Dragons Roar

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Vern Kron
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Dragons Roar

Post by Vern Kron »

The Dragons Roar

I will admit, I enjoyed the build up and most of the quest itself. I wanted to give some feed back, from a player perspective, on what I saw happening in both good, and not so good, detail.


The lead up:

The lead up to this actual event was huge. It was fun! Having to defend the towns, having these random portals, all of that stuff, everyone seemed to enjoy. People may throw around ooc favoritism, or may be upset because it was actually involving the majority of the game, but overall I think this was a good experience. It added some dynamic movement in the game.

Some drawbacks to the lead up:

It became apparent late in the quest that one or two parties had prepared ahead of time for this ultimate boss monster that was Zaras. Apparently quests were done, or materials gathered, to create very strong and unique items. This is a very exciting and interesting aspect to the game! However, from an outside perspective, suddenly it looks like ‘Oh, look, you have all of these random neat things… How? Why?’ I am not saying that you always have to give an explanation for everything. However, these definitely came off as a strange surprise.

The beginning of the Quest:

From the Galmair side, there was definitely excitement. The town was gathering, and tensions were growing. People were stirring around, getting their best things together, and planning as best as they could with the knowledge they had available to them.

Galmair knew about fires, and portals, so they brought buckets and sand, and tools because they are Galmair. (More on these later).

When the time finally came, it was a mad dash. Galmair moved over, found the place, and joined the rest of the crew.

Now, this is where we as players started to tilt it some. We had been told specifically, by the same source, to go help. A white wolf spirit. When we arrive however, there was once again the tension that exists between Cado/Runewick, and Galmair. This was expected. It was not surprising. However, AS A PLAYER, I felt like I was invading at that point. “Oh, they actually don’t want us here, we should just go.” Is what me, IRL, felt. I wasn’t even one of the people being scolded, and that’s how it felt.


Then began the first assault, as the community moved towards the gates. This was exciting. It was good. Some people claim issue because people were re-logging, or dodging, or whatever, and while those things may have happened, I can’t impact that. I will say this: It sucks when your computer disconnects, and you get accused of cheating, and it sucks if you die, then you have to spend the next period of time trying to catch up with the quest, and hoping you don’t die again for a longer punishment.


So, the advanced continued, and that was great. Then we came to a point where there was some rocks blocking the path, and I got very excited. My character was about to go mine earlier today, when he got stopped and never went, BUT HE HAD A PICKAXE.

Oh man! This is exciting! My character gets to be useful in a thing that my character TRADITIONALLY DOES. I walk up, emote striking the rock, and a message plays across the screen that says ‘The sound of wolves howling echoes through, shattering the rock.’

Another character yells about faith.

Suddenly, it feels as if ‘No no, this isn’t you doing it. This is a roadblock that contains you all, and we will lift when we so choose.’

So, here is the thing: I don’t know if my character broke those rocks or not. He thinks he does, and that is fine. But allow characters to have moments. That isn’t just a GM thing. It is a player thing. And a character thing. EVEN IF your character HATES another one, and refuses to acknowledge that character, do not steal the actual moment. Spread garbage about it later. At that time, let the character, and player, feel like they actually contributed.

So, the players advance through. The path comes to a fork. Suddenly, people go up to a lake and start talking about this woman of the lake, and then other characters go down into the dungeon and are fighting dragons.

There were two big issues here:

1. The group became separated, and grew difficult to guide because things were unclear.
2. There was supposedly an element that a good portion of the group had not really heard about, and therefore had little reason to understand.

Luckily, things pulled back together. The group marched through the dragon area, and eventually came to a dead end. And stayed there for a while. A ritual was done, and a dog appeared and then melted into a slime. Someone suggested there was a hidden passage. If there was one, it was very well hidden.

At this point a message across the top saying [This area has been cleansed of the evil dragons, you feel a desire to move on] would have made this time drag less. I am not saying pointless roleplaying in an empty room is a bad thing, but with 30 people, and time ticking IRL for people, a bit further guidance would be appreciated.
It was then decided that these people go and visit this lady of the lake once more. Some of them went and did just that. The other half stumbled across a wall of fire, and had buckets, so they just went for it. It was another exciting moment: “HEY! Everyone from Galmair should have brought buckets, and there is this giant wall of fire! Let’s clear the way!” And so, it happened.

And off on the merry adventure they went. Until they got to a point where they found an army of skeletons and too few men, so they went back. When I returned to the group, there was now a fairy (whom I presume is the lady of the lake?) and characters talking about needing her to clear the fire away.

Except it already had been. By players. Participating.
And any acknowledgement of it was entirely shut down. At this point, I’ll admit, I was pretty frustrated. Anything I saw Galmair characters do was almost entirely ignored it felt like, even to the point that I had my character start asking Cadomyrian characters to vouch for him. To the point that the entire party went down a dead end, even after specifically being told ‘there is nothing down there’.

The next bit is all combat and getting separated and reunited again because it was a maze situation.

Finally, players reached the throne room. There was this big, black and red dragon, sitting on this comically small throne. It was both scary, and hilarious.

Unfortunately, the whole scene dragged. From the very beginning of it, Djironyma began speaking in ancient. It was never made clear if the dragon was or not, so I assumed not.

However, as a player, I understood what was happening. “Dear Dragon, we have come and are pleased to find you are not evil. Will you aide us in this fight? We have three very powerful plans in place, involving potions blessed, powerful magic ring, and awesome sword. Can you lend us further aid?” And the dragon said “Yes, I will make you an avatar of a dragon, and you can use your powerful ring. Even though the risk may kill your character! The potions will only work if used in a very specific way, which may or may not be understood based on if I am speaking in ancient or not, and you need to pass the sword on to someone else, because you will be a dragon and not hold a sword.”

Any input from other characters was treated as a mockery, a disgrace, an infiltration. So, eventually, the crowd silenced themselves and just let the scene play out. It felt as if we were not wanted. At this point, I legitimately felt, and said to people who don’t even play the game, ‘the role my town is playing in this now, is to be cannon fodder for the other two towns.’

When the characters finally arrived at the destination, I was excited. I was even reminiscing “Man, this looks so much like the old dragon cave, this is so cool! I am so glad they did that little touch! Those explorer guild people are just straight up tools for putting one down here!”

We are clearing out dragons, making sure the area is nice and safe. Half the party is on the bridge advancing further when a dragon skeleton appears. Oh, just another mob, no big deal. People start to attack it, which it was implied, would cause a large wave attack from Zaras. In my perspective, this was not made very clear.

