Current Game Thoughts

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Sammy Goldlieb
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Re: What are you thinking right now?

Post by Sammy Goldlieb »

Nitram wrote:
I will not give up on Illarion. What about you?

Nitram
Same here! I wont give Illa up!
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Estralis Seborian
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

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Alytys Lamar
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Alytys Lamar »

with the little time I have I will stay, too :!:
1d20
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by 1d20 »

At times I feel that having three towns is what turns me off playing. We're hitting peaks of 6 players and they're spread out over three main towns. That makes little sense to me.
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Sammy Goldlieb
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Sammy Goldlieb »

There Comes the through, upon Login in to give something like this: 5 other Players are online, 2 in Cadoymr, 1 in Galmair, 2 in the wilderness, through to wilderness Counts everything outside the towns
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nathi
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by nathi »

was glaubt ihr,
was hier los wäre,
wenn mehr wüssten,
was hier los ist?
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Drathe
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Drathe »

Long live Illarion, as I've always said (what ever form it takes). The work, time, energy and dedication to this game/project is phenomenal, you lot are awesome.


-*Ignorant misinformed old player opinion warning*-

No rose tinted glasses are worn but I do pop in and play but it just doesn't hold me for all the reasons that have already been said. There are other games that do what Illa does now better, but there are none that come close to what Illa did before (as us lost rp souls are finding). Personally I wish the energy and direction had been spent towards really making the previous version of the game shine. I.E fix the broken ends, simplify attributes, tweak the stats, focus and set the lore, tidy up the map, improve client and graphics and polish it up to make it the sensible sized sandpit of creativity it was. Keep everyone together. (Sure some of that has been done on the VBU, but the VBU is a different game). I'm talking sanding smooth the rough, not chiseling out the rock again. If that had been done the game frame work and content would have been set and everything working, stable and balanced by now, leaving dev time to play and add new RP tools/devices for players to RP with. I think the big issue that is always over looked is that Illa is a niche game small player base, quality over quantity of players. It will never have the feature and player pull of generic RPGs despite its feature path seeming to take it that way. This thought and direction has never seemed dev/staff popular but I truly feel its where the game should have gone. But then I guess the drive is more players more funding to keep the server/game alive?

As always, forever Illaion much love to you all.
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Jupiter
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Jupiter »

Drathe wrote:But then I guess the drive is more players more funding to keep the server/game alive?
No. Illarion does not earn one single cent. All the costs are paid by donations and the membership fees of the members of the society.
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Annabeth »

Drathe wrote:There are other games that do what Illa does now better
Care to share the names of these games? I'd like to have a look at them.
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rakust dorenstkzul
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by rakust dorenstkzul »

Annabeth wrote:
Drathe wrote:There are other games that do what Illa does now better
Care to share the names of these games? I'd like to have a look at them.
Runescape
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Jupiter
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Jupiter »

I am a bit confused. How are we actually supposed to improve roleplay? A better engine is certainly nothing which prevents this. So I guess the problem is something else. However, I still struggle to really understand it. That there is a problem is obviosu. But I am no sure if the source has really been identified.
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by 1d20 »

There is no role play without people. If you can't find someone to Rolepay with, you can't role play. It's pretty simple. Currently, there are very little players. One of the main causes is that we'll get in game, not find anyone to play with and log out. The reason we don't find anyone to play with is that the world is too big for its player base. It may be an entirely crazy idea due to the amount of work you've put in the world, but shut down two of the three towns. Leave the wilderness. Lots of places to explore and go to is great, but merge the activity in a single town, à la Trollsbane. You can not afford to have a world with three main towns when there aren't enough players to even populate one. It's ridiculous. I know this will be ignored and you'll refuse to turn the your hard work on two of these towns to nothing, but I do feel like it's the right solution. Once you've got more players, then expand your world by adding more towns.
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Mephistopheles »

Drathe wrote:Long live Illarion, as I've always said (what ever form it takes). The work, time, energy and dedication to this game/project is phenomenal, you lot are awesome.


