Opinion on certain roleplay

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Post by Sirith-Rym » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:59 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Soo...

We should all be goody-two shoes and abide laws and be respectful to our neighbors, Drathe?

I would be completely fine with someone playing a serial killer, a murdering thief, someone who takes pleasure in burning people alive with magic, tieing another up with rope and dragging them away against their will, slavers, etc. Because without those characters the game would be boring.

And this isn't about taking these experience and putting them into RL. That's why it is called Roleplaying... You play a role different then every day life and you have fun doing it. IF we don't have all those listed above what the hell is the need for combat? For PvP? May as well take it out of the game.

Sorry... That's just not my cup of tea.

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Post by Jupiter » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:10 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

As long as the way HOW you roleplay it fits to the rules, everything is alright.

short example:
Archibald grabs the woman's arms and presses her against the wall.
Johann cry quietly, unable to struggle aganst the man's doing.
Archibald: ((are you okay if we play that he has raped her?))
Johanna: ((okay))
Archiabld closes his pants and walks off with an evil grin.

Done. No rule breaking and there was still a rape.

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Post by Nalzaxx » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:12 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

And a sex change too.

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Post by Copper Dragon » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Nalzaxx wrote:And a sex change too.
Archibald is a woman now? Thats gota hurt!?!

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Post by Drathe » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:02 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Sirith-Rym, no, you miss understood my post. I was being topical with the fact that there is an imbalance of ideals/morality and what is acceptable as a character concept and scope of play. I love the bad characters, I want the grit and gutter life to balance out all the super hero fairytale chars in game all the love and hugs. I wish the game was rated mature for adults so quests and characters had room to explore their morality, delve into the darker nature of the races deeper and give the hero chars true, rich in character and life villains to go up against.

And yes it is about experiences in RL in a way, the game needs a level of reality to keep it grounded, for players to relate to. Just as players use their everyday life experiences to add flesh to the characters, in their RP, quest ideas and much more. Fantasy and RL in the context of this game blend well and make it what it is. Take one away what you have left is not a RP game called Illa.

We should all be goody-two shoes and abide laws and be respectful to our neighbours, Drathe? From one player to another player OOC yes we should. I'm not saying we all get along some people are just assholes but even an asshole has to work next to a dick or a...yeh. We do need to have respect for each other and get on. (That goes for what you want to RP with, if it’s something not for you, no harm in a quick occ to say so and move on.) BUT From one character to another hell no, play the game.

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Post by Sirith-Rym » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:12 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

We should all be goody-two shoes and abide laws and be respectful to our neighbours, Drathe?
I was talking about our characters being so. I agree that we shouldn't take what happens IC and let it reflect on our feelings towards the player OOC.

I think we understand each other now, I believe I did misunderstand you.

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Post by Damien » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:58 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

There's one very bad part about even hinting at stuff like rape ingame.

Statistically, between 15 and 25 PER CENT of females have experienced rape or heavy sexual harassment at least once in their lifes. Google it.

About eight or nine years ago, we had a situation where a player did some violent, rape-themed emotes on female chars to make his char appear "more evil".
Sadly, one of his "victims" was a girl who actually had such a thing happen to her about two years before. It took a few of his emotes to make her log out and leave the game.
The last thing that girl wrote to the staff before NEVER being seen again in the comunity was something like "Sorry, but this just ruined two years of therapy. I can't play this game any longer."
For people with such an experience, even suggesting an assumed rape can bring things up.
Of course, if you were a total anus, you could argue that people who reacted like that because of a few lines of text were weak and should not play such games. If you ask me, not caring and not thinking are both worse weaknesses.

Therefore, even with mature themed content, there are a LOT of ways to make a villain character appear villain-ish, and you don't need to rely on the act of sexual harassment. Make your villain pimp bunnies until they explode if you really wish to, but NEVER EVER mention rape on a fellow player.

USE YOUR HEADS !
And treat other people with some respect and a little care too, even if they seem silly at times.
Bad taste and a lack of imaginational abilities don't force anyone to rely on such blunt methods to make a character look "more evil". Be creative, and if you can't, GO READ A FRIGGING BOOK (and don't make that one from Stephen King or Anne Rice).

The act of hinting at prostitution is a totally different thing. If people stick to the server rules, no minor should get in contact with non-minor-suited material, and this game does not has an age hint for no reason. This just does not mean that younger players who have a somewhat mature mind should not play it, though, but a certain maturity is needed to play. Alone from the fact that characters can not be imprisioned or perma-killed, and especially because of character / OOC separation, and a ton more of things.

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Post by MyNameHere » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:19 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Let me see. I know someone who died of an illness. I know someone who was robbed. Suicide, too. SO PLEASE DO NOT USE THAT FORM OF ROLEPLAY IN GAME PLZ!!11. Oh noes. I know someone who has led a happy life. PLEASE DON'T PLAY HAPPY CHARS!!!!! Seriously. Bad things happen. Don't whine about it.

