How many of the magic teachers are still active?

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Post by Arylide » Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:49 pm

How many of the magic teachers are still active?

How many of the magic teachers are still active and by that I mean true teachers that can grant runes and are active enough to teach magic in a progressive and meaningful way? As a newly mage character having filled out an application, I’ve had no word from any of the listed teachers or ‘sub’ teachers? Are the sub teachers not given access to the teaching room or able to grant runes?

What’s going on? As character with sword in hand I can jump right into the game and start interacting with my chosen vocation, same for a crafter. But as a mage I have to sit around and wait on the whim of another player if they have time or empathy to teach me? I even heard of a mage that will only give runes to female mages. While I understand the characters reasoning and even like the idea of that, come on... I want to learn a big part of the game that seems to be closed off. Out of the others recently on the application list (if they are even reading this) who found a teacher?

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Post by Pellandria » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:18 pm

The application list is in no way indicating who gets a rune or who gets a teacher, the best way is to get into the game and get to know the teacher, the reason why new people have almost no chance to get any rune is easily explained, it takes a good rl year to be useful as a mage, that means around half an rl year just for teaching runes and theory, which results in people not wanting to waste their time on newbies, who jsut leave the game after 2 months, because they suddendly found out that this game isn't something they like.

So yes you will barely see anyone getting runes, especially with their oh so boring and always the same "I always wanted to be a mage"or "I had mage parents" or some"I want to help people" reasoning. The only true way to get a teacher to teach you is either proof that you are doing good in rp or that you are dependable, sorry the system sucks yes, but thats how it is for now.

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Post by Arvemor » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:45 pm

Yes, many of the applications on the board have been there for a good while now. I would suggest that you keep playing as your student character, but make them popular amongst the community.

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Post by Flux » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:46 pm

Don't bother with the board, noone reads it.

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Post by Nalzaxx » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:55 pm

I even heard of a mage that will only give runes to female mages
Ahahaha.

I think I can guess who that is.

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Post by Arylide » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:10 am

Give more mage players teaching runes then (or however it works.) Or don’t take so long teaching players. Don't horde this amazing and fantastic part of the game. Who are you Pella or other players to decide who is good enough at RP to be allowed magic? The same could be said for a sword or a slicer or a needle and thread, or druids? Such a chunk of the game is denied to many but the few ‘favoured or lucky’ players it’s no wonder the majority power game fighters.

Give out runes quicker, stop making such a player made chore out of it all and quicken up the system. If you want to keep the relic of power and control save it for the more powerful runes and spells? A little bit for everyone there no?

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Post by Grokk » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:21 am

Arylide wrote:Who are you Pella or other players to decide who is good enough at RP to be allowed magic?
I'm just a gal with a healthy interest in online girl-on-girl lovemaking through text.

<3

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Post by Alexander Knight » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:31 am

Arylide wrote: Who are you Pella or other players to decide who is good enough at RP to be allowed magic? The same could be said for a sword or a slicer or a needle and thread, or druids?
It is the same for druids. Although the magic system is messed up I honestly do like it. It makes you work to become a mage as it should be and when you get a mage char you can be proud of what you have achieved.

I'm trying to make a mage at the moment just to be a teacher. Sort of my way of helping the system and its good to aspire not just "yay Im a mage. I can pwn u wid my awesome skillz".

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Post by Alexander Knight » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:33 am

Grokk wrote:
Arylide wrote:Who are you Pella or other players to decide who is good enough at RP to be allowed magic?
I'm just a big german bloke with a healthy interest in online girl-on-girl lovemaking through text.

<3
/fix

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Post by Kranek » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:44 am

Simple answer:
magic is too powerful to give it to any newb char that jsut came from WoW to pwn us with his uberskillz.
The theory of magic is...large. You need to know it before you can play a mage.
Almost everyone knows how to swing a sword or how to cook some food, thats why its possible to play it immidiately.
Magic is different.

btw: who are YOU that you can ask such question and ask for big changes? When did ya join this game? How long have ya been a member of this community? How good do you know this game?

