Searching for content developers / Suche nach Entwicklern

[Estralis Seborian]

Fellow Illarionites,
as some of you might know, the Illarion staff is currently working on an update to Illarion. Technically, this project is growing and prospering, only few obstacles have to be overcome.

What has fallen behind is the development of game content. What do we define as game content?

• Maps (dungeons etc.)
• NPCs
• Quests
• Books
• Tales, history and characteristics of the game world

We need persons who are familiar with the game and its world to create said content. Most importantly, we need persons who are able to bring all the above in compliance with each other. There is no gain in a description of a gnome village 1000 miles away, we need e.g. a dungeon with a legend that is connected to a static quest of a NPC; the legend has to be present in a book and all this has to have a connection to the greater background of Illarion (gods etc.). In addition, elements of the game that are not connected directly to this legend have to refer to it; if you talk to a NPC at a totally different location, it is always good when this NPC also knows about said legend. This is just one example – and you can conclude that it is a big task.

How can you help? Dialogues have to be written, maps drawn and effects described. Even if you are not yet familiar with any kind of scripting, you can provide detailed concepts for quests or fill in / translate dialogues of existing NPCs. Good teamwork is essentially; if a new NPC is created, a connection to the work of others (maps, monsters, books, stories) is mandatory.

We're actually not looking for persons who can write down their fundamental ideas about Illarion on paper. We are looking for persons who introduce such fundamental ideas into the game, to make Illarion a living world where a NPC at least knows about e.g. the gods. We are not looking for persons who want to discuss about every tiny bit of background material. We are looking for persons who create game content on their own and implement common ideas. We are not looking for fancy new features for the game. We look for applications of all the features we have.

If you think you can help in this, are motivated to help Illarion actively and autonomously, are willingly to learn how to edit scripts and create NPCs with the simple scripting language and when you are creative and get things done, please, contact any developer or gamemaster.

Also, keep in mind the drawbacks of working for Illarion:

• No money
• You have to invest a lot of time, several hours a week, or you get nothing done
• You get informations about the game that might spoil your fun as player
• You will have to subdue yourself under the vision of a staff that might have other ideas for the game than you
• And most importantly, you will know about all the content of the update long before it is released. Because YOU created it

See you on the developers' board,

GM Estralis for the Illarion staff

[Enviyatar]

Hallo Estralis,

nur kurz, weil ich gerade nicht viel Zeit habe, aber ich hätte Interesse daran, da es auch zu der Rolle einer meiner Figuren passen würde, Geschichten/Bücher zu schreiben und in diesen jene Orte zu beschreiben. Ich kann aber erst ab April wirklich damit beginnen, wenn ich darf.
lg,
Envi

[Sammy Goldlieb]

Hi Estralis,

ich hab mich in letzter Zeit zunehmend mit NPC's und mit LUA becshäftigt und...joa, ich bin dabei.
P.S.: Kann jetzt gleich beginnen

PO Celdea

[Alexander Knight]

Always here if you need a hand dude

[Das Auge]

Hi Estralis,

ich hab mich in letzter Zeit zunehmend mit NPC's und mit LUA becshäftigt und...joa, ich bin dabei.
P.S.: Kann jetzt gleich beginnen

PO Celdea

Heyho Estralis und CoKg,

Kenne mich schon etwas länger mit Lua aus und habe vorahnungen mit NPCs (habe selber welche gescriptet). Habe dazu noch schwache Erfahrung mit C++ und php. Hätte im Moment auch genug Zeit um zu arbeiten. Wenn interesse besteht, bin ich dabei.

LG Das Auge

[Salathe]

I will gladly assist with any map editing needs. I know one dungeon of mine is already in this update, and possibly a second one that Lennier really liked.

[Retlak]

People, please PM a Developer. It's one thing to sign here saying you can help if needed, but it's another thing to actually get involved.

[maryday]

Remember the sound development.

[martin]

Maybe it should be mentioned that Illarion does NOT work in such a way that there is someone (e.g. "the boss") who tells you what to do and how to do it and you just sit there doing that.
The way it works is: You try to get an overview of what is there and how it works and based on that you have ideas (or collect them elsewhere) and do what you think should be done.

Therefore, "if you need a helping hand, just message me" won't work. Either you help -- that means that you search for yourself what to do -- or... well, you don't.

Martin

[Estralis Seborian]

One might want to add that those who volunteered so far usually got an assignment that could be solved within limited time and really helps the current development of game content. But this is just for getting started - as martin stated, a (content) developer has to develope stuff on his own. Illarion lacks a big roadmap or basic concept that describes what must be done on 100 pages. The good thing about this; you are only limited by your creativity and the possibility of the engine. And the latter usually won't be an issue if you use what we have.