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Post by Djironnyma » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:23 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

I remember this discussion on the society board before and personally i see no reason to repeat the old arguments. We have game rules, well disused game rules. As long as anyone respect them and as long as anyone respect the Players of the other chars anything is fine.

Sure it is possible to play that one char have raped a other if you:
1.)doesnt play the part which you could see in any p0rn film
2.)if you does know the other player well enough to dont hurt his feelings
3.) if the PO of the other char agree

RP in illarion should ever mean playing together, not against each other. Follow this basic point you can play what ever you want (as long as you break no rule). Any-time if your RP means to do any force to a other character, rub him, torture him, kidnapping him, curse him or whatever else you NEED his agreement. So it is anyway better to ask the other PO first before you play "critical" rp with him.

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Post by Damien » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:31 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Congratulations, "MyNameHere", you just proved thyself to qualify as "total anus". In addition to the fact that you seem to enjoy the silly act of not standing with your name to the opinion you state. Not many people are able to do so.

Djironnyma is right, if you know a player well enough who qualifies as "victim", that sure works.
But still, bad taste.
;)

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Post by MyNameHere » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:39 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Thank you. I also think we should censor movies. Kiss scenes totally remind me of the trauma I had when I was called "cute". OMG HARASSMENT.

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Post by Damien » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:42 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Sensible themes don't require that amount of cynism, better keep that for better opportunities :wink:

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Post by MyNameHere » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:46 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

You do realize that victimisation is quite the wrong approach to dealing with rape and especially trivial things like harassment? "Get over it, there are worse things in life." is a clue. Roleplay, books, movies share one fundamental element. They are fiction. Nothing else. People should realise that. Fiction has nothing to do with RL. If you write a book about a child being raped by an adult (i.e. "Lolita") it doesn't mean you are a pedophile. Neither does it traumatise you if you read such a book. If you keep telling people that reading a book traumatises them, they will come running OMG ATTENTION.

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Post by Damien » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:23 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Since not everyone is able or mature enough to go the "proper" way, the theme "rape" should be avoided whenever you're dealing with a "victim" you don't know well enough.
15-25 per cent of female players could have a problem with it.
Is that argumentation so hard to understand ?

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Post by MyNameHere » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:28 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

So 0% of total players ;D? Understood.

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Post by Damien » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:30 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Be careful, there ARE actually female players hiding amongst the community, and some of them are NOT fakes !
:twisted:

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Post by MyNameHere » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:33 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Next you're telling me that the easter bunny is real ;)

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Post by Grokk » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:37 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

MyNameHere wrote:Roleplay, books, movies share one fundamental element. They are fiction. Nothing else. People should realise that. Fiction has nothing to do with RL.
The analogy doesn't work like you want it to, because roleplay, books, and movies also have some fundamental differences. Roleplay involves interaction with real people, unlike the other two. Most of the time you don't get to pick and choose which experiences you want to be exposed to in game; you're forced into a lot of situations. And (for those of us living in the real world, at least) it is clear that some of those situations are so undesirable that they ought be altogether avoided, especially when the roleplaying is done through such an impersonal means and when there are children about.

I'm still dumbfounded that this discussion has gone so far. I figured it was such an abhorrent suggestion that it would spark nothing but outrage. But it seems there are more people in favour of allowing rape than opposed to it.

So...maybe I'm missing something...what exactly is gained by permitting rape?

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Post by Djironnyma » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Grokk wrote:So...maybe I'm missing something...what exactly is gained by permitting rape?
no one will permit rapes in illa they are forbidden and will be forbidden. I also suppose no one wanted to ask to permit them. The point is that you can play that it had happen (without actually play /emote the rape) as long as you...
Me wrote:1.)doesnt play the part which you could see in any p0rn film
2.)if you does know the other player well enough to dont hurt his feelings
3.) if the PO of the other char agree
And to play that Char X have raped/curse/tortured/killed/done whatever to Char Y is IMHO important if we dont want an a all-nice-flower Fantasyworld. If we want villians, we cant banish all evil.

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Post by Silo » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:35 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Grokk wrote: So...maybe I'm missing something...what exactly is gained by permitting rape?
I mean... If you're going to put it that way...

What exactly's gained by playing this game AT ALL? Nothing. It's a game, nothing more. People play it because it's an interactive book - it's fun, interesting, etc. Do you like books about voting for governor? How about books where there's this druid that makes these potions, and like... EVERYONE drinks them, and they all get tiny for a while!

No.

A book's nothing without the deeper, darker bits. And you're not going to get that without stepping on the line of right and wrong. Meaning, some people get to make their little shrinking potions, and others get to make the potion that makes people bleed out of all their pores. And then people take them RANDOMLY and drink them. That makes for an interesting read.