-*Ignorant misinformed old player opinion warning*-

No rose tinted glasses are worn but I do pop in and play but it just doesn't hold me for all the reasons that have already been said. There are other games that do what Illa does now better, but there are none that come close to what Illa did before (as us lost rp souls are finding). Personally I wish the energy and direction had been spent towards really making the previous version of the game shine. I.E fix the broken ends, simplify attributes, tweak the stats, focus and set the lore, tidy up the map, improve client and graphics and polish it up to make it the sensible sized sandpit of creativity it was. Keep everyone together. (Sure some of that has been done on the VBU, but the VBU is a different game). I'm talking sanding smooth the rough, not chiseling out the rock again. If that had been done the game frame work and content would have been set and everything working, stable and balanced by now, leaving dev time to play and add new RP tools/devices for players to RP with. I think the big issue that is always over looked is that Illa is a niche game small player base, quality over quantity of players. It will never have the feature and player pull of generic RPGs despite its feature path seeming to take it that way. This thought and direction has never seemed dev/staff popular but I truly feel its where the game should have gone. But then I guess the drive is more players more funding to keep the server/game alive?

As always, forever Illaion much love to you all.
To some extent I've been saying the same thing, we should not focus on other games so much as "what made Illarion unique before, why are our beloved long time players saying this is a different game?" Here is your answer, Runescape, Tibia, WoW, Neverwinter, these are all just some MMORPGs its the same pvp, dungeon running, stupid cheesy quest BS that we don't want to see in Illarion. Illarion was a unique gem, it started turning into a wannabe "just another MMO" so now we must kill that before it spreads.
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Katharina Brightrim
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Katharina Brightrim »

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Last edited by Katharina Brightrim on Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Evie
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Evie »

I know something I used to do prevbu that is no longer an option. Say I lived in Greensbriar, but the population and majority of people where in trollsbane. There was no restrictions on hanging around trollsbane and working using the tools so that you are at the central location ,workshop, when people do show up to rp. In trolls bane you could cook, smith, woodwork, tailor all around the market where people could find you quickly. I think this is a key point of why it became a central hub of our old world. People had a place to go and be if they wanted to rp. People knew where to look.

If the online list said trollsbane characters weren't on but Vanima had a lot online.. I could go to Vanima and hang about also working and doing things til someone would show up to that central location. Now if you go to another town trying to catch rp.. you cant really do anything. Trade with npcs, stand around.. maybe gather items that you will have to move to process.. in the end you get bored so people either don't port and look or give up and leave. This is just my two cents for what its worth.
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Jupiter
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Jupiter »

Evie wrote:People had a place to go and be if they wanted to rp. People knew where to look.
That's why travelling to the Necktie and back to your hometown is no free! Be cool and start a new trend by using it :P
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Fooser »

Katharina Ross wrote:

Destroy Galmair
Seems like a pretty good idea.
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Alytys Lamar
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Alytys Lamar »

Jupiter wrote:
Evie wrote:People had a place to go and be if they wanted to rp. People knew where to look.
That's why travelling to the Necktie and back to your hometown is no free! Be cool and start a new trend by using it :P
That's a decision in the right way - lets concentrate players for RP :)
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Velisai
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Velisai »

Jupiter wrote:
Evie wrote:People had a place to go and be if they wanted to rp. People knew where to look.
That's why travelling to the Necktie and back to your hometown is no free! Be cool and start a new trend by using it :P
It won't ever become a trend and here's why:
1. Like Evie already wrote in her post, most of which you chose to disregard, there is nothing to do in the Necktie to pass the time until somebody shows up there.
2. Why should every char constantly hang around the Necktie or another town's tavern for that matter, when there is a perfectly fine and equally empty one in their hometown? Taverns are not the ideal place to meet up. That should be obvious from all the years the Fluffy Sheep has been empty, unless a group walks in there for the purpose of having a private chat or a party. The place to find people you might enjoy a drink with has always been the depot at the workshop for as long as I've been here and it was a perfect spot for that purpose. The only change between 5 years ago and now is that we have less players and 3 equally important market depots, instead of the one depot to ru.. eh go to if you wanted to meet people, craft, trade, gossip...

It was a very good decision to get rid of all the empty towns we had, but Troll's Bane, being in the center of the map and the default place for all newbies to arrive at and all kinds of people to welcome, was a very well working concept that should have been continued on the new map. In fact, most other RP focused games/servers i've ran across have a place like that and for a good reason. I understand that having 3 more or less equally important towns could be interesting with 600+ active players, but we barely have 60. It would have been a lot easier to let people build a new place when the numbers allow it, than to keep 3 towns alive in the hope that it will get better soonTM.

Also, to expand on Evie's point, crafting used to take a lot longer than it does now, which was actually a good thing. Every minute you spend in the workshop is one minute you are easy to find for other chars without them having to happen to take a stroll in the mine for no good ic reason. Now crafting is 95% resource gathering, which often takes you outside town and makes you a lot harder to find while you grind.
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Uhuru
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Uhuru »

To expand on Evie and Velisai's toughts...

