Hi Illa.

Everything about Illarion that fits nowhere else. / Alles über Illarion was inhaltlich in kein anderes Board passt.

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Post by Colin Smalls » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:09 pm

Hi Illa.

During my brief return here a week ago, I noted some things some of you folks (mostly gms and game designers, I'd suspect) might find interesting.

Since I know barely anyone now, plus I'm a full time university student with work, girlfriend, and all that shabazz, my POV is basically that of a NOOB. So it could be a useful one for attracting new players.

Basically, nothing seemed to be happening. At all. There were a couple of folks using the workshops in Trollsbane, I found a nice n00b halfling cook, the typical couple of dudes pging in the yard, and of course the odd german speaker in Varshikar. But there was no roleplay.

When I say no roleplay, I don't mean roleplay, I mean stories. What I always loved about Illa were the on-going plots between players, whether guild wars, a romance gone wrong, some great building project, a quest (a proper quest I might add), blah blah blah. You know what I mean. And I logged on for several days, but found none of this, here or on the forums.

So there's your problem. The only way for me to really interact with anything would've been to pg up my character, and yet even if I had the time, looking at it as a new player, what would be the point? A character needs a purpose, and Illarion used to be excellent at giving characters purposes, but I couldn't find any.

Obviously, I care about this place otherwise I wouldn't have posted this. However, if I had been a genuine n00b, I would've logged out pretty quick. :)

So, I've had a think, and I've come up with three seperate issues and possible ways to resolve them.

1) Illarion is currently too big. By too big, I mean its been set up to support a much large player community. There are numerous defunct guilds, about a dozen minor villages/settlements, and everything (at least with the current player population) seems far too spread out. The result? Walking through all these places makes it feel like visiting an old castle ruins. A ghost town. And believe me, that is VERY uninviting to a new player. It tells them right of the bat that people aren't playing this game.

The solution? Shrink Illarion. It may sound radical, but it would make the game far more enjoyable if the community was brought together instead of being spread out across the map. I'd suggest this be done before anything else.

2) Introduce a proper, ongoing storyline. Don't let the game just meander. Real life doesn't meander. If the players aren't doing it, then its up to the GMs. I'd be glad to help out in this respect, if you need any help at all. I am a creative writing student, and this stuff is fun to me.

3) As a last resort (though obviously I know this would never happen for many reasons), the character wipe. Eliminate them all, and start the game over. While there are obvious cons, and it would (seem) to suck for many, it would allow everyone, old and new, to start the game afresh, and breathe fresh life into it.

Cheers if any of you bother to read this, and if any of it angers you remember that I'm only thinking of the game, and adding a perspective. :wink:

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Post by Grokk » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:16 pm

Can't disagree with any of that.

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Post by Arvemor » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:32 pm

Old player in disguise.... He sounds exactly like them... <.<
But yeah, you're right. It is like that.

-EDIT-

However...be expected to be shot down in flames. The last character wipe didn't go down so well, I hear. And I like the shrinking idea.

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Post by Ezor Edwickton » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:01 pm

First off welcome back. I am also a returning old player. I joined in 2003, and left in 2005 i believe.

I agree that Illarion seems to be in a slump right now, and I think new players would only join if they know someone personally who is currently playing. There just aren't enough active players right now.

I totally agree with your first point. The map is too big to support the number of active players at the moment. In the past the map was much smaller; much, much smaller. The community grew and then so did the map. Then the community shrunk and we are stuck with a big map, and not enough people to populate it. Shrinking the map may help the game feel better, and it wouldn't necessarily mean deleting cities and stuff. Most of these places existed on smaller maps before, everything was just closer together.

On point 2, I somewhat agree, and somewhat disagree. Plot lines and conflicts should generally arise from the player playing the game. It has happened in the past, just use your imagination. The only problem with that is there have been a lot of poorly rp'd villains at times and this should not be attempted by a new player. People who want to play villains may want to consider 'temporary' characters. Remember ongoing story doesn't mean there always has to be a war to fight. On the other hand the GM's have access to more tools to colour the plot, and less attachment to the characters used.

