. 
Maybe we should move our personal debate to PMs to make room for some others?