I will also say that the spawn was a very, very large spawn. I can honestly say, I don’t believe a GM would intentionally spawn that many dragons onto a crowd. Kudos to the server though, you didn’t just curl up and die. I however, did.

I spent two, three hours IG working towards this quest, not to mention the week or two prior, for this, and I die and miss it. That was disappointing, but I also knew my lot. I don’t play a fighter character, so I steel myself against these sorts of disappointments. Apparently Zaras was slain.


Here is what I think went well:
• Good lead up
• Proper timing
• Effected the game world
• Known widely through the game
• Sense of danger
• Players prepared and impacted it

Here is what I think we as players can do better:
• Respect the roleplay of others
• Inform each other on what is actually happening better
o I get it, our towns and characters hate each other. Secrets like the Lady however, are just odd.
• Try to remain as a group. I am not a gm, so I don’t know what tools they have, but I can’t imagine it is easy keeping track of 30 people at one time, and put together a logical flow of events.
• Allow others to have that big moment. Dji was, argueably, the most qualified to deal with the dragon. How crazy would it have been though, if instead of Djironyma dealing with the dragon, it was say Bob, or Teptoc, or Ranwyln? That could have been a huge moment for their character. The same with the sword. This isn’t to slam those particular players, or characters, but we have to allow other characters to rise to notoriety for acts that make people heroes.

Here are some areas the gm’s could work on:
o Clearer directions on where to go and what is happening (the split paths were a struggle, and understandable). A quick message, even oocly saying ‘hey we got stuff going on over here instead’ would be welcome, at least by me.
o Encouragement to get involved in non-traditional ways (for example, the holy sword thingy was awesome. How many players would even feel allowed to request such a thing?)
o Communicate your needs with us as well. If you need us to slow down while you prepare something, that is fine. Just tell us. We have this big issue with ooc communication in the game, and yet I think we all understand that with the tools you have, sometimes things don’t go super smooth. If you need 10 minutes to prepare a spawn, fair enough. If you need a few minutes to catch your breath, fine. Just tell us how we can help.
o Finally, encourage inclusiveness in your quests, even when it goes against the characters involved best interest. There should never be a point that a player or character feels that their presence in a situation is irrelevant. That doesn’t mean that every character has to have their gold star.


While tempers are pretty hot right now, we have a chance to move forward and learn from this, or we can just beat everyone down. I appreciated the effort that the quest took, even if some of it had some pains in it.

All following comments:
Please try to look objectively on what went well, and what did not. What parts you enjoyed, and what parts you did not. Try to avoid bashing particular members. We all made mistakes. I should have given the pick to another character to handle, and a few other roleplay opportunities as well.
Ohiyesa
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by Ohiyesa »

I wasn't even able to find the quest location. And I ran into at least 2 other players in the same situation. A note on the website would have been nice. But after reading about how Galmairian/English writing players were treated as non existent and irrelevant, I'm not sorry I missed the quest. :)

And I do notice a thing with German/European players being more close knit or whatever. There is definitely some sort us vs them, in-group out group thing going on. I get that there is a shared language and culture but it really does come off as insular and inward looking. The behavior tends to exclude and make people feel unwanted, unwelcome. Like when two guys switch to German when an English player is around.

Which as some have mentioned makes people who are not included, not part of that cultural/language group feel left out.

(I guess most of the developers/GMs are German as well?)
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Kugar
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by Kugar »

I loved it! The lead up was epic with all the dragons and portals and events. I don't think I've ever played this game so much on a consecutive basis as I have done since mas until now. I'm having a great old time.

I can understand people's frustrations with the 'finale' quest, but let's not make personal attacks on people because that sucks, really. Nobody is perfect and everyone is just trying to do their best, right? (Re off topic stuff).

It was easy for me at least to feel like an outcast, because I play a character that is a wanted criminal across two realms of Illarion. So, the whole being ignored thing didn't bother me because, playing a character who fights for the love of the fight, I just went my own direction with a handful of others through the entire ordeal. I never once felt that the GMs's treated me badly in any way, though. I don't see how they treated anyone badly.

It makes sense that Runewickers would have stuff like that ready because they are scholars and mages who do stuff like that all the time. Galmair is more of a 'hands-on' kind of deal where, yes, our characters are resourceful ie the water and sand, but, our characters are not as deeply religious and looking to the gods for answers all the time with blessed stuff. It just makes sense to me that they would do that, really. Although, I didn't know that us clearing the fire path would be erased from history. Well, Galmair did it and that's that. Fairy or no.

All in all I had a great time and thought that the best was brought out in all the characters I met over the duration of the quest. The mass spawns of dragons was pretty mental, I'll admit. The only reason Jefferson survived was because he always keeps many healing potions and is a fast runner. Typical resourceful Galmairian..


Edit: In terms of being constructive - I agree with Artimer's points entirely. I also think that logging out if you are going to get pk'd is bad form and should be avoided. Run in with a new character if you have to, but just let the character fall to Cherga. It helps the atmosphere. Logging out so you don't die isn't.
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Rincewind
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by Rincewind »

Zaras threat was over illarion for several years. The Bearers prepared for this fight very long. Although half of the equipment used is just part of their stock, they hold since they are a super old guild with roots so deep I wonder that was all they brought. Also I witnessed the creation of the ring - I saw the effort and the resources spent to prepare the guild for exact those situations. That's more or less their purpose as far as I see it.

Their behaviour got its IG reasons and if you don't like it you should have done something against it with your character. Why does your char help them if they behave like assholes? For the sake of Illarion? :P I bet Illarion would have survived another day - even if the battle last night would have been lost.

@OP: If you felt like cannon fodder, why the heck did you charged in battle?

Why did the Council allowed that their fellow Galmairians got threatened like shit?

They(Steamalliance) threat Galmairians without respect because they(Galmairians) don't respect themselves - therefore don't deserve to be threatened in any other way.
LucyP
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by LucyP »

Lets please keep this thread focused on constructive feedback. Vern has started with some very valid comments.

I was thinking it would have been nice or even awesome if, when the ring was activated, it over-reacted, or magically exploded somehow, turning more than one person into a dragon. Say all mages... or random people. There could have been some way to cool off the PO's that were showing they had issues with what was happening. GM's need to stay alert to what is going on and how people are responding. It would have just taken a few moment's thought to apply some random Nargun-like event. So many people would have been much happier and felt much more included. Imagine how Qoa would have reacted if she had suddenly become a "vile dragon"?

I think we can all agree that too many dragons were summoned at the end, so I think we can move on from that.