This game's got an age restriction of 16 - so long as my pixelated human doesn't grow an uncensored human penis, I don't see how words effect anything. If you have some dark past that makes things happening in game seem all-to-real and you can't RP in that situation, it's as easy as (( gtg )) + esc.

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Post by HeXiS » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:54 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

people people.. we have code words for these things.. "insert tab A into Slot B and repeat" and for some "Insert furiously" ((only some of you will get that last bit.))

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Post by Grokk » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:05 am

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Djironnyma wrote:And to play that Char X have raped/curse/tortured/killed/done whatever to Char Y is IMHO important if we dont want an a all-nice-flower Fantasyworld. If we want villians, we cant banish all evil.
Silo wrote:A book's nothing without the deeper, darker bits. And you're not going to get that without stepping on the line of right and wrong. Meaning, some people get to make their little shrinking potions, and others get to make the potion that makes people bleed out of all their pores. And then people take them RANDOMLY and drink them. That makes for an interesting read.
That's not a reason for allowing rape specifically.

The only argument that has been given is this general attack on the idea of a game without evil. But that's beside the point. No one has suggested removing murder, torture, cursing or anything other than rape for that matter. Of course we need the deeper, darker bits. Of course it would be completely uninteresting without it. But we are only talking about rape here. I fail to see how removing that alone from the game would lead us to Candyland.

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Post by MyNameHere » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:07 am

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Candyland is reached in small steps.

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Post by Kearun » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:22 am

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

HeXiS wrote:people people.. we have code words for these things.. "insert tab A into Slot B and repeat" and for some "Insert furiously" ((only some of you will get that last bit.))
xD

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Post by Silo » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:30 am

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Grokk wrote: The only argument that has been given is this general attack on the idea of a game without evil. But that's beside the point. No one has suggested removing murder, torture, cursing or anything other than rape for that matter. Of course we need the deeper, darker bits. Of course it would be completely uninteresting without it. But we are only talking about rape here. I fail to see how removing that alone from the game would lead us to Candyland.
Is rape worse than anything else? In my view, death is worse. Should we avoid role playing that, too? The point is that not everyone sees rape as "that" evil - the one that there's no going back from. To some, it's other things. If we banned everything people took offense to... you know. It's been said enough.

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:24 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Jupiter wrote:As long as the way HOW you roleplay it fits to the rules, everything is alright.

short example:
Archibald grabs the woman's arms and presses her against the wall.
Johann cry quietly, unable to struggle aganst the man's doing.
Archibald: ((are you okay if we play that he has raped her?))
Johanna: ((okay))
Archiabld closes his pants and walks off with an evil grin.

Done. No rule breaking and there was still a rape.
FAIL.

No. If I catch anyone doing such stuff, the least harmful I'll do is to dump the account into the big bin of doom.

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Post by Damien » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:27 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Death happens to everyone one day, and all of those who happen to enjoy that experience don't happen to play illarion.
Rape is a totally different thing. It happens to many people, and it's traumatic, and usually people survive it, and people who had that happen to themselves are actually playing this game DEFINITELY.
Torture and stuff like getting one's innards taken out and surviving that because of being resurrected by an evil necromancer are also traumatic, but it's happening to much fewer people and the latter won't happen in real life. Especially the resurrection part.
Therefore it can't be allowed to rp rape while it can be allowed to rp other things that may be worse, and therefore it's highly recommended not to force such rp-situations on players you don't know.
If you say that you don't care if you're poking around in someone's trauma, and if you assume that it's okay to re-traumatize people just for making your char look evil, then something in your head is seriously not right.
I don't know how many female and male players illarion has, but just assume that 20% of players were female. In that case, the chance would be that about 3 to 5 of 100 players had the experience of a rape situation intheir life (not counting the males).
That means, you do have the roughly estimated chance of more than 3 per cent to cause mental pain/trouble to a fellow player who gets confronted with your rapist-rp. Just because you want to act tough and play an evil asshole character, other people have to suffer ?
Example:
If your char picks 10 victims, the chance to "catch" a person who has a problem with it is easily between 30 and 50 per cent. For those who cannot calculate : This means between a THIRD and a HALF.

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Post by Estralis Seborian » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:41 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Just a minor sidenote: "Death" in the world Illarion is something totally different than IRL. You know, we have those not-so-yellow-any-more crosses? And that ghost-state, known as "getting clouded"? And that afterlife thingy, called Cherga's realm? So, getting beaten up in the world of Illarion has a totally different meaning to the characters than it has to a person IRL.

Other than that - what Damien said. If you enjoy playing a rapist, GTFO and drop dead.

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Post by Silo » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:16 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Ok.

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Post by PurpleMonkeys » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:17 pm

Re: Opinion on certain roleplay

Honestly, I've never seen any rapers or raped characters as long as I've played, and I enjoy the game. It's not needed, it doesn't add anything to the game, so stop arguing about it.

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