"Crafting" is what people sit and do as they talk. It is natural and something that is just done. Sitting, cooking, and talking. Grinding grain and chatting. And so on... most people still in game are experts in what they do now and the times taken to produce something are very short. While this is nice, it doesn't promote much RP. Uhuru picks up her things to bake 30 strawberry cakes and 3 minutes later she is done. Nice, but she ends up doing a lot of running back and forth to the depot and not much "chewing of the fat" with anyone else around.

I'm not knocking the production times. It's just a change in game, one of many. Just noting it.
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Hew Keenaxe
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Hew Keenaxe »

Karl wrote:There is no role play without people. If you can't find someone to Rolepay with, you can't role play. It's pretty simple. Currently, there are very little players. One of the main causes is that we'll get in game, not find anyone to play with and log out. The reason we don't find anyone to play with is that the world is too big for its player base. It may be an entirely crazy idea due to the amount of work you've put in the world, but shut down two of the three towns. Leave the wilderness. Lots of places to explore and go to is great, but merge the activity in a single town, à la Trollsbane. You can not afford to have a world with three main towns when there aren't enough players to even populate one. It's ridiculous. I know this will be ignored and you'll refuse to turn the your hard work on two of these towns to nothing, but I do feel like it's the right solution. Once you've got more players, then expand your world by adding more towns.
I absolutely agree. One town with player run government + Necktie for those that don't want to be part of the town or have been exiled. Sure some will feel upset at first if their town isn't chosen but we have to get the player base closer together. I would choose Galmair because of its location to Necktie but with transporters this doesn't matter to much. Cadomyr and Galmair are preferable in my view because of their more traditional town layout. Runewick has to many level changes and portals, but no matter which town is chosen, one town would be better than three.
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Hew Keenaxe
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Hew Keenaxe »

Uhuru wrote:To expand on Evie and Velisai's toughts...

"Crafting" is what people sit and do as they talk. It is natural and something that is just done. Sitting, cooking, and talking. Grinding grain and chatting. And so on... most people still in game are experts in what they do now and the times taken to produce something are very short. While this is nice, it doesn't promote much RP. Uhuru picks up her things to bake 30 strawberry cakes and 3 minutes later she is done. Nice, but she ends up doing a lot of running back and forth to the depot and not much "chewing of the fat" with anyone else around.

I'm not knocking the production times. It's just a change in game, one of many. Just noting it.
Also being able to rest when skill gain capped was a reason for people to gather around a camp fire. Now the only way to free up the cap is by doing something else, which often means GO do something, instead of waiting around a common area. I know this was abused before, people hiding out. Still rest time should count some, even if less than action would.
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Alytys Lamar
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Alytys Lamar »

I still think to remove the fee to transport to the Hemptie was a decision in the right direction.

1.) it gives new players the possibility to jump between the Inn and the town - without wasting money.
2.) The current experienced players should just use it - and try !!
If everyone refuses to do it and pull a face it can't work. Why not stand together and try it out ?

Proposal to GM's and players:

Building more quests around the Inn Area


( but as I several times stated - I hate grinding in Illarion - I am here for RP. So maybe I am wrong if the most of the players are grinders :/ )
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Evie
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Evie »

I wasn't look at the crafting as grinding as more as something to do til the rp showed up. I hate to just leave my character standing around doing nothing and this po has no patience :P. So i like something to do til someone shows, or did I am trying to adapt!
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Jen
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Jen »

It's pretty sad but all the advances that have been made have been covered up by the dysfunctional roleplay framework that has been set-up after the VBU. Whenever a GM leader is on that town has 10-15 players and everyone else has 1-2. When the GM leaves every town is back to 1-2. People log on because something might actually happen because the GM leader is there. In old Illarion something could happen at any moment regardless of which GM's were hanging around. The NPC leaders have been a revolving door of GMs. There have been four or five players playing the same character. Or one player playing three different characters (as Flux had to do multiple times). We pride ourselves as a roleplay enforced game and this is the foundation of the game? Seriously? Does an NPC leader even remember a conversation that happened a month ago? Who knows. If no one else cares why should I? There's very little lore/background to any of these people/locations. Even guard duty has been outsourced to NPCs. Having issues? Set up the ban script and forget about it. You only have to be vigilant during Mas now, a whole 1 day over 4 months.