Also, yes, each group does and should bring different things to every quest. I think that is a very good and valid point. Galmairian's were very prepared in a much more physical way. I was a bit surprised to see them pull buckets out of their bags and to hear they had a pickaxe. Galmairian's are the boyscouts of Illarion! We, as a whole, in Illarion, are a diversified group. We need to leverage that. Should be a place for our bad boys too. Inclusive to all.

Lets work to fix what's broke and move forward. People, plan quests! We can do this!
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Banduk
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The roar of the dragon

Post by Banduk »

For most of the people I’m sure it was a great quest. Personally I’m absolutely frustrated.

Knowing once I’ve seen the start time I cannot stay until the end prepares my mind to refuse the whole thing.
Knowing the background was mainly a thing of ooc. Thanks to Slighly who ported us to the quest because I was a little bit late.

Joined the rear guard, 10 min later before I even was able to get any information 10 dragons spawned over my head. Some RP at the cross - end of day.

That's how a day in Illa should looks like!
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Sammy Goldlieb
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Re: The roar of the dragon

Post by Sammy Goldlieb »

I didnt even log in on one of my chars. in Germany, it was 9 pm...ON A SUNDAY EVENING. Really the worst Timing ever. Work starts usually at Monday here, at 6 am, for exapmle I have to get up.
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Djironnyma
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by Djironnyma »

Thank you for the qualitative critic. First of all if i answer i do it more as a player because my char/our guild was involved heavy. For points concerning the quest itself the GMs may answer better.
However, these [The artefacts] definitely came off as a strange surprise.
Our chars tried to keep it secret. But as a general note. Since i play illarion i make by nearly every GM quest the experience, that it help to seek for creative solutions and that the GMs will support chars who try to prepare something for an event in the most cases.
However, AS A PLAYER, I felt like I was invading at that point. “Oh, they actually don’t want us here, we should just go.” Is what me, IRL, felt. I wasn’t even one of the people being scolded, and that’s how it felt.
I can just speak for me. My char dislike Galmair and hates the free men, so he tried indeed to let them know that. Anyway i as player love the struggle between the towns and i m very thankful for jefferson and his homies that we have now once again an opposition to the order. A game with no rival is lame. So i as player liked the situation and if you or someone other had an other impression i m sorry.
So, here is the thing: I don’t know if my character broke those rocks or not. He thinks he does, and that is fine. But allow characters to have moments. That isn’t just a GM thing. It is a player thing.
I totally understand you, thats the same part i like. But please dont forget one critical point: there where 30(?) chars and 1,5 GMs. It is hard to notice every try of players, as a general advise if i try something special and not sure if the GMs see it i wrote a short !gm note.
Except it already had been. By players. Participating.
And any acknowledgement of it was entirely shut down. At this point, I’ll admit, I was pretty frustrated. Anything I saw Galmair characters do was almost entirely ignored it felt like,
You have to blame the chars for it. As mentioned they dont rly work together. As the cadomirians/runewickens arrived they (the chars not the players) doenst believed that the problem was already solved. I as player was really amused that all the blabla with the spirits and the magic was for nothing because a bunch of buckets. That was a just to simple solution for my char. So he still believed the lady of the lake open the path. But fact is the lady did nothing. The galmarians cleared the way.
Unfortunately, the whole scene dragged. From the very beginning of it, Djironyma began speaking in ancient. It was never made clear if the dragon was or not, so I assumed not.
The dragon speaks into your mind. He understands and speaks every language. Dji spoke ancient for two reasons, the first was (what he said) that he dont want to insult the creature with a language created by mortal. The second reason was simple: cause dji is an arrogant jerk who want sepperate himself from the "common people". Btw. i wouldnt use ancient without the bug that anyone can read everything. I as player wanted that everyone could read it.
would cause a large wave attack from Zaras. In my perspective, this was not made very clear
AFAIK it was the only undead dragon this eve. It was a big black undead dragon at the end of the dungeon. It was not a monster, it was not injure-able. For my perspective this was very clear. The point is, that the red dragon explained very clear how and why we should fight Zaras. Some chars ignored it, just run through the dungeon and attacked Zaras directly (and there was enough time to stop attack and step back if someone would misunderstand Zaras as normal monster). I personally was also surprised from the massive attack/spawn. Maybe the GMs intention was to send a clear message, maybe he overdid it a bit. Once again one and a half Gm for a quest with so many ppl. is hard to handle.
• Allow others to have that big moment. Dji was, argueably, the most qualified to deal with the dragon. How crazy would it have been though, if instead of Djironyma dealing with the dragon, it was say Bob, or Teptoc, or Ranwyln? That could have been a huge moment for their character. The same with the sword. This isn’t to slam those particular players, or characters, but we have to allow other characters to rise to notoriety for acts that make people heroes.
The dragon was talking with the first one who talked with him, that could be anyone. Dji first sit down and waited a bit if someone other would like to talk with him. I tried to give the others a chance, cause that very special reason. I know in the moment i saw the dragon "oh if i speak now with him it will lead in blaming me for it". And serious if you as player start to holding your char in the backround because you fear trolling and flaming it sucks. Anyway Dji just stood up and took the lead after no one moves. Everyone just stares to the dragon and said nothing. So please dont blame the GM if no other char had the balls to talk to the big red lizard ;) .
Furthermore we give one of our artefacts to a char we dont even know and give the bombs to everyone who asked. Dji was just in the role to distracted the dragon. The dragonslayer would in the original plan be the one with the holy sword (which we gave away to a char we dont even know once again). The char died in the massive char and Zaras was killed in the end by all remain chars with the help of the bombs.

Code: Select all

Rakaya schwingt ihre Klinge und teilt rasch zwei Hiebe aus.
Titus Marcelius sagt: look!
Elynah Gesse sagt: pragon help us
Xanthe looks to the dragon in front of him
Ssar'ney sagt: Zzz! Usshak-Sskath bless zzosse faizzful!
Jemand looks at the crowd
"Artimer Fault" sagt: ... Ew...
Djironnyma takes a seat
Jefferson Gray kneels quietly down a few feet behind the dragon.
Oxiana stops sharply.
Evie Pryler frowns
Titus Marcelius kneels and prays.
"Jacob" readies a bow
Ranwyln waits silently nervously  playing with the handle of his axe
Vitus looks to the dragon
Elfe frowns
"Artimer Fault" looks at the dragon, and then looks back to the empty chair.
Elynah Gesse watches the dragon
Djironnyma stands up again
Jefferson Gray whispers to Ran with a silly grin.
Deanna lowers her bow
Djironnyma stares into the creatures eyes
Sarangerel mumbles as she watches.
Jemand stares back
Djironnyma sagt: [anc] I m called Djironnyma.
Last but not least: Thanks to the GM for the work, thanks to all the players arrived and thanks for constructive critic!
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Estralis Seborian
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by Estralis Seborian »