You have much to learn my young apprentice!

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Post by Arylide » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:02 am

Fair point Kranek and amusingly put, but exactly the same argument could be said for the sword. Its overly frustrating and biased for any player, new or old to get into. As a new mage character you get to do what... walk around looking for a mage to pester who has no time and to many students anyhow? Besides if newer players get some easy /mid level runes that gives them something to do and be! The older mages still can hold their uber power and teach more powerful runes . Anyone who becomes a nuisance, that’s what the Gm! And GM’s are for.

I'm not asking for some great system change, I'm asking played teachers to cut their own created red tape, stop hording a great part of the game and open it up a little, give away entry level runes quickly let new mages feel and be a mage sooner see if they like it, rather than later once they been made to do a diploma in mana and cybering for runes.

As for your last quesion, how long I've played does that matter here on this topic? In fact its rather fitting and makes the point better that I'm though of as new rather than the old player I might be?

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Post by Korwin » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:11 am

I think the primarily difficulty with the whole magic system is that the vision is to keep it extraordinary, unlike all the other skills. Regretfully, I have to say I'm behind that idea, that magic shouldn't be something that's widespread and frankly, banal. Unfortunately, at the moment the only way to do that is to make it a very exclusive club, because it's such a desireable ability to have. I have no doubt that if any player could have a mage/magic using character with just a commitment of time and roleplaying ability, 90% of characters, by time online, would have magic, and there would be nothing exceptional about it.

I get the impression that sooner or later that's going to shift, and magic will be just as accessible as something like alchemy, and I think that's going to be an unfortunate day, but I accept that it's going to make a lot of people happy.

Lastly, here's my advice for players who don't end up getting magic 'handed' to them. You've got to play the game to have any chance at all. If just asking was all it took, no one would be able to teach you anyway, because they would have all the students they could handle. You need to sell your character concept, and that takes more than a paragraph. To keep it short, you have to be prepared to play a character that is interesting without any magical ability, and you have to convince the players in power of that through your actions. Frankly, a week isn't remotely close to enough time to do that.

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Post by Faladron » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:20 am

See I understand why you people bash those noobs that can't spell right.

The noobs that don't Rp well.
The noobs that are here for the pwn.

But why on earth do you people ridicule and bash a new player with more than decent typing and grammar, knowledgable on how to express himself and definately an enrichment to the community?

Ask yourselves this in all honesty: Do I fear loosing the status of "big fish in the pond" once this game would start to attract a bigger crowd and thus try everything I can to keep the status quo where Illarion is a smelly old backwater pond that only some people bother to play because I am one of those that excell over them?

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Post by Retlak » Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:56 am

No matter how many fish this game attracts, I will still love cake.

Good night I am smiled.

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Post by Loophole » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:08 am

Druidism can be learned without a teacher, its easy

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Post by Llama » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:25 am

Loophole wrote:Druidism can be learned without a teacher, its easy
Illarion still remains a co-operative roleplaying game. The intention is that people who co-operate with others, who talk to others and seek other's help should gain more.

Now the magic system is broken. The staff knows this - and its liable to change with the VBU (hopefully). However, I do not think that any system will ever be designed by intention that a person on his own will learn faster.

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Post by Alex Heartnet » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:29 am

Loophole wrote:Druidism can be learned without a teacher, its easy
Maybe so, but the books in the druidhouse present the information in the most confusing way possible, and there is a lot of it. At some point you will need advice from another druid or alchemist. And a mage can just experiment with rune combinations to see what it does, while the cost of gem dust makes an alchemist think things through before experimenting with any potions.