On point 3, I have no idea what a char wipe would solve. This would take away from continuing plots more then anything.

In any case I hope you stick around. There is still a lot of fun to be had in game, you might just have to look a little harder for it then in the past. There are still a lot of hardcore rpers out there and they are just a eager to find someone to rp with as you are.

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Post by Olaf Tingvatn » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:27 pm

i agree wholeheartedly with the first points! the character wipe..nooooot so much..i like my character and i use him for roleplaying only now a days....shrinking the map would be a VERY good way of bringing characters together. but, can you imagine the clustercopulation with 20 characters talking and emoting in a small area? i can..because i have seen it >,< not many roleplayers left here....i want wolf back..and Dain..and the Rothmans!! politicians fighting over power made this game fun..now the Game Masters "run" trollsbane...but the prince havent been around for ages..yes yes..i'll stop ranting now:P

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Post by DemaraSilberherz » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:33 pm

How about this.. stop talking and start playing :-P

And I would stop playing Illa immediately if there would be a char wipe. ( we had this discussion once before)
you`re all free to delete your chars and make a new one if you think that`s so much fun to start a new life and to skill all your skills again ;-)

And its always really interesting seeing ( first, always the same people ) and some old players coming back.. and the first thing they do is grump around what could be done better.

The GM`s are knowing this allready! How about wait and see what the VBU will bring! ;-)

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Post by Kamilar » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:50 pm

*pounces!* Get in game and play wif me! :D

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Post by Llama » Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:07 am

:O Colin Smells :)

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Post by bdgdkay » Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:35 am

Hadrian_Abela wrote::O Colin Smells :)
:lol:

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Post by Juliana D'cheyne » Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:10 am

Welcome! Hope you decide to stay after all and contribute to the game as others have and will. I understand though won't agree with all your perspective yet each to their own ideas and am glad you are concerned enough about the game to have some ideas. :wink:

I am of the opinion the sparsity of the roleplay ( stories, romance, lack of romance etc ) at present is not only all GM's and dev's concentrating on the VBU but also player hesitancy to begin something not sure what will happen with the VBU. Others for some reason or another don't play as much. One week IMO is not much time to give the game a chance btw. Map wise, I love exploring so HAVE to disagree. It would be so boring to know everything on it. Exploring with another char is even more fun!

Not exactly sure what you mean by introducing a "storyline" however one big pull of Illa compared to other games is the player can actually contribute to the story ig. I played one that the story line was so defined it stifled creative roleplay and wouldn't like the game to become that confining, however if you mean quest ideas I believe all is sort of on hold for the present. In other words probably a bad time to return or be a new player yet hopefully people will stick around and contribute what they can to make the game interesting for all. I have met only a couple but been very impressed with some of the new players and hope they stay.

As far as number three this is just one thread but a search will probably get you others, I think some have a very valid point why it just wouldn't and hasn't worked in the past: http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... sc&start=0
Aside from some player frustration you would also wipe some very rich player history.. discussing the idea simply RP-wise.

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Post by Grokk » Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:44 am

I think that the real issue is not the size of the map, but the number of settlements on it. The magic teleporters/mage portals/travel books make any travel time/distance problems obsolete. If everyone is on the other side of the map, you can be there in an instant. The problem is that the population has been divided between so many different areas of the map. Look at the most recent page of the Guild Forum. Of all the guilds listed there, all but around 5 of them have their own guildhouse/castle/town/land. The majority of guilds should never have been allowed to build in the first place. Thankfully, many of the guilds have died off, and their lands have emptied with them. But it doesn't take long for someone else to come along and stake their claim. They should just be destroyed; turn them into ruins or something interesting. There are just too many settlements, look at the map. It would be an appropriate amount if we were averaging, say, 200 people online, but at our current level it just spreads the population too thinly. Two, maybe three, settlements would be plenty.