Merged with a thread from OT forum.
Annabeth
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by Annabeth »

Vern Kron wrote:
‘the role my town is playing in this now, is to be cannon fodder for the other two towns.’
As part of one of those two towns, I felt the same way in regards to Runewick or more specifically the bearers. I felt everyone were just there to be cannon fodder for them during that quest and otherwise stfu and not be in the way.
Vern Kron wrote: I get it, our towns and characters hate each other. Secrets like the Lady however, are just odd.
Neither I nor my character knew about that either. I had no idea what the hell everyone were talking about, and was about to follow the Galmairians who went to clear the fire when someone pointed out to me that it would be smarter to follow the player characters of the GMs + Dji and ssarney as they seemed to know upfront exactly what to do. Given the lack of directions given by GMs during that quest, I felt all I could do was follow those people blindly. Especially since it seems the wolf either whispered or spoke in personal messages to specific players, instead of just talking to all of us as a group.
Vern Kron wrote: • Allow others to have that big moment. Dji was, argueably, the most qualified to deal with the dragon. How crazy would it have been though, if instead of Djironyma dealing with the dragon, it was say Bob, or Teptoc, or Ranwyln? That could have been a huge moment for their character. The same with the sword. This isn’t to slam those particular players, or characters, but we have to allow other characters to rise to notoriety for acts that make people heroes.
YES! I want to see those without leadership roles or fancy titles get the spotlight, not people like Djironnyma just because he is the highest ranked runewickian and an old player, or Annabeth or Ssarney cause of their noble position in Cado. Making people who participate but dont normally get a spotlight like that on them out to be the heroes of the day would be much more fun.
Vern Kron wrote: Clearer directions on where to go and what is happening (the split paths were a struggle, and understandable). A quick message, even oocly saying ‘hey we got stuff going on over here instead’ would be welcome, at least by me.
Encouragement to get involved in non-traditional ways (for example, the holy sword thingy was awesome. How many players would even feel allowed to request such a thing?)
Communicate your needs with us as well. If you need us to slow down while you prepare something, that is fine. Just tell us. We have this big issue with ooc communication in the game, and yet I think we all understand that with the tools you have, sometimes things don’t go super smooth. If you need 10 minutes to prepare a spawn, fair enough. If you need a few minutes to catch your breath, fine. Just tell us how we can help.
Finally, encourage inclusiveness in your quests, even when it goes against the characters involved best interest. There should never be a point that a player or character feels that their presence in a situation is irrelevant. That doesn’t mean that every character has to have their gold star.
Also rewarding characters that constantly took part in the defense of the town against Zaras more actively than others were lacking imo. Such as the sword which was given to an elfess that is rarely ever seen, instead of the lizard Xanthe who actively partook in the fight against Zaras during previous quests and voiced several times his willingness to carry the sword. Sure giving newbies a chance would be one thing, but this particular elfess was an old player(who's had plenty of spotlight on her main character up until recently).
Annabeth
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by Annabeth »

Ohiyesa wrote: German/European players
I'm european and that's not the case. It's the germans playing more close knit, not the europeans in general. This game enforces english and german, causing for those that speak better german than english to more easily create german cliques. Sadly some of those cliques have turned to elitist behavior against english speakers, although luckily we still have german players like Dranis who do his best to include english speakers in his roleplay.
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Mephistopheles
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by Mephistopheles »

While I understand the frustrations, I want to point out to those who feel they were "lead" by the Bearers. I don't want to put the effort the players put in to planning and actually attempting to pull off results. I as a player who seeks to shape the game world some way can appreciate following a character that is leading an event as such. My char understood the threat of the Dragon and would've worked with them but unfortunately I only arrived at the end with no clue what had happened except now was that final showdown, because my char didn't know whatever plan it was he attacked the dragon directly and got swarmed, he nearly killed one of what seemed like 20 dragons, I'm content with that.

I think the main frustration comes from the player's lack of ability (or they don't think they can/or allowed) to explore these options to manage a solution to a gm quest. It seems that the same group ends up doing it because they're organized and know the channels ooc to get their plots and ideas into the gm plot. Gm's are limited in their capacity to help guide players as they research and try to do things to further the plot of a quest, so they often focus on the people who put in the most effort, which usually comes down to that/or another organized group.

I don't really know how to solve that besides awareness. You as players can do what they did but none of you tried hard enough. I speak of purely ic matters and nothing to do with supposed cheating, metagaming, or gm favortism.

This is what I mean by respect the rp, metagaming and favortism are things every rp game has, deal with it and enjoy the roleplay, even if you disagree with it.
Ranwyln
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by Ranwyln »

I have to admit i liked the quest pretty much, had my fun, was running around pretty lost together with Jeff killing tons of Golden Skels and Dragons.

At the end the talking of Dji in Anc, offered me a good opportunity to show i dont like him (the character not the player) and to leave cause i had to go to bed anyways.

And as Player i normally dont step infront of a Dragon or whatever to talk with him cause i dont know what the plan of the Quest Creators is and dont want to mess it up by some stupidity (and it gave me the opportunity to blame Dji once more for always "leading" and getting the honor for him and his Bearers ;) )

As for the rest, i am a german player, but normally i only talk in english so no one is excluded, but there are several players that dont understand english very well so i tend to talk in german with em even if english speaking ppl are around.


I can't imagine what hell of work it is for gms to plan stuff like that with the amount of ppl that were around.

On the other hand i can understand that ppl are pissed or offended cause lot of quests that i saw so far ended in the same ppl lead others are ignored, and why do they always seem to have more informations ooc or ingame as others. One more note is in several quests the only chance to solve the problem was some magic/tricks/artifacts, why never some easy no one thought of solution, but hey thats just my opinion.

So calm down, thx for a really nice evening and see ye soon ingame :)
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Silverwing
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by Silverwing »

First of all thank you for attending the quest and for all the constructive feedback. Bigger scaled quests are quite rare and so the whole GM team including me has limited experience them yet. I will try to add some points from my perspective so far.

The lead up:

The aim here sure was to attract attention. Each town had a different reaction to it. I personally enjoyed the scenes with the chars trying to investigate the red portals a lot, because this way I could include characters what are no fighters on a very early stage to the quest.