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Post by Pellandria » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:46 am

Arylide wrote:Give more mage players teaching runes then (or however it works.)
Giving the teaching rune out is rather hard , you need alot of skill and as far as I know only a few chars ig can even give away the tweaching rune, not to forget that you actually need the other runes to teach them and you need alot of skill to teach a rune aswell. So that means even with the teaching rune you still need the skill and the time, giving runes normally involve around an hour of rp the "ritual" atleast I do so, I saw people doing a "#me flicks his wrist and mumbles some words" boom instant rune, but everyone how he or she likes it I guess, but thats ~only~ runegiving not all the theory around it, which will keep you busy, not to mention that you can have up to 3 Students at a time, but having more than one already results in the teacher doing nothing other than teaching or skilling till you can teach other runes, which makes the game incredibly boring and results in people leaving.
Arylide wrote: Or don’t take so long teaching players.
There are technical regulations, you can only teach a student two runes per one rl week, add that up to the fact that the students needs skills for some runes, aswell as the teacher it might take up to a month till you see any new runes, not to mention that freelancing teachers, without access to the teaching chamber loose skill.
Arylide wrote: Who are you Pella or other players to decide who is good enough at RP to be allowed magic?
I seriously should stop answering any thing after this, I sacrificed alot of time and recently Skill to teach people, I'm probably one of the teachers with the "most runes given away" and with the most students , so please before you go all out "You are all stupid, you do not give me stuff I want" you might think twice about it, fact is that no magic teacher had any saying how the current system works, it was developed by the devs and plunked on our heads and we have to deal with it.And insulting any left magic teacher isn't a smart move to get one isn't it?
Arylide wrote: The same could be said for a sword or a slicer or a needle and thread, or druids? Such a chunk of the game is denied to many but the few ‘favoured or lucky’ players it’s no wonder the majority power game fighters.
Unlike those things magic is really good to kill people, even the first "attack" runes can be powergamed to kill people rather quickly.
Arylide wrote: Give out runes quicker, stop making such a player made chore out of it all and quicken up the system.
Tell us how?
Arylide wrote:Besides if newer players get some easy /mid level runes that gives them something to do and be!
This is because you do not know enough of magic to decide that, Illarion magic can be bothering, mages can do alot of things to bother people and past has shown that they will eventually do so, because Mages are so skill dependent most of them train wherever they are, of course unless you want a town full of animals all the time ...
Arylide wrote: Anyone who becomes a nuisance, that’s what the Gm! And GM’s are for.
Not happening, mage players and even strong teachers have no way of punishing students and the Gm's don't really react on complains. Maybe a year ago..and for several months we had a real annoying mage called Johann Brown, he got himself some runes and suddendly changed his rp, was it average before it was just bad afterwards, he used magic wherever he could, he had ~no~ idea about magic theory or anything concerning magic and he terrorized every town, casting flames and portals everywhere.Getting annoyed we tried to get a gm to delete his runes..which didn't worked, because another Gm gave the runes back to him almost immediately, leaving an angry Gm, who didn't want to talk about the stuff that lead to this decision.

If teachers had a way to actually punish misbehaving students with blocking of their ruens or anything else, than I guess magic would be spread more easily, as it is for now you really got to think about the people you teach.
Arylide wrote: I'm not asking for some great system change, I'm asking played teachers to cut their own created red tape, stop hording a great part of the game and open it up a little, give away entry level runes quickly let new mages feel and be a mage sooner see if they like it
As I mentioned aswell, the time and effort not only going into teaching and theory, but also the fact that even small runes can be powergamed to be incredibly danger, results in people not really wanting to give away runes easily, furthermore magic should always have a strong bound to the theory it represents, a mage who can jsut cast around, without knowing what magic actually is ...is just bad.
Arylide wrote: As for your last quesion, how long I've played does that matter here on this topic? In fact its rather fitting and makes the point better that I'm though of as new rather than the old player I might be?
I answer that question in the very first post of mine already, teaching a student takes around half an rl year, some "newbie", that you are unfortunately are,can not be trusted to stay ig for that time, you could just get bored and run off, leaving the time and money the teacher spent on you go to vain. But that doesn't mean that a new char can't get a teacher, I already saw one new char getting almost accepted immediately by two teachers once, you simply need to "impress" them, which is done easily with being a good rp'er.