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Post by Arvemor » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:07 am

Also agreed with. For those that speak Veebeeyoobenese... what's happening map-wise? If we can ask?

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Post by pharse » Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:25 am

Arvemor wrote:Also agreed with. For those that speak Veebeeyoobenese... what's happening map-wise? If we can ask?
Hotspots are created, noone will be allowed to build anything outside towns (perhaps in rare cases). Guilds can rather rent a house. This of course includes a migration of the current state to the VBU-state.

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Post by Randnar » Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:35 am

Olaf Tingvatn wrote:i agree wholeheartedly with the first points! the character wipe..nooooot so much..i like my character and i use him for roleplaying only now a days....shrinking the map would be a VERY good way of bringing characters together. but, can you imagine the clustercopulation with 20 characters talking and emoting in a small area? i can..because i have seen it >,< not many roleplayers left here....i want wolf back..and Dain..and the Rothmans!! politicians fighting over power made this game fun..now the Game Masters "run" trollsbane...but the prince havent been around for ages..yes yes..i'll stop ranting now:P
Why on earth do you think we are running Trollsbane? O.o

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Post by Olaf Tingvatn » Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:40 am

Randnar wrote:
Olaf Tingvatn wrote:i agree wholeheartedly with the first points! the character wipe..nooooot so much..i like my character and i use him for roleplaying only now a days....shrinking the map would be a VERY good way of bringing characters together. but, can you imagine the clustercopulation with 20 characters talking and emoting in a small area? i can..because i have seen it >,< not many roleplayers left here....i want wolf back..and Dain..and the Rothmans!! politicians fighting over power made this game fun..now the Game Masters "run" trollsbane...but the prince havent been around for ages..yes yes..i'll stop ranting now:P
Why on earth do you think we are running Trollsbane? O.o
i wrote "running"......maybe i should have been more clear on the sarcasm? wonder when those salkamarian guards will go away...

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Post by Colin Smalls » Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:02 pm

Arvermor:

Cheers, and I knew that, just thought I'd throw it out there anyway. :P

Ezor: Kind words! :)

The shrinking idea is what I'd call the most important option out of those three. The gms don't have to delete portions of the map, either. There could even be a rp reason, eg: some insane wizard invoking a magical wall, blocking the inhabitants in. Or something. But Illarion really is too big right now.

I'm 100% behind you in the 'players should create the stories', yet it doesn't seem to be happening, for whatever reason. When nothings happening, the gms should give the game a little push, or kickstart. That's what I'd do anyhow.

Olaf:
I think Dain is still around, at least I spotted him a few weeks ago during my visit. I don't see a problem with a GM running Trollsbane, they should be a bit more active though, if what you say is true.

Demara: Understood, I won't bother arguing further for a character wipe, I doubt I'd get listened to, and you might be correct anyhow. I'm not grumping, I'm just bringing POV and perspective btw.

Kamilar:
Maaaaaaybe. :P

Hadrian:
:o You remember!

Juliana: Points taken, though I still think the map should be shrunk. On the storyline, understand that I'm talking about a gm induced kickstart, and a storyline which could readily be changed and altered by player actions. Just think of it as a wake up call, hopefully things could go back to normal afterward.

Grokk: This is more what I mean when I say Illarion is too big. There are too many defunct settlements and guildhouses and what are essentially 'abandoned ruins'.

Zot

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Post by Zot » Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:00 pm

No Charwipe with the VBU!!!

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Post by Karl » Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:34 pm

Zot wrote:No Charwipe with the VBU!!!
You lie, begone!

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Post by Qeewee » Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:34 pm

The illa map being too big and all with too many towns, what about some kind of system where you can know how many characters are in the different regions? Perhaps some kind of sensors on the border lines of the towns showing on the online list as for example; Troll's Bane: 7 and such? This way RP would be easier to find because you would know somewhat where the characters online are and not have to search everywhere for them.