Sure there could have been a lot of other ways to generate a lead up but there were three big points speaking for this. First of all there was a lot of positive feedback on Mas and some players were asking for a longer Mas or a Mas like event. Second, the tool was available and a good option to do something 24/7 without the need of us GMs to work 24/7 for Illarion. Third, it was matching quite well to what I've done before with Zaras.

Thanks to the intense of the lead up players prepared in different ways for the main quest. I really enjoyed everything I did see about it from outstanding battle performance to save a town from undead hordes to all the effort what has been invested in 'forging' a weapon to fight Zaras.

The quest:

The whole beginning of the quest was quite hard for us to do. Slightly and me did a long discussion about what all could happen and our biggest fear was that the struggle between the player chars could make the group simply fight each other instead of the monsters. The wolf was quite a spontaneous idea and unfortunate a late one because I really wanted to have dinner before the quest started so I was in a little hurry with him. I tried to make people curious by only making him talk to a limited amount of people. I know it looks exclusive on the first look but usually people are more curious about things they don't get presented in the open.

It was really nice to see that all players made it to settle the conflict between them for the moment and work together as they stormed the gate. About the rocks I've to say I'm sorry. I missed to remove them before the quest and as the quest was already running I had 4 and more clients to take track off. I really missed the approaches of the players to remove them and was in a rush so things won't get slowed down. Everyone should have his or her great moment during quests so I did not intend to take it away from anyone, it just was my limit of multitasking.

I did give the information about the missing Nixie in some way to the people the Wolf has spoken before and hoped it would spread better. That's what made some people storm to the pond first. The hints were somewhat leading to the entrance of the dungeon. Next time I will think of a better way to prevent a split of the group.

About the wall of fire I have to say that the Galmarian's really surprised me. The wall was planned to prevent player chars to run over to the second part of the dungeon to soon. I'm happy that you had fun by clearing it with the buckets but honestly I planned this to be the reason for the Nixie what has been freed. As I arrived with her and saw the cleared path I really was surprised.

The whole confusion and separation was a choice from my side to a certain point. The alternative choices would have been an NPC or a Player-Char as a leader. The Nixie and the wolf were advisors/functional NPCs and did not really take the lead because the quest should be solved by the players and not by the NPCs leading them. A Player-Char chose as a leader by a higher power or something alike would only have lead to more bad blood, so it was not really an option. A political union to really chose a leader might have been an option but would have been another huge work-package after all the conflict between the realms. The last option is something the players could have worked on after it was quite clear that Zaras was a common foe of all towns.

Lets go on with the dragon. Anyone who did read the description of the throne could see that it was not 'that small'. I used the descriptions given by the dungeon. He was sitting there and waiting for someone to talk with him. The one brave enough to talk to him first was going to be the one getting his attention. Why? A conversation becomes easier when you have a limited amount of people to talk to, the quest already was lasting 2 hours and any discussion with 30 people would have lead to 90 opinions. After a looooong moment of silence and Djironnyma even sitting down on one of the rare chairs in the room he got up and was finally the first one brave enough to address the dragon. Ancient was sure not the most inclusive language but at least the PO tried to include everyone by sticking to English and being aware of everyone OOCly being able to read the conversation.
The tools what have been presented were already known to me from the preparatory work including masses, rituals and so on. I did not know of any other plans but probably I simply should write a note in the next "Lead up quests" that anyone can come up with ideas. There is a GM group on the forum and we are on IRC. Things are way easier to react on when we know of them before the big quests. Including spontaneous things when a GM is playing an NPC and taking care of other things is hard to do, not impossible but really hard to do.
About the choices made for the roles for the big final I have to say that the dragon role was planned to be the reward for the one speaking first. What to say about the sword? I did give it to someone who is not a member of the so called "Steam Alliance" or a noble, chancellor or something alike. All the Dragon did 'enforce' as a 'leader' were these two choices and then he helped to work out the half finished plan what already has been prepared. Maybe some closer instructions should have been made but I hoped there were enough.
A personal note from my side here. I was considering of making the player eat one of class-clowns who were first too afraid to talk to him and later on only fooling around. I'm not addressing anyone just discussing the situation but after I had to pick up some entrails to not have the Dragon stand on them I really was wondering where the respect for this mighty creature has gone?

Again the potential 'leading NPC' was 'removed' to make room for the players. Djironnyma couldn't do much more than 'ROAAAAR!' and there was a lot of room for someone to show leadership. The troops stormed off and soon met some strange Skeleton-Dragon who did not take damage from normal weapons and was a "Someone" in the area where Zaras should be. In fact it was the only Black Skeleton-Dragon down there. There was a warning that most people will be needed to fight off his hordes and then he called them. Unfortunate the spawning area was a little confined. It were not 50 dragons in fact but 10 and after the number of dragons already slain during the quest looked to be a reasonable number. The confinement and the flames had more impact than planned. But that's the risk when working with new monsters and a script what just got changed a bunch of days before.



So I'm sorry for anyone who felt ignored during the quest by the NPCs or because of some interactions I have missed. I will try to do better next time. But so far I hoped anyone participating at least had a little fun during the quest.
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by Annabeth »