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Post by Arvemor » Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:22 am

Also, in relation to the newbie comment. Some people have also been waiting for about a year...or more. I forget. Just thought I'd point that out...But the magic system is awesome. It does stop the noobs from getting to powerful and destroying the island. It keeps it exclusive, which is awesome...I like it the way it is...And I don't have it! Sure I want it, but don't just worry for yourself...the purpose of the game is to work cooperatively, not competitively. I believe in the rules even it says "We play with each other...not against each other." Magic System ftw.

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Post by Pellandria » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:05 am

Something to add to that, newbies who are "around a year and waiting" don't have their magechars as main chars usually, that means they might be writte some application and play another char and than come back with"I'm around for x months and noone wants to teach me", a char that doesn't get around, won't get magic.

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Post by Grokk » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:25 am

Pellandria wrote:a char that doesn't get around, won't get magic.
Good god. This stuff just writes itself, doesn't it?

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Post by Alexander Knight » Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:31 pm

Arvemor wrote:Also, in relation to the newbie comment. Some people have also been waiting for about a year...or more. I forget. Just thought I'd point that out...But the magic system is awesome. It does stop the noobs from getting to powerful and destroying the island. It keeps it exclusive, which is awesome...I like it the way it is...And I don't have it! Sure I want it, but don't just worry for yourself...the purpose of the game is to work cooperatively, not competitively. I believe in the rules even it says "We play with each other...not against each other." Magic System ftw.
/signed

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Post by Morbius » Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:34 pm

Quick though, i heard that many years ago when illarion was newer and probly looked slightly more pixelated that to creat a charecter you had to fill out some kind of back ground history charecter aplication thing? Why not make those who want to play a mage wirte one? it would keep the noobs away who cant Rp wouldnt it? and isnt that part of the problem?

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Post by Arvemor » Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:42 pm

Pellandria wrote:Something to add to that, newbies who are "around a year and waiting" don't have their magechars as main chars usually, that means they might be writte some application and play another char and than come back with"I'm around for x months and noone wants to teach me", a char that doesn't get around, won't get magic.
I'm assuming you're picking on me. :?
First off...I wasn't complaining. You make out I am, but I'm not. Just want to clear that up. That may have been lost in translation because you're German. I forgive you.

Second, I was using myself as an example, just to put my thought into perspective. *I* haven't got magic no, and yes, I've been playing longer than he has. Not the point I was making though. The game is about playing co-operatively, not competitively...as I said. You just have to accept some rules and regulations the way they are. While I wish that would mean not swiping at other members who try to guide people into the game (it doesn't...apparently) you just can't help other people's opinions. No matter how much you wish they would keep them to themself. ;)


Edit: I like the rp application idea as well, too.

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Post by Grim_banned » Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:55 pm

Oh my, reading this stuff now, makes me only remember of the time when I was just a newb (not n00b, because I still am one :o ), and created my very first char to be a mage. Well actually, when I created my mage, he was tailoring shoes and selling them in Greenbriar to the NPC that payed the most for them., but let's not go into detail, heh?

The problem with making a mage char is now, as it was back then.. you can not just make it and then hop into the game and start training your l33t skills. I know, I know, in other games, mages are just like any other char, but unfortunately, in Illa, mages are the most unbalanced part of the game. I mean, come on, where have you seen a single char being able to take down entire armies?
Since mages are so unbalanced, it is up to the current community of mage players to keep their numbers to a minimum.. call it elitism if you want, but this thing actually is for the best as it is now..

Screw the whole "magic theory, magic roleplay" bull-crap.. mage chars currently are able to bring such a big influence in the game, that only the most mature of players should play them. No, I am in no position to judge who is more mature than the other, hell, I'm not mature myself, but if you want to have a mage char, prove to the current mage players that you can play with responsibility. I can bet right here and right now, that at least three quarters of those that posted in the Academy forum want a mage just to "pwn stuff".