In the new Illarion we are guests in someone else's house. In the old Illarion we owned the house.
I'm signing what Fooser said.

We all know that Trolls Bane was incredibly chaotic and changed rulership every other day, but no one can argue that it was immense fun. While I understand why the GMs want NPC controlled cities, the way it is currently done, creates stagnation:

Several times when addressing the issue, that there is no real conflict in the game, the reply I get is: Players need to create the conflict. Well yes. But then again, the NPC rulership does not give us the power to. I feel that on one hand the GMs are expecting us to take Illarions fate into our own hands, but at the same time we don't actually have the possibility to do so.

If the cities keep being NPC/GM-ruled, than it's the GMs responsibility to also create conflict and story between the cities. If that's not something that they can or want to do, then give the power back to the players. We will rise to the occasion :)


The fact that whenever a town leader is online, or a big quest is happening, the online player list jumps up to 20 or higher, is a good and a bad sign. At least this shows us, that there are still people out there wanting to play the game, who are just starving for something to happen. But they are still there at least and haven't yet given up! :)


Maybe the GMs might also want to consider putting a GM in place that does not have a tie to any of the cities, but whose sole responsibility it is to support the very few shady or evil characters that we have in the game. Someone to actually cause some havoc and action in the game.
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Alytys Lamar
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Re: What are you thinking right now?

Post by Alytys Lamar »

Alytys Lamar wrote:To say it in another sentence -

You did go through the streets of any town and something happens - the players made the stories, they filled a gem named Illarion with the stories and lived them.
I can only second again what Jen / Fooser / Nalz said !!!
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Velisai
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Velisai »

Jen wrote:...
Amen to that. 100% true. GMs are trying, but they are all just people like us regular players. They have real life to take care of and their creativity is not unlimited. More chaos means more freedom, diversity and excitement.

Alytys, personally I don't care about the travel cost reductions as that hasn't ever been an issue for me, but if it helps newbies or not very wealthy chars find somebody to RP with I'm all for this change. That doesn't mean however, that I'll praise this tiny step in the right direction as a solution to all of the RP related problems we have. Finding someone to RP with isn't even a new problem in Illa. It has just become worse, largely due to low player count combined with the scattering of characters over three towns. Additionally, there is the lack of conflict, lack of long term goals, aborted quests and many other things. I'm not trying to be all negative here or blame anyone for these problems, but pretending that all will be well if we only all start idling at the Necktie as we wait for RP, even if it is for free now, is not going to make things better in my opinion.

I've tried to explain why the Necktie is a terrible place to wait for RP. Lack of stuff to do while you wait, bad spot for trade, most chars don't go there regularly to check on stuff they stored in the depot cause they have no reason to store stuff there, etc. The most important issue with the Necktie as an RP hub however, which I didn't even think of the first time around, is that no newbies spawn there. New chars arrive at one of the towns and that is where they should be able to easily find another character.

Also, I'd like to add that improvements have been made in RP related parts of the game. The new skill system for example is absolutely brilliant. You can actually avoid countless hours of grinding if that isn't your thing, without slowing your skillgain down. Yes Hew, that means you can as well go and RP. Talking and emoting will restore your learning speed exactly as well as running around in circles. People are still not used to not worrying about this and think they have to do this or that to gain skill. It is really simple now. As long as you don't afk, you will gain skill at a pretty much constant rate. It doesn't matter whether you powergame 10 or 50 minutes of an hour spent in game. The only difficulty is to find the right monster to fight for warriors at the 90+ skill range.
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Hew Keenaxe
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Hew Keenaxe »

Velisai wrote:
Jen wrote:...
Also, I'd like to add that improvements have been made in RP related parts of the game. The new skill system for example is absolutely brilliant. You can actually avoid countless hours of grinding if that isn't your thing, without slowing your skillgain down. Yes Hew, that means you can as well go and RP. Talking and emoting will restore your learning speed exactly as well as running around in circles. People are still not used to not worrying about this and think they have to do this or that to gain skill. It is really simple now. As long as you don't afk, you will gain skill at a pretty much constant rate. It doesn't matter whether you powergame 10 or 50 minutes of an hour spent in game. The only difficulty is to find the right monster to fight for warriors at the 90+ skill range.
This is exactly where I disagree. If there isn't anyone around to talk to the only way to reduce the skill cap is to run around. Can't take any action that relates to a skill unless you are already maxed in it. So when I reach my gain for the time being, I have to run around. Most likely, aimlessly. This is not enjoyable. This will likely take me from where I might see someone else if I waited, unless I run in circles. So as has been suggested, going to Necktie and waiting, or like we used to in Trollsbane, wait at the fire pit or depot is not going to help. Some credit towards the skill cap should be given even for sitting idle. So if I choose to spend my down time waiting for RP but find none, it was not wasted time.
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Alytys Lamar
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Alytys Lamar »

Well - let see - there is ( in my opinion) a simple solution to find RP if players online who are willing to play.