((I don't have much knowledge about how the system works, so that about sensors is just to show what I mean somewhat))

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Post by Kamilar » Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:39 pm

Colin Smalls wrote:Kamilar:
Maaaaaaybe. :P
Don't make me stalk you! :D

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Post by Llama » Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:48 pm

Qeewee wrote:some kind of system where you can know how many characters are in the different regions?
There is something already like this in Noobia already as far as I remember. It shouldn't take long for someone to port it.

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Post by Sonara Stone » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:43 pm

If there is a charwipe I will bawl for days. Seriously. Dooon't do it.

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Post by Ardian » Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:39 pm

Zot wrote:No Charwipe with the VBU!!!

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Post by Elijah » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:07 pm

I honestly think I have the ability to churn up the collected dust IG and create some cool IG opportunities. The only problem that stands between this, is the basic fact that those opportunities include the basic human spirit that makes people think they shouldn't be able to lose, and that their character is somehow the person behind the screen.

It's kind of hard to create actual RP and IG strife honestly, while any group that you're facing IG is having massive msn orgies.

And no, for the sake of all that is holy, that WAS NOT directed towards anyone at all. It's a simple equation that happens on both sides, mine included.

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Post by Kamilar » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:24 pm

Oh Elijah... just get in game and do it. :wink:

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Post by bdgdkay » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:14 pm

Kamilar wrote:Oh Elijah... just get in game and do it. :wink:
I have to agree with that. You say a lot that you go in game and you don't see anyone. Well I can't speak for everyone, but when I see the governor in game, I usually get online and try to find him to interact with him. With a character with as much influence as yours, you need to be willing to put in the extra effort to create more roleplaying opportunities.

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Post by Velisai » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:51 pm

Elijah wrote:stuff
Next time someone lets their char lose and go to jail, try contacting the player to get some RP going maybe? I practically told you I'd play along with anything, including permadeath and nothing happened.

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Post by Flux » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:35 pm

I practically told you I'd play along with anything, including permadeath and nothing happened.
If everyone was as rational and logical as you with your approach to roleplay, Illa would be awesome.

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Post by Grokk » Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:10 am

I agree with Flux; that is classy and refreshing to see, Vel.

But I think it's pretty absurd for people to be attacking Elijah for not creating roleplaying opportunities. I think you would be hard-pressed to find a PO who has created more roleplaying opportunities in the last 4 months or so than he. The problem is that no one bothers to do anything with the opportunities presented. People are quite happy to just find an OOC way around the conflict they are faced with and then carry on playing the game in their perfect, unchanged state of harmony. Anyone who has been in his position knows the amount of OOC crap you have to deal with, and, when combined with the lack of anyone doing anything interesting at the moment, I don't think he can be blamed for not having the motivation to log on every day.

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Post by bdgdkay » Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:25 am

Grokk wrote:I agree with Flux; that is classy and refreshing to see, Vel.

But I think it's pretty absurd for people to be attacking Elijah for not creating roleplaying opportunities. I think you would be hard-pressed to find a PO who has created more roleplaying opportunities in the last 4 months or so than he. The problem is that no one bothers to do anything with the opportunities presented. People are quite happy to just find an OOC way around the conflict they are faced with and then carry on playing the game in their perfect, unchanged state of harmony. Anyone who has been in his position knows the amount of OOC crap you have to deal with, and, when combined with the lack of anyone doing anything interesting at the moment, I don't think he can be blamed for not having the motivation to log on every day.
I'm hardly attacking him.. I'm just saying I haven't seen much from him since I returned to the game. Also It's nothing personal against him in general, its just that we almost never get an active governor.. And that doesn't mean every governor has been inactive, so don't jump on me for that, but you can't help but notice the trend.

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