Magic system thoughts...

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Post by Mr.Oldie » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:54 pm

Re: Magic system thoughts...

Power word kill is a single spell that can be either concentrated on single target or multi targeted via area of effect.
What Arcia describes here is a single traget one.

In illarion terms its like saying when badly wounded/ near death(depending on the HP) this spell would kill(or stumble) instantaneously instead of having to hit the target multiple times to properly empty the health bar.
He is also taking into account the regen and setting a limit at 123 HP(as an example i guess) to say that beyond this if PWK spell is used only mana would be lost without any effect on the opponent

This is a rather useful spell and can be used in illarion. or rather a version of it.
Finger of Death
This spell wont ever be used in Illarion hopefully. because it mostly would end up as a instantaeneous death (from full health from what i could gather :/) with very lil chance to survive. OR a very high damage which would allow the mage to beat down the opponent with other smaller spells. over powering either way.
The rest about the characters running and stuff.. well i dont understand at all :D i think he is describing PVP situations.

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Post by Velisai » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:14 am

Re: Magic system thoughts...

@Uhuru: That's from a system called Dungeons and Dragons where pretty much every spell has a random factor. Even direct damage spells like the classic fireball have a good chance of hitting a knight-type with full force, while a nimble rogue has a decent chance to dodge half the damage (or all at higher levels). That makes magic powerful, but never entirely reliable.

D'n'D magic derives its power from high versatility. Very few spells however can match the raw damage a similar level fighter char can dish out in the same time. Mages also have limited spell slots, so they have to strike a balance between stuff like Paralyze and damage spells. There are no potions to fill up a mana bar in the middle of combat and continue blasting the hell out of everything. To regain spells, you have to "rest" a good distance away from anything hostile or even in a real bed, depending on house rules.

The main argument which sparked this discussion anyway, was that mages are meant to be ridiculously powerful, which in D'n'D, they are not. Every character class there is designed to fulfill a certain role. The class that eats mages for breakfast is called monk. In Illa terms, the closest to that would be a char with extremely high magic resistance and weak, but very fast attacks.

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Post by Uhuru » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:44 pm

Re: Magic system thoughts...

Thank you PO Vel, I needed that.

So, does everyone see us as moving in a direction as trying to implement something similar to D&D? Is that why the discussion is turning in that direction?

Yes, in the past, Illa mages have been incredibly powerful, but... our warriors are freaking powerful too. I think they are even more powerful now. A true warrior character needs to be afraid of something, mages are that something, but what is a mage afraid of, and that there is the problem with old illa mages. They weren't afraid of anything. From what I am reading, some people would like to reign in that power by giving mages something to be afraid of, but what? Or who?

We need the trifecta... Warriors are afraid of mages... mages are afraid of... I dunno... lets say for the sake of argument... druids... druids are afraid of warriors...

My image of a druid: One with nature, uses the herbs and plants to build the bombs and such (mana bombs and explosive type), but can also use the written spells (if we go that route) if someone sells them to him. But, because of his link to nature, should be able to call on nature, like the elements or the animals. (If this is possible in some way.)

So, obviously, warriors wouldn't be too afraid of explosions, but mages would nearly float from them. Does this all make sense? (It's 4am, so could all be gibberish)

The trifecta: warriors/mages/druids: Go... debate

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Post by GolfLima » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:56 pm

Re: Magic system thoughts...

* at the moment there is NO use for Druids -> only use for Alchemists ....they making healing potions and sometimes bombs ....
:arrow: dont mix druids and alchemists and normally alchemy is the second craft of a charakter / warrior
* the only one who played a druid at the moment is Merung
* no one is afraid of a druid ... fro my point of view druids are the weakest char. in game
* druids are afraid of monsters / mages / warriors / animals .....

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Post by Evie » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Magic system thoughts...

Having a bad day so my rant...

Mages were not all powerful only really battemages were ((a true mage was an easy mark for a trained warrior)).. now mages are the weakest ingame sadly and it seems everyone would like to keep them that way. We have no use or purpose other than rp, which not knocking rp why I play the game. I do however like to hunt monsters as well which is sadly very frustrating. My mage only survives based on skills she learned pre vbu.. otherwise would be slime fodder. It just seems to me.. that everyone is so afriad of what a mage could be.. so they decide to punish the whole class. If we follow that logic.. a super strong warrior can go bad.. hey they have ingame.. so lets cut warrior damage as well since they might do something wrong.

Disclaimer: as aforementioned bad day.. sorry for the bxtching.

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Post by Uhuru » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:28 pm

Re: Magic system thoughts...

GolfLima wrote:* at the moment there is NO use for Druids -> only use for Alchemists ....they making healing potions and sometimes bombs ....
:arrow: dont mix druids and alchemists and normally alchemy is the second craft of a charakter / warrior
* the only one who played a druid at the moment is Merung
* no one is afraid of a druid ... fro my point of view druids are the weakest char. in game
* druids are afraid of monsters / mages / warriors / animals .....
That's my point... Merung would use his connection with nature more than any alchemy or potions. He would draw on nature as a druid, calling animals to his rescue somehow. If we can get this ingame. Bringing in all bears from the area to help him in battle say. See where I'm going with this?

So how this works in the scheme... warriors can fight off six bears (strong warriors), giving the druid an opportunity to flee, while against the mages they mage might have some difficulty and have to flee rather than the druid. The problem is how to set it up so the bears don't attack the druid, their supposed ally.

As to Evie's comment about strong warriors... technically, she is correct. Any PO can go bad in any character role and try to dominate. This is why we have GM's and CM's.

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Post by Jupiter » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:54 pm

Re: Magic system thoughts...

Uhuru wrote: Bringing in all bears from the area to help him in battle say. See where I'm going with this?
He would rather die than to fight, or even worse to make others fight for him ;) He's strange :P

There is a master plan called "Alchemy II". It will include various abilities. Despite it's name it can be seen as rather detached to the current alchemy system (of course, there need to be at least some connections). The idea is that we will have a set of abilities once can learn. But not all, just a limited amount. In the end, that leads to certain profiles (e.g. alchemist, druid, poisoner,...). Depending on what you want to play, you can decide. However, don't expect any of that to be done in a near future (I'm serious.). Anyway, I see no problems at all playing a druid currently.

And let us try not to get too far off topic. We are talking about the evil mages not the fine druids ;)

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Post by Evie » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:59 pm

Re: Magic system thoughts...

Jupiter wrote:We are talking about the evil mages not the fine druids ;)

*scowls at Jupiter*

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Post by Velisai » Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:25 pm

Re: Magic system thoughts...

I'd like to see a system balanced through attribute choice, rather than what D&D does with its class vs. class vs. class logic. Diversity and choice is what sets Illa apart from all the class and level based systems out there. An archer could have high constitution, while another could have high willpower for magic resistance instead of that. There could be mages, who rely on spells only for defense/buffs/utility and dishing out damage with weapons. We shouldn' limit Illa's possibilities by falling back into the character class scheme. Does the majority of mages have to be excellent brains with frail bodies? Do they all have to be able to learn all the spells? I know it is not so easy to balance a system like that, but it would sure be more fun to play.

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Post by GolfLima » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:10 pm

Re: Magic system thoughts...

:arrow: at the moment mages can try to learn how to life as a druid scholar :wink:

(( its a big change to old illarion / Gobaith :arrow: from the top to the end of the foad chain )) :shock:

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Post by themonk » Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:07 am

Re: Magic system thoughts...

I had to alter a lot of Gurks stats to help him survive in the new illa, kept some mage stats just incase though.

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