[Estralis Seborian]

As a comment, many people volunteered to develope game content, some even produces good results by now. Some never reported back when I gave an assignment, if you made anything, just drop me a note.

The assignments I gave were simple things to get started, but of course, it cannot work the way that I give out assignments one after another; this hampers creativity. Thus - if you are willingly to develope game content, just do it!

A good thing to start with is to script very, very simple NPCs. Let the player bring some items and reward them with money or other items. Or let them solve riddles. Transfer messages from one NPC to another (using the same quest status for both NPCs). Don't start with fancy big things - finish simple things first.

If anybody needs any help with creating NPCs, there are some templates available. Just don't hesitate to ask for them!

[Damien]

*poke* I have one silly idea. Simple-to-create-content that finds alot of use are maps of dungeons, cellars, caves and other areas.

Now, is there logical reason that speaks against making the map editor (or a version of the map editor) downloadable for everyone ? That editor is fairly easy to use. The map makers could upload the files and screenshots to a forum topic. Map gurus or Lenniers, GMs and other staff members could browse through those, pick those that are worthy, and put them or modified versions into the game.

Doing so might produce a little mass of possibly useful fun maps. Any GM or staff person could look over those and modify and use the best ones.
-> Result :
easily available mass of map content.

[Flux]

Anyone's free to voluenteer to be a map developer, and with something like that you want quality over quantity.

[Damien]

My point is : Let the people play = major increase of productivity.
This way, you might even get probably useable stuff from those who don't want to sign in for dev stuff, but still could have fun making maps.
My reason for that suggestion : When i did quest stuff back then, i always had to wait several months until i got a map when a quest needed one. In the end, i ended up making the most myself (old quest map level space, maps there were made ingame with commands). When we had the working map editor, i requested maps for quests and almost never got answers from our map team cause they had their hands full. When i later got a map for a requested quest thingy, it was very empty and absolutely not working for what was intended, so i asked Lennier for the map editor and made it myself again (dragon quest maps stuff). That some-months-delay is a very huge hindrance for every quest that needs a map.

Quantity/Quality stuff :
Selection one : Person finds his own maps good enough for use and posts it.
Selection two : Map person / GM picks map from posted ones and uses it.

--> no single bullcrap mapcan make it into the game.

The biggest amount of "crappy" maps lies around on people's home computers and never gets posted.

[martin]

*poke* I have one silly idea. Simple-to-create-content that finds alot of use are maps of dungeons, cellars, caves and other areas.

Now, is there logical reason that speaks against making the map editor (or a version of the map editor) downloadable for everyone ?... Any GM or staff person could look over those and modify and use the best ones.

"Silly" quite hits the nail on the head.
First off, everyone who wants to edit the map can ask for the editor.
Secondly, we asked for *content*, not for another 2 billion square tiles of boring, dead map with some stones and trees. This is NOT content. The map is NOT content. Content is.
Thirdly, the time potentially spent on browsing through millions of useless maps could better be used by simply creating what we need: Content.

I have a good idea: Someone could just invent a simple language everyone can learn easily to control NPCs and thus, everyone could create content. Oh, wait, I've done that years ago. Darn.

Martin

[martin]

That some-months-delay is a very huge hindrance for every quest that needs a map.

... which was not the problem we wanted to address here.

Quantity/Quality stuff :
Selection one : Person finds his own maps good enough for use and posts it.
Selection two : Map person / GM picks map from posted ones and uses it.

The existing map needs content. We don't need more maps without content. Comprende?

Martin

[Damien]

... which was not the problem we wanted to address here.

Of course not, but a side effect that helps getting rid of something that annoys gamemasters, and thus is a hindrance to their creativity.
Stuff like waiting around for months and getting bad results in the end makes people inactive, thus this side-effect is a point definitely worth mentioning.

The existing map needs content. We don't need more maps without content. Comprende?

Then improve the map editor's copy&paste capabilities.



---> but while that idea was in my opinion worth mentioning, this indeed seems like the wrong place to discuss that.

[martin]

The existing map needs content. We don't need more maps without content. Comprende?

Then improve the map editor's copy&paste capabilities.

FAIL

[Damien]

I know you guys are busy enough updating, but who cares if it takes ten years or twenty.

The thing is simple. You want more content, improve the ability to create or expand / impfove content / fill maps with stuff. A Community is always more productive than an indivudual.