Silverwing wrote: The aim here sure was to attract attention. Each town had a different reaction to it. I personally enjoyed the scenes with the chars trying to investigate the red portals a lot, because this way I could include characters what are no fighters on a very early stage to the quest.
This was by far my favorite part. I do wish it had lasted longer though, as thoroughly enjoyed it and I had personally planned to have a organized charge to destroy the red portals be made the first time they appeared in the Cadomyr desert. I posted something that hinted at it in character, though in retrospect I probably shouldn't have assumed it'd be around for a few days and tried to message you about my idea instead.
Silverwing wrote: The whole beginning of the quest was quite hard for us to do. Slightly and me did a long discussion about what all could happen and our biggest fear was that the struggle between the player chars could make the group simply fight each other instead of the monsters. The wolf was quite a spontaneous idea and unfortunate a late one because I really wanted to have dinner before the quest started so I was in a little hurry with him. I tried to make people curious by only making him talk to a limited amount of people. I know it looks exclusive on the first look but usually people are more curious about things they don't get presented in the open.
While it did peak my curiosity, it also made it incredibly bewildering for both me and my character to know what to do or where to go as there weren't all that many descriptions given about what was going on as could've been wished for. A well thought out way to let everyone in on what is actually going on with the quest, hinting at where to go or what to do with descriptions or hints, can make even the daftest quest good, not to mention a quest with a seemingly well thought out plot like this one.
Silverwing wrote: It was really nice to see that all players made it to settle the conflict between them for the moment and work together as they stormed the gate. About the rocks I've to say I'm sorry. I missed to remove them before the quest and as the quest was already running I had 4 and more clients to take track off. I really missed the approaches of the players to remove them and was in a rush so things won't get slowed down. Everyone should have his or her great moment during quests so I did not intend to take it away from anyone, it just was my limit of multitasking.
As I mentioned in previous posts, a personal opinion of mine is that quests is the best times to have the characters who aren't in spotlight positions where they host events or are made marshalls of armies, get their own turn in the spotlight. Nevermind removing the stones beforehand, let them stay and add some more! Let the characters get involved. Of course, I know this is asking a lot and would require a lot of planning and maybe even the help of more GMs to run smoothly and fast enough, but I'm just trying to give constructive feedback this time around on what I'd love to see in a quest.
Silverwing wrote: I did give the information about the missing Nixie in some way to the people the Wolf has spoken before and hoped it would spread better. That's what made some people storm to the pond first. The hints were somewhat leading to the entrance of the dungeon. Next time I will think of a better way to prevent a split of the group.
I don't think this information came across too well at all. My character was clueless to it, as were many others I noticed went to the water as well. They were only following the few people who did realize what they had to do with the fairy, again personally fueling at least my suspicion of this being planned beforehand with those select people as they always seemed to know what to do.
Silverwing wrote: About the wall of fire I have to say that the Galmarian's really surprised me. The wall was planned to prevent player chars to run over to the second part of the dungeon to soon. I'm happy that you had fun by clearing it with the buckets but honestly I planned this to be the reason for the Nixie what has been freed. As I arrived with her and saw the cleared path I really was surprised.
The kind of behavior I think should be encouraged in future quests.
Silverwing wrote: Lets go on with the dragon. Anyone who did read the description of the throne could see that it was not 'that small'. I used the descriptions given by the dungeon. He was sitting there and waiting for someone to talk with him. The one brave enough to talk to him first was going to be the one getting his attention. Why? A conversation becomes easier when you have a limited amount of people to talk to, the quest already was lasting 2 hours and any discussion with 30 people would have lead to 90 opinions. After a looooong moment of silence and Djironnyma even sitting down on one of the rare chairs in the room he got up and was finally the first one brave enough to address the dragon. Ancient was sure not the most inclusive language but at least the PO tried to include everyone by sticking to English and being aware of everyone OOCly being able to read the conversation.
I think what most players expected here was a sign from the GM whether or not the dragon was even friendly, not wanting to make assumptions since it was a "someone" and not a mob. Seeing how we had killed several dragons to reach that point, it would've been just as logical for us to attack it while we were at it. And, as you mentioned, you GMs often juggle 4 or more clients. I for one assumed you just took long to write something with the dragon because of that.
Something like an emote of the dragon looking around for someone brave enough to speak would probably have cleared it up right away, but Djironnyma stepping forth like that out of nowhere leads to fuel at least my suspicion towards this already being a planned deal between you and Djironnyma for him to do that.
Silverwing wrote: Maybe some closer instructions should have been made but I hoped there were enough.
I think there definitely could have been more detailed ones, as while I for one thought I had understood them, it turns out I hadn't. Though it was all in general very confusing due to lacking a lot of context only the people the wolf spoke to had.
Silverwing wrote: There was a warning that most people will be needed to fight off his hordes and then he called them. Unfortunate the spawning area was a little confined. It were not 50 dragons in fact but 10 and after the number of dragons already slain during the quest looked to be a reasonable number
I guess it just seemed like 50 since I was unfortunate enough to pretty much get caught in the middle of it. Saw no warning, though, personally.
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GolfLima
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by GolfLima »

Sorry, i know it is a lot of work and it is only for a small group of players, but can someone give a summary of the discussion in german.
I've only had time to skim through the articles and it would be very nice if i could read a summary in german.
Thanks in advance.


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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by Ranwyln »

Püh, also mal schaun, Ich versuch es kurz zusammenzufassen: Im Groben gehts drum, dass das Event um Zaras (also alles was mit dem Drachen zusammenhängt) echt gut war, also nicht nur gestern sondern auch die ganzen Dinge im Vorfeld.

Aber es wirkte im Laufe des Events gestern wohl auf einige so, dass Informationen die für den Ablauf wichtig waren nur bei einigen wenigen Spielern landeten (Ein Wolf der entscheidende Tipps gab redete nur mit ein paar "Auserwählten"), die dann auch wussten wo es lang geht, während der Rest recht Planlos und desorientiert da stand.

Dazu kam, dass die Träger wohl einige Artefakte in den letzten Monaten hergestellt hatten um Zaras zu besiegen, was aber den anderen Parteien (bzw. den Galmairianern) nicht bekannt war und es so ein "Gschmäckle" gab als sie auf einmal Artefakte auspackten die wirkten als ob sie zu dem Event fest eingeplant gehörten.

Ebenso waren gestern 30 Spieler/innen anwesend wodurch einige Vorschläge die aus der Masse kamen untergingen, wöhrend andere so wirkten als ob sie immer gehört werden.


Im Verlaufe des Events hat sich die Gruppe ausversehen gesplittet, und so kam es das einige Spieler den Strang des Events verfolgen konnten (irgend ne Nixe ect., ich war bei den anderen)
während die anderen sich durch ne Feuerwand die sie eigendlich hindern sollte mit nen paar Eimern Wasser durchschütten konnte und so den anderen "etwas" voraus war (ohne den eigentlichen Verlauf des Events mitzubekommen).

Bei dem ersten kleineren Finale (die Begegnung mit nem Großen Roten Drachen (freundlich gesinnt), war es dann so das erst keiner so recht wusste was zu tun ist und so hat dann Djironyma die Initiative ergriffen und sich mit dem Drachen unterhalten. Dies in Anc (glaub das steht für Ancient ?), welches zwar für alle ooc lesbar war, aber halt für nen Großteil der Spielerschaft ingame nicht verständlich. Dies führte dann zu einigem Unmut (und wirkte auch so als ob es vorher geplant war, was ja mittlerweile wohl geklärt ist).

Ja und dann bin ich mit Ranwyln abgezwitschert da ich ins Bett musste.

Ums nochmal etwas einzudampfen: Diskussion über bzw. ob GM Favorisierung bestimmer Spieler, Spielergruppen stattgefunden hat.
Das Leute die eh schon eher "Ihre fünf Minuten Ruhm haben" dies auch in Events haben müssen oder ob man da nicht "jede(N)" mal zum Zuge lassen kommen könnte.

