What're they hiding for?

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Post by Qeewee » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:06 pm

What're they hiding for?

Why are there so many people choosing not to show their character is online? Why is that even an option?
People often get more encouraged to get IG when seeing someone whom they enjoy RPing with IG on the online list, and I myself just get discouraged when something like just now; 6 characters are online and playing but invisible on the online list.; is the only thing showing on the online list.
And also, what's the point of new players not showing on the online list?
(I brought it up here and not with a GM because I want player opinions and not only GM opinions)

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Post by S'rrt » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:27 pm

Off the top of my head I'd think that people sometimes don't want to show their character online because they might be doing something non-important or OOC-related with it, thus removing the false hopes of others in roleplaying with the said character. Is it annoying to have always on? Yes. Definitely. I would rather see all characters online and save the hidden status for when it's absolutely needed (for whatever reason).

Considering new people being hidden, they sometimes come to the stunning realization that Illarion might not, indeed, be the game for them. Shocking, I know. That means they've only played for a short time before quitting thus saving "useless" names from being shown on the online-list.

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Post by Qeewee » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:45 pm

But instead of hiding the new players, wouldn't it be better to have them marked (N) or whatever the GMs see them as? Because some people stay, and some already have RP experience and are good at this, causing them to be liked in this community and older players would perhaps like to see when they are online to get in game and roleplay with them. And we were all new once?

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Post by Colin Smalls » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:48 pm

In the past, it was because I didn't want people learning the character's name. Or read the profile. Also, I prefer meeting up with people organically, rather than arranging it via msn or spotting them on the list. Odd I know, but its how I roll. Feels more like real life I guess? (at least in a world without phones!)

Your probably right though, hiding is kinda pointless.

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Post by Qeewee » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:56 pm

The hiding option is really more of a thing to be added when there are more players, we have too few players to have some of them hiding really

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Post by Damien » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:59 pm

Well, of some i heard, they actually WANT their chars to hide from other chars, and others just want to powergame witout being disturbed in general. ;)

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Post by Qeewee » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:10 pm

Damien wrote:Well, of some i heard, they actually WANT their chars to hide from other chars, and others just want to powergame witout being disturbed in general. ;)
Yes, we all have encountered Damien on the library roof powergaming magic sometime :P
Or was that just me?
Anyways, if you want your char to hide from other chars, don't log on, the online list is ooc and IG is IG so chars to hide for other chars via ooc?
And powergaming does not really make people, or atleast the non powergamers, support the idea of hiding your character being on huh?

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Post by Kevin Lightdot » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:27 pm

Also don't forget the 'quick, there's no elves online, lets burn Vanima' kinda thing.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm all for burning Vanima like any self-respecting non-treehugging person.

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Post by Qeewee » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:45 pm

Kevin Lightdot wrote:Also don't forget the 'quick, there's no elves online, lets burn Vanima' kinda thing.
That's simply bad RP, rather you have to contact a GM to make wildfires and such instead of it being engined.

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Post by Kevin Lightdot » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:47 pm

Qeewee wrote:
Kevin Lightdot wrote:Also don't forget the 'quick, there's no elves online, lets burn Vanima' kinda thing.
That's simply bad RP, rather you have to contact a GM to make wildfires and such instead of it being engined.
GM's arn't the around 100% of the time drama police.

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Post by Quinasa » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:21 pm

Re: What're they hiding for?

Qeewee wrote:Why are there so many people choosing not to show their character is online? Why is that even an option?
People often get more encouraged to get IG when seeing someone whom they enjoy RPing with IG on the online list, and I myself just get discouraged when something like just now; 6 characters are online and playing but invisible on the online list.; is the only thing showing on the online list.
And also, what's the point of new players not showing on the online list?
(I brought it up here and not with a GM because I want player opinions and not only GM opinions)
You shouldn't only get in game when you see someone you want to RP with is listed on the Online List. It also shouldn't deter you from getting in game if you don't see names you know. People should be getting in game to play their characters, not because someone else is online. It bothers me when someone shows up and says "oh, I was looking for you" just because they saw my name on the Online List and they know where my char hangs out.

I keep my chars hidden for anti-metagaming reasons.

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Post by Llama » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:42 pm

I used to hide my char to stop people looking at me online and asking me for Magic Lessons.

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Post by Zahra Fiarai » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:52 am

It's funny because I see reason for both sides and experienced choosing both options at one point with different chars. With a viewable character, more people who I associated with in-game would log on thinking, "Oh, great. So and so is on..." -- Which I used to be against right away, seeing as how (as stated above and many times before) that's more for an OOC reason. However, it did lead to more roleplay, which meant more experiences, more fun, etc. On the other hand, as Hadrian pointed out, you tend to grow a little discouraged when your name is listed and people tend to run around town shouting for you in an attempt to gain membership of a guild or have a question about a certain item, event, etc. All in all, I see both sides. I used to feel like not playing at times when ten or so people were unknown and hiding...somewhere, although I generally do the same and don't show my char. In this case, I'd just say play and hope you get to meet whoever is around in-game. It might even surprise you on who it could be. :twisted:

PS - I thought the intent of hiding newbies right away was in case of name changing and whatnot? Although I recall playing for hours and hours before my name ever appeared on the list with one of my other characters...

