Moderator: Gamemasters
- why are there so few crafters and why are they all allrounders -GolfLima wrote:warum gibt es wohl so wenig Handwerker, und dann sind die auch noch Alleskönner
I proposed my idea of the specialization of character abilities as a possible solution to one of the many root causes of the all-rounder problem. This problem is what this whole thread is about. Before I posted, there was much discussion on other solutions to the problem, many of which also solve other root causes of the problem. I felt that there was not much I could say further on those other solutions. I merely wished to contribute constructively to the discussion with another possible solution.David Turner wrote:Why is specialization (as far as character abilities) even necessary? What people are asking for is specialization in terms of character productivity. They want people to buy stuff from other people and be able to sell stuff to other people, and they see all-rounder characters as having no need to engage in either of those tasks. That is why this thread was originally opened, and it is not primarily an issue of character skill levels. If the problem is not primarily caused or perpetuated by the skill levels of characters than it stands to reason that a good solution would have nothing to do with them either. Otherwise you simply add problems with no directly associated gain for the problems that are added. One such problem is the high number of characters who are already all-rounders, in some respect, that would therfore cause the proposed solution with those type of requirements to alienate almost the entire current gamebase of dedicated long-term characters. Because, no matter what you say, power granted to someone else /does/ make your character /comparably/ weaker.
This is certainly an interesting approach, but it only encourages specialization in new characters. Once a character becomes a "master" (greather than 70-80% skill) of the craft they have chosen, there is nothing to further encourage them to continue focusing on their "mastered" craft. That is why, like your previous alternate approach, I do not think this would work to help solve the problem this thread is all about.David Turner wrote:Perhaps if the advantage was particularly weak at high levels than this solution would work (assuming that outside sources are available to fulfill the other required tasks, such as gathering). What if the only solution was an increased production speed on one's chosen "specialist" profession that drops off to zero by 70% or 80% skill? This would encourage specialization in new characters by making it easier to focus on the one area but would not cause any change at higher skill levels, therfore preserving the end-game effects of high skill. It would also help solve the problem that people have pointed out about certain skills taking so painfully long to learn.
I know different people have different perspectives on what they desire to roleplay in the game. Having chars with almost all the professions, including a crafter...I honestly am not interested much in the roleplay of trade especially forced trade i.e. you are unable to make something so spend literally days hunting someone that can, including getting online with that char at a certain time in order to meet and exchange coin etc. WAY too much ooc work for me to really enjoy. In order to craft even carpenter items, you would need lumberjacking and smithing. I think if the skills were set up where carpenters can actually make items without the prerequisite of using smithed items, the "all-rounder" would be less needed.I do not like to interact with only the same chars every day. I do not like to trade goods in dimension of thousands of units, only because any single person can sell them cheap to me or can pay so much. And Ido not like to let my char cook his food, only because I can not find a cook and my char does not like to eat apples. I want low scale interaction everyday, low scale trading, low scale RP that touchs the crafting profession of my chars in their daily life. This is what Illarion makes alive for me. Not only to do a new expedition cross the Isle, though the preparing the equipment for such expedition. This is why I give orders to other instead to to do the job myself. I hope that the other players keep active by this.
Maybe I am wrong or missplaced by my own limited view. But what are your strategies to force interaction? Feel free to write your Ideas.
Summary: I do not want buy 6.000 apple boards by anyone who is lumberjack, carpenter, smith, warrior, mage and alchemist (and can do all other stuff too) only because he has so much in his depot. I want the interaction with lumberjacks to cut the wood together!
Some people are just learning the game or speak only limited in your language so I dont force interaction but allow for the opportunity for whoever wants. There are a variety of methods and each player will probably have their own. You can:what are your strategies to force interaction
) das jetzige System vertreibt mehr als es anzieht . )
Now you're mixing OOC with IG. A rude person IG can be the friendliest in the worl OOC. I use Athian as an example, the charater is an arsehole but the PO is a really good guy.Uhuru wrote:When we first began playing, Evie and I were forced to become all-arounders because we were treated so poorly. We had no choice. We either made what we needed ourselves or we did without because we couldn't afford the prices of the NPCs and we refused to talk to the rude town folks let alone ask them for help. Literally, the players we ran into when we started made such a poor impression, it was a miracle we didn't quit.