Instead of showing only the membership of a town show the real place they are. To avoid revealing shady/evil characters just add the number of players.

Wilderness = 1
Galmair = 2
Cadomyr = 4
Hemptie = 3
Runewick = 1

Also I think Runewick shouldn't be a whole town - let it be a fortress or university ( like the magical academy we had in old Illa )
Do not kill me Dji for this :P cause I do not say close Runewick complete.
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Jen
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Re: Current Game Thoughts

Post by Jen »

I just thought that instead of just pointing out what's not working, it might be a good idea to also add some suggestions, how to make it work instead :D


NPC/GM Rulership:

1. I can't see us going back to Trolls Bane times and I don't think we should either, but if something doesn't work, we should try something else and see what sticks. Instead of removing NPC/GM rulership entirely, how about we at least take smaller steps into that direction and see what happens. First thing, I find, would be try and have the GMs and their NPC rulers step back a little and hand more responsibilities to the players: Officials (however they are going to be elected) with actual power to make decisions, without having run every single thing past the city leader.

1a.) The NPC leader should not be involved in every single minor event in the town. If there is a criminal, for example, he should be sentenced by a player with the appropriate position, not by the npc town leader.
1b.) Remove the NPC guards and get players to play guards again themselves. So what if the occasional monster runs into town? Let players work together to remove it. It's not like being sent to the cross has actually any negative effects other than damaging your equipment.
1c.) Cadomyr: Get rid of the "no outlaw allowed in town" script. If that's a thing, let players enforce it themselves instead of a script.
1d.) Let it be clear that however these characters were established into these positions (appointed by the town leader for example), they can still be removed/overthrown with appropriate actions.

2. GMs need to plot with each other.
I feel at the moment GMs are only looking after their own sheep and don't really care what's going on in the other cities. If you want conflict between the cities, you could slowly stir things into those directions. I'm not saying: Start a war. I'm saying: Get together and set small things into motion that might inspire players to start a war. Let them be suspicious of each other. The Queen is holding an audience? Great, Galmair, you have spies, don't you? Go and send one to the meeting and then let's see what the players make out of it. But it has to start with you guys, talking and conspiring with each other, rather than every city doing their own thing.

Just as an example: A long while ago the queen was bitching in on of her audiences about how Runewick did not participate in the Games. This is great stuff. Rumours spread and eventually that information even made it back to the Archmage himself and inspired a player (*cough* yes, it was me) to try and initiate a player quest/event so that the peace can be kept between the cities (which has not so far come to fruition, because Mas happened.). Minor things like this could really set off things in an interesting direction, if only you give us something to work with <3


So what about that weekly market:

Estralis mentioned this in a post a while ago, when we are discussing how to get players to meet up for RP. So why is there no weekly market yet? Zeph mentioned to me that there was something in planning, something with NPCs, and when I heard that, I immediately shook my head. Why are we overcomplicating things? Why do we need NPC merchants at an event that's meant to get players together and roleplay and trade? Big No-no!
All you GMs need to do is set up a weekly quest in the quest planner announcing the market times at the Neck Hemptie Inn. That's it. No need for decorations, no need for NPCs. The rest is up to the players to grab their stuff and go there and play with each other. Pretty, pretty, pretty please? *big puppy eyes*


And I just want to mention:
Of course we are all nostalgic about the old times (and while doing so we forget all the problems we used to have back then too, and all the OOC fights we used to get into),... but to say that Illarion isn't Illarion anymore, is nonsense. If it's not Illarion anymore, then that's because you are not ingame to make it just as awesome as it used to be back then.
Illarion is great, it was back then, and it is now. We might be struggling a little to get things running smoothly, but the quality of roleplay ingame has never been better. I've gotten to know so many new players since I started playing again and I love every single one of them to bits. I have no doubt that we will get over this dry spell if we experiment a little and if people keep going ingame to add their own unique flavour to it. This is still *our* Illarion, the one that we used to love, and still do.
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