P.S. Ich glaube einigen Spielern, so auch mir ist nicht bewusst, dass sie Artefakte erstellen dürfen, wissen nicht inwiefern Events einem "festen" Handlungsstrang folgen und wollen diesen nicht stören und halten sich deswegen eher zurück, während andere dies halt stärker wissen, bzw. in Anpruch nehmen.

P.S. in English: Short summary of the stuff talked over before and a small addition from my side: I think most players dont know that they can create Artifacts or how to do stuff like that, and they dont know how strict the plot of an event is, so they dont want to disturb it and keep more in the background.

Ich hoff ich hab nix vergessen, Gute Nacht!
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by Azure Lynch »

Hey I loved it even at the point where I got lost couldn't find anyone and ran an hide cause inhad to log out cause it was time to get my son supper and ready for bed. So azure just felt abandoned and when I logged back in I faught my way back out the dungeon and made it out side when poof a wolf hits me and I stumble back and die. It was fun. Azure shining moment for me was when some shouted for the glory of the mother. And he shouted for the glory of me. Was expecting looks and words but alass everyone was focused on the fight. Lol love the looks of the dragons. Way to go team.
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by Lia »

Dieses Bevorzugen von gewissen Leuten oder Gruppen kommt mir bekannt vor. Auch ich hatte oft das Gefühl, das einige Wenige "Auserwählte" immer irgendwas erreichen, während Andere außenvor gelassen werden. Keine Chance haben auch mal Im Mittelpunkt zu stehen, ganz gleich in welcher Rollen. Und das hatte ich nicht direkt bei dem Event jetzt, sondern allgemein.


Was die Grüppchenbildung von deutschen und englischen Spielern angeht, ist das verständlich. Aber zu sagen das es nur die deutschsprachigen wären die Andere ausschließen ist falsch.
Im Gegenteil. Ich erlebe es oft das viele deutschsprachigen in englisch wechseln sobald ein englischsprachiger Anwesend ist.
Als deutschsprachiger erlebe ich es oft das man ausgeschlossen wird, wenn man kaum oder nur sehr schlecht englisch spricht. Viele haben gar nicht die Geduld dafür. Oder versuchen etwas entspannter an eine Situation zu gehen.
Da gerade durch die verschiedenen Sprachen, auch schnell mal Missverständnisse entstehen können.



This Prefer of certain people or groups sounds familiar. Also, I often had the feeling that reach a few people "chosen " always something , while others are left out . No chance have time to be at the center , whatever the role . And I had not directly at the event now , but in general .



As for the small group formation of German or English players , that's understandable . But to say that it would be the only German exclude others is wrong .
On the contrary. I experience it often , that change many German-speaking players in English as soon as an English player is present . As a German- speaking , I experience it often that one is excluded , if one speaks only very bad English . Many do not even have the patience for it .
Or try a little more relaxed to go to a situation .
Since going through the different languages ​​, quickly misunderstandings sometimes .
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by GolfLima »

1) Großen Dank an Ranwyln!
2) ich habe wohl mal im Forum gehört das im Prinzip Jeder außergewöhnliche Dinge herstellen kann - habe aber leider keine Rahmenbedingungen, Anforderungen, Regeln o.ä. dazu gefunden - LEIDER
3) :arrow: wäre vielleicht ganz gut wenn offiziell zu Punkt 2 etwas veröffentlicht werden würde

1) big thanks to Ranwyln
2) some month ago i have heared that "EVERYBODY is able" to make "Special things" but i never found something about rules, conditions, requirements about this in the Forum or elsewhere - sadly
3) :arrow: may be an official can post something about point 2


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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by Djironnyma »

GolfLima wrote: 2) some month ago i have heared that "EVERYBODY is able" to make "Special things" but i never found something about rules, conditions, requirements about this in the Forum or elsewhere - sadly
3) :arrow: may be an official can post something about point 2
http://illarion.org/illarion/us_rules.php#world

This is the only relevant rule in that case. If you want do somethink, no matter what, and cant do it with the engine, ask a GM. As a general orientation: as more players are ivolved in whatever you make, as more you "pay"/give/do for it, as more likly it is that it will be allowed.
GolfLima wrote: 2) ich habe wohl mal im Forum gehört das im Prinzip Jeder außergewöhnliche Dinge herstellen kann - habe aber leider keine Rahmenbedingungen, Anforderungen, Regeln o.ä. dazu gefunden - LEIDER
3) :arrow: wäre vielleicht ganz gut wenn offiziell zu Punkt 2 etwas veröffentlicht werden würde
http://illarion.org/illarion/de_rules.php#world

Dies ist die einzig relevante Regel in diesem Fall. Wenn du etwas, ganz egal was, darstellen willst, das von Spielmechanismen nicht unterstützt wird, frage ein GM. Als einen allgemeine Orientierung gillt: Je mehr Spieler involviert sind in was auch immer du vor hast und je mehr du dafür "bezahlst"/hergibst/tust, umso wahrscheinlicher wird es genehmigt/gelingen.
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by CJK »

I, unfortunately, wasn't able to attend this event because of a scheduling conflict. However, I'd like to make some small notes based on what I've read here and elsewhere (mostly here, because the flames elsewhere put the whole cave to shame):

1) Players being able to make special equipment to do stuff is awesome. That's the kind of player leadership that I'm always trying to advocate. Love it. But I can totally understand why some would feel that they were excluded by this. I think this is a situation where more ooc information = better, almost unconditionally. Items being permissible/impermissible by the GMs is a totally ooc thing. Perhaps even a thread in this forum should be made when this kind of event is going on, to give people ideas of how they can be involved?

2) I really appreciate PO Dji's conscious effort to NOT be the star of the show by talking to the dragon. Based on that log he posted, it's clear how painfully awkward the whole thing must have felt as everybody blinked at each other. However, I also don't see anything at all from the dragon in that log. Given the context, I'd just be waiting for it to say something first. Especially because, from what I recall, the GM chars in quests almost always initiate any interaction. Not sure I remember ever seeing that sort of thing where the GM is just waiting for the players to initiate. Seems like a sort of thing which has an "actionable" solution.