We had no choice.
Right... Not EVERYONE has to be the awesome mary sue fighter, I know many PO's wont actually shy away from specialized crafting and have no fighting skill at all, why you ask? COS IT IS A RP GAME!! People are not just out to make as any coins as thy can, people actally like to RP playingth simple life.Uhuru wrote:I haven't seen anyone talk about the loot drops people are getting when they are training or our big PG'rs. They earn tons of coins and things. This is another issue with the "supply/demand" side of things. A few have tons of coins from this very thing. Not from hard work and labor. Not from making and selling items. Sure, Athian has coins to spend and dump into an economy, but where did it come from? Not from his hard work and certainly not from something he supplied to a community or something. (sorry to single you out Athian, you are just the first to pop into my head *winks*) And when Athian does want to spend those coins, people are not willing to toil away in boring tasks like mining all day long all alone.
This is all relative. There can be no true supply and demand scenario if coin and items are "fished" (for lack of a better term) so easily from everywhere. There is no reason to labor away at cooking other than your brother needs to eat so he can go and slay dragons or hunt for latent gems. Why spend time RPing a trade system? I can think of a lot more interesting things to do in terms of RP and I'm sure most others can as well.
But also, a an elf wih 3000 years nder his belt, you CAN RP it as such. Bu with chars who RP being 17 and have all these kills?GolfLima wrote:Mein Charakter ist auch fast ein Alleskönner, aber selbst zu der Zeit, als er noch wenig konnte (und davon nur 2 Dinge richtig gut) war es so
1) Jeder will immer NUR exzellente nagelneue Dinge
2) Keiner ist gewillt einen dafür realistischen Preis zu zahlen bzw.
3) man kann sich einige dieser Dinge auch auf anderem Wege günstiger "besorgen"
die Ökonomie im derzeitigen System ist TOT.
Ich hoffe mal das sich das nach dem VBU ändert.
Nor am I going to stop, just because some people have a problem with the way I RUN MY OWN CHARACTER. Illarion home page wrote:What is "Power Gaming" and is it allowed? Power Gaming (PGing) is a term used to describe a characters actions in the game that don't necessarily follow a realistic pattern of behaviour. An example of this would be to hide your character away from other players so that you can focus on a single task (such as crafting or training a particular combat skill) in order to master it faster than you would do otherwise.
Power Gaming is NOT against the rules but it IS heavily frowned upon
Well I'm a decently friendly soul when I'm not riled anyway.I use Athian as an example, the charater is an arsehole but the PO is a really good guy.
People forget that skills, while not 'visible' to our characters are still a part of their world. A master swordsmen is still a master swordsmen regardless of if he can check his skill levels on a colored bar. Some RP players want the skill based player to restrain his skill use. In doing so they suspend the realism of the situation which most skill players aren't fond of. Here's a common conflicting scenario:All this talk is just pointless. The developers made the game and put it all in. If they didn't want some people to go on and max a few skills, well they wouldn't have put that in or even made it an choice. Just because a bunch of players don't understand or agree with it, doesn't mean it's against the rules or is going to be dealt with. If I meet someone IG that doesn't use the skill engine, I don't go off and say "Blah blah, why don't you use it??" No...it's their own choice, like it is mine to have Leon be the epic character he is. So pay us the same respect and just quit trying to stir shite up. Us powergamer don't care, we'll do what we do and that's that. The end.
I'd happily play 1 handed if I got caught stealing. I was also dead against the jailing being dropped. Lieber "Jerem", bleibe einfach weiter beim RP und alles ist gutGolfLima wrote:bleiben für mich 3 Fragen:
1) Warum wollen die "ach so reichen" Char. keinen ordentlichen Preis zahlen?
2) Warum sollte überhaupt ein Char ein Handwerk außer Magie oder Kämpfen erlernen?
3) Was macht mein Char eigentlich noch hier? (er kämpft nicht / er ist nicht reich / er betreibt kein PG -> eigentlich paßt er doch gar nicht hier hinein)
, Alleskönner und Chars ohne Schwächen sind soooo langweilig!
) )