When mages will be more balanced, the learning system will balance itself as well.. Until then, prove that you are able to play this type of char with maturity and responsibility, not caring only for your own fun, but for the fun of all around you as well.

And I think that these type of topics should stop and get locked now, they bring only senseless flames.

Cheers

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Post by Flux » Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:19 pm

Arvemor wrote:Also, in relation to the newbie comment. Some people have also been waiting for about a year...or more. I forget. Just thought I'd point that out...But the magic system is awesome. It does stop the noobs from getting to powerful and destroying the island. It keeps it exclusive, which is awesome...I like it the way it is...And I don't have it! Sure I want it, but don't just worry for yourself...the purpose of the game is to work cooperatively, not competitively. I believe in the rules even it says "We play with each other...not against each other." Magic System ftw.
Honestly, at first it seems bad.

I was at 13 months of play with the same character when I learnt my first spell (an illusion spell) and 18 when I got a proper teacher, and back then you could only learn 1 rune a week, and there's 25 useful runes not including the teaching rune, so it takes another 6 months to learn magic (plus inconveniences, your teacher doesn't always want to come online to do it for you, so perhaps multiply that value by 1.5).

And you know what?

I'm glad that happened. I can't tell you how awesome it feels to get magic after such a long time. I might not even be here today still if I hadn't had a goal to achieve, that being magic. The days of the academy with lessons were awesome. The one on ones with my teacher were awesome. It was just an incredibly fun experience, through the highs and the lows. There's nothing else in illarion comparable to the struggle for magic, and if you stick it out, you will be rewarded, and the roleplaying opportunities you'll receive with that are just incredible. And then, when you master them and become a teacher, you get to pass on that to others. I think very fondly on the times with my first 3 students.

You really can't expect people to just throw runes at you because you're a good roleplayer. People have to TRUST you. Your char has to be known. And this only comes with a long time of playing. Rarely are people instantly rewarded with magic, and the ones that are are generally well established in the community.

So here's a tip: If you really want magic, don't play your mage as an alt char. I wouldn't recommend even playing alt chars, because you'll be tempted to play with your awesome leet skilled char instead. Rather, play your pathetic, useless character who can't perform anything well, can get clouded in 3 seconds by a noob and can't intimidate anyone with anything other than their personality. And play frequently. May take months, may take years, but if you really HONESTLY want magic enough, and you're willing to put the time and dedication in, you will get it eventually. Doesn't matter who you are or who your char is, someone will reward your efforts eventually.

/endspeech

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Post by Arylide » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:04 pm

There are some very fair, relevant and interesting points of view here that if I am honest are enriching my understanding and swaying my original point of view a little. I still find it highly frustrating and still somewhat unfair that a new mage has nothing to his magical credentials, not even a little something to play with. But seems I’ve had the answer and its good bye social life. Thank you all for shedding a little more light on the dead poet society.

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Post by Arvemor » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:10 pm

I reccommend a healthy social life to go *with* the game, btw. :D

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Post by Llama » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:37 pm

Pellandria wrote:Something to add to that, newbies who are "around a year and waiting" don't have their magechars as main chars usually, that means they might be writte some application and play another char and than come back with"I'm around for x months and noone wants to teach me", a char that doesn't get around, won't get magic.
Wow Pell

I wonder why people don't stay playing a not-a-mage mage character for a whole year doing nothing. They must really be bad players. They should be ashamed of themselves.

Again, I repeat.

The current situation is KNOWN to be a train-wreck. There's no execute or reason to defend it. Its going to be changed, you'll have to wait.

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Post by Rekarafi » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:52 pm

Jesus, not that magic teacher discussion again...how often this was chewed through until now? Ten times? A dozen times?

Seriously, the problem is known, and the magic teaching system actually SUCKS, and i would bet there are changes in progress or in thought.

Just be patient.

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