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Post by Qeewee » Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:41 am

Zahra Fiarai wrote: It did lead to more roleplay, which meant more experiences, more fun, etc.
That's more or less why I posted this topic, I believe to stop hiding the characters would make more people log on and more interesting RP happen.
Zahra Fiarai wrote: PS - I thought the intent of hiding newbies right away was in case of name changing and whatnot? Although I recall playing for hours and hours before my name ever appeared on the list with one of my other characters...
If that's the case, couldn't the characters have to go through a name check instead, before they are played?

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Post by Flux » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:23 am

Ugh.

We originally had a name check, and that annoyed players because they had to wait for a GM to approve their name. The function is still even in the tool but it's so clunky that it's not worth using.

We originally had an online list that didn't sort by race or alphabetically, rather by how long you'd been ingame, with no distinction of who was new and who wanted to hide their chars. People would metagame and magically know your character's name from online list deduction, and then be like "Oh I got told by a friend".

Although I've never used the hidden function and occasionally got annoyed when my friends used it, because I was one of these people who only hopped ig when I saw the name of someone I liked, I can see the benefits. e.g. You don't want to be disturbed, you have a fake name, you're pging your arse off, etc.

Everything you're suggesting is how it was originally, and we moved away from that because it didn't work like we'd like and it was obselete. The name check and player-identified name checking ("Another name to kill") drove away players.

I don't think the online list change has been a contributing factor in the drop of levels of rp.

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Post by S'rrt » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:41 am

Just playing a little imagination game here, what if all players were hidden? The online list would only display the amount of people online, making it rather authentic to log in without knowing who's occupying the world and actually having to do some work to find them in order to RP (or simply bump into them triggering a spontaneous RP). Not saying this is something I would like to see implemented, just wondering if others share my thoughts.

EDIT: I do realize this would throw the character profiles out the window but there might be other ways those can be displayed.

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Post by Qeewee » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:58 pm

S'rrt wrote:Just playing a little imagination game here, what if all players were hidden? The online list would only display the amount of people online, making it rather authentic to log in without knowing who's occupying the world and actually having to do some work to find them in order to RP (or simply bump into them triggering a spontaneous RP). Not saying this is something I would like to see implemented, just wondering if others share my thoughts.

EDIT: I do realize this would throw the character profiles out the window but there might be other ways those can be displayed.
There is a place in the illapedia/wiki where you can post your characters profile under its race I believe, so I don't think that would be much of a problem, perhaps even making a site for character profiles offline and online not mattering could be done if this would be practicable. And this pretty topic is supposed to be kind of a imagination game about the online list :P

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Post by Flux » Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:51 pm

The online list is not a concern and the staff have more important things (VBU) to be doing.

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Post by S'rrt » Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:08 pm

We're discussing things, not demanding change. Yeah, it's nitpicking but I know I learned something.

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Post by Qeewee » Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:09 pm

Flux wrote:The online list is not a concern and the staff have more important things (VBU) to be doing.
Just because you are and have been really grumpy lately doesn't mean we can't discuss things that might get changed AFTER the VBU has been.

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Post by Flux » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:04 pm

You're effectively saying "Yes, I know what I'm suggesting has been tried and tested and deemed obselete, but I wasn't there when it happened, so can we try it again please?"

Been there, done that, there's no problem to fix.

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Post by Qeewee » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:30 am

Flux wrote:You're effectively saying "Yes, I know what I'm suggesting has been tried and tested and deemed obselete, but I wasn't there when it happened, so can we try it again please?"

Been there, done that, there's no problem to fix.
As S'rrt said:
We're discussing things, not demanding change. Yeah, it's nitpicking but I know I learned something.

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Post by S'rrt » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:42 pm

I know I'm discussing it but one can't help but get the impression that you're trying to drive a point here, Qeewee. You should learn to take opposing opinions and not try to create some sort of new system here because it's kind of difficult to find one that works. Flux knows this.

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Post by Shandariel el Lysanthrai » Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:09 pm

I used to hide my chars appearance on the Online list once thiefs/assassins started to pop up and try to kill her as soon as i logged in. Also I did so due of those who burned and chopped down Vanima in the past. They had the habbit to logg out as soon as they saw me or other elfs online. That became better once I weren't shown anymore on the "who is online" list.

Players of Evil and Good chars tend to hide their chars due of this metagaming, trying to avoid others using the list to their ingame advantage. And players of criminal chars also hide their chars since it can be easily guessed which name you got once you rob someone and you are one of the few online.

And some simply like to be secretive ;)

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Post by Kevin Lightdot » Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:30 am

Weren't you like.. gone? D:

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Post by Damien » Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:43 am

People who hide their chars by standard may seem away, but are not. That's true.

The biggest "advantage" i see in the possibility to hide one's name, is to "re-pwn" engine-cheaters. Well, i use that expression due to lack of another word - people who log in and try to wreak havoc when they think "oh, there are only two dwarves/elves/halfers online, lets go online and raid them/burninate the place/whatever". Those guys tend to, well, usually seem to appear less happy when they suddenly have to see five to ten very online players of that fraction lining up in a more or less coordinated effort to catch them... although that can happen unplanned, inagine that you'd get much more surprise if it happened coordinated.
:lol:

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