Anyway, thanks to all for how much work went into this! I know Evie did a lot to make the map a while back, and it sounds like the area itself was well received. And an endlessly big thanks to Silverwing, slightly, and the others who helped out behind the scenes to make this whole event possible. You're all great.
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by GolfLima »

ltgmkay wrote:1) Players being able to make special equipment to do stuff is awesome. That's the kind of player leadership that I'm always trying to advocate. Love it. But I can totally understand why some would feel that they were excluded by this. I think this is a situation where more ooc information = better, almost unconditionally. Items being permissible/impermissible by the GMs is a totally ooc thing. Perhaps even a thread in this forum should be made when this kind of event is going on, to give people ideas of how they can be involved?
:arrow: thanks // danke
Djironnyma wrote:http://illarion.org/illarion/us_rules.php#world

This is the only relevant rule in that case. If you want do somethink, no matter what, and cant do it with the engine, ask a GM. As a general orientation: as more players are ivolved in whatever you make, as more you "pay"/give/do for it, as more likly it is that it will be allowed.
:arrow: seems i´m to stupid / brainless to do something like that, sorry for my inability
Djironnyma wrote:http://illarion.org/illarion/de_rules.php#world

Dies ist die einzig relevante Regel in diesem Fall. Wenn du etwas, ganz egal was, darstellen willst, das von Spielmechanismen nicht unterstützt wird, frage ein GM. Als einen allgemeine Orientierung gillt: Je mehr Spieler involviert sind in was auch immer du vor hast und je mehr du dafür "bezahlst"/hergibst/tust, umso wahrscheinlicher wird es genehmigt/gelingen.
:arrow: scheint als wäre ich nicht fähig genug so etwas zu tun, entschuldigt meine Unfähigkeit.
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by Ranwyln »

Ich dachte bei der OOC Information eher an etwas in Richtung Beispiele, z.b. Schwert der Fünfe ect., was für "Fähigkeiten" so ne Waffe/Schmuckstück/Hose/was auch immer in RP haben darf (da ja vieles Spieltechnisch, vor allem ohne Magie) nicht umsetzbar ist, z.b. Drachentöter Axt (RP Fähigkeit, macht bös aua an Drachen), das hier keiner die Eierlegende Wollmilchsau haben darf ist auch klar, aber halbwegs klare Grenzen wären fein, nicht, dass man sich nen Haufen Arbeit macht was zu planen und dann heißts nur ist Overpowered ect. Vor allem bei Dingen wo auch die "Götter" nen Einfluss haben ist es für Spieler glaub recht schwierig was zu machen, da klar sein müsste ok jeder kann nen Gesegnetes Schwert von XY haben, oder nur in zusammenarbeit mit Priestern oder nur in dem man ständig opfert ect. ect.

Kurz und knapp, nen etwas genauerer Leitfaden als alles was Spieltechnisch machbar ist, kannste machen wenn du genug resourcen/spieler ect findest, die dich unterstützen. Denn ohne halbewegs klare Regeln wird es immer nen Beigeschmack haben wenn Items vor allem Quest Entscheidende Items in der Hand von Spielern auftauchen ohne das für alle vorher klar ersichtlich war wo kommt das nu her.


I thought of more ooc information with examples bout "artifacts" that can be made by players, which abilities would be allowed on such items especially in roleplay matters (blessed by gods, good against monster type xy (Dragonslayer, Pigcarver, whatever). No one will be allowed to have the holy overpowered onehit killer weapon thats clear but some clear rules with the restricitions would be fine, or it will always have the taste of favorism.

In short to avoid the problem of favorism we would need something like clear rules what is possible. And questdeciding items should only be given out in events that are for all attendable, so everyone know ah that item comes from there.
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by Djironnyma »

Jedes besondere Item wird immer von den Spielleitern einzelnd abgewogen. Hierbei detailiertere Regeln als die bereits zitierte zu verfassen ist sehr kompliziert und nur sehr begrenzt praktikabel. In die Fragestellung ob eine Anfrage auf ein Spezialitem genehmigt wird fließen viele Punkte mit ein. Hier eine Auswahl die als orientierung dienen kann, auf die man sich aber im Zweifelsfall nicht berufen kann. Wie gesagt ist jedes Item eine Einzelfallenscheidung des GM-Teams (=gemeinsam, sowas genehmigt nie ein einzelner GM):
  • Welchen Mehrwert bringt das Item für das Spiel. Ein Item dessen Erschaffung und Verwendung viele Spieler mit einbezieht / Spielspaß produziert (am ehesten in Form von Events) wird eher genehmigt als ein Item das jetzt nur ein oder zwei Spielern mehr Spielspaß bringt.
  • Passt das Item zum Setting / zur Hintergrundwelt von Illarion. - Keine Lasergewehre oder Ottomotoren ;)
  • Passt die Erschaffung des Items zu den Fähigkeiten des / der Charaktere die es schaffen. - Ein Magier wird keine kunstvolle Verzierung schnitzen, ein Goldschmied kein mystisches Leuchten im Edelstein erzeugen.
  • Passen die "Kosten" / Produktiosaufwand zum Mehrwert des Items. Wer besondere Effekte auf seinen items möchte, wird eher Erfolg haben wenn er dafür viele wertvolel Dinge wie Reine Elemente, magische Edelsteine, Seltende Kräuter etc. hergibt und die Erschaffung lange zeit ggf. mehrere Events braucht.
  • Wie gut ist die Vorbereitung/Planung? GMs haben nur ein begrenztes Zeitfenster. Es ist unwahrscheinlich, dass die GMs eine anfrage Positiv beantworten die heist: "Ich möchte das Schwet von Dooom und zahle dafür 200gold! Macht das mal!". Eine genaue Aufschlüßelung was man will/warum man es braucht, wie es ablaufen soll/ wer mit einbezogen wird, was man dafür hergibt etc. sollte vorliegen. Das schliest sowohl die IG als auch OOC planung mitein. Es ist am besten wenn die GMs mit der gesamten Planung und Eventabwicklung nicht zutun haben (müssen) sondern "nur" genehmiegen und ggf das Item erstellen müssen. Das bedeutet auch das der Spieler die notwendige Itembeschreibung mit übersetzung am besten vorbereitet.
Abschließend sei gesagt das eine Genehmigung durch die GMs, dass man das Item Erschaffen kann nicht zwingend bedeutet, dass die Erschaffung auch gelingt. GMs genehmiegen den Versuch und signalisieren damit eine Grundsätzliche Zustimmung. Aber gerade wenn es um Magische Rituale/ göttliches Wirken/alchimisitsche Experimente geht, können immer noch viele Dinge schief laufen und die Erschaffung scheitern.


//I Explained some points about what influence the decissions of the GM- team to allowe or refuse the creation of a special item. i will translate later this day.
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GolfLima
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Re: Dragons Roar

Post by GolfLima »

* a lot of new Information about "Special things" and the production of them

* eine Menge neuer Informationen über die "speziellen Dinge" und ihre Erschaffung
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