If you have fifty people toying around with a map editor and post their best results, the chance that someone is amongst them who creates maps that are useable and pretty and "filled with life" is higher than when that person would like to play with a map editor, but would not bother signing up with any "official" stuff because he/she/it does not want to join a staff, or when you only get people who want to be someone with a staff title and give up or fall into inactivity as soon as they find out that there is actual work connected with that. And that's how things usually go in illarion.

[Keikan Hiru]

Martin isn't talking about items populating the map, when he talks about content. He is talking about things to do on a map. Like quests for example.

[Flux]

I make my own questmaps, I don't have a problem >_> . It may take forever but, hey, that's in the job description.

[Damien]

*facepalms* thanks, Keikan. That little translation from martinish was useful. But that's what you get when two nativegerman speakers communicate in english.
Anyhow : Easily made NPC scripts -> I once made a simple template with standarized questions in the (totally easy-to-use) simplified scripting langague, like "who", "where", "what", etc.
One just had to add/replace the NPC's individual answers into the template and append the necessary individual interactions. I don't know if anyone ever got to use it though, perhaps it was too oversized for people without any coding experiences and too fixed for those with. BUT! It makes making quite detailed NPCs a lot quicker.

@Flux : Making maps with the map editor was real fun. Making them in the game with the !tile or !ton commands was just a pain in the arse, but very functional and useful during quests.

The big disadvantage of the map editor (at that stage of development i know) was that one could not place interactive or scriptable items, or even NPCs, like the old Ultima Online worldeditors... i don't know if that is technically possible in illarion though, concerning how the server handles NPCs and scripts.

@martin : is there any technical chance that the simplified scripting languague (and with that, simple NPCs or even interactive items, or even item or monster spawns) get included into some of the next versions of the map editor, after the VBU ? Cause that would make creating actual content dammn easy.
With such a thing, you might get some people very, very motivated. And productive.

[Estralis Seborian]

Dudes, calm down, whoever wants to contribute stuff to Illarion is welcome! However, the goals have changed slightly and having a 20x20 map of rock floor with a single demon spawn does not count as a dungeon anymore .

Damien, your template was a good first approach, too lengthy it was, but still, a good first approach. When I am doing 'my' templates for generic NPC quests, I am still inspired by your template, but being inspired usually means that one makes up his own mind.

Doing maps is a good way to help Illarion, but a map alone does not help. We need quests! Riddles! NPCs! Books! Tales! Secrets! Monsters! And all of this has to fit together. So - if somebody did a map and can add the mentioned stuff above, it is a win for Illarion.

[martin]

The thing is simple. You want more content, improve the ability to create or expand / impfove content / fill maps with stuff. A Community is always more productive than an indivudual.

What, besides the already existing (and widely unused!) public, well-documented simplified NPC language, should there be? NOT map, we talk *content*.
I invented it with exactly that in mind but we lack proper response of the community, to be honest. I am deeply disappointed about that.

Not more maps. We have enough of them. Content IS NOT maps. (That was the last repetition of this statement)

Martin

[Greisling]

Concerning creating simple NPCs:

I have written more than half a dozen of simple NPCs. My experience are:

1. The language indeed is easy to use. Kudos 4 that!
2. However, during scripting the NPCs there were quite a lot of moments whens I came to the point: Now I want to test my NPC.
Though, there actually is no way to test them properly.
So, what I really do miss is some sort of "Illarion without grafix", which allows me to actually test the NPCs - a tool in which I can type my commands and the NPCs reacts as it would react IG.
- Such test tool also would be good to prevent typos.
- Such tool also would contribute to more complex NPCs, since the simple NPC scripter actually gets the feeling of how the NPCs reacts.

Well, one could say: Why don't you ask some dev/scripter to upload the NPC?
My response is:

3. Devs/Scripters already are full of work. I made the experience that it takes quite a long time till the NPCs are uploaded on the server so I could test them. In worst case I find typos/bugs after the upload, need to fix them and then send the fixed NPC back to the dev/scripter again to upload the NPC.
A test tool for NPCs would be a huge benefit and would support simple NPC scripter more than anything else.

Since you need to keep in mind: Those people who use the simple NPC-language normally have little experience in any scripting. It is a new issue and topic to deal with. People usually do learn best by try and error - give us a tool so we actually can try on our own.

[Jupiter]

So, what I really do miss is some sort of "Illarion without grafix", which allows me to actually test the NPCs - a tool in which I can type my commands and the NPCs reacts as it would react IG.

This would be awesome.

[martin]

@Greisling:
Thanks for your really good response!
I'll think about your points as soon as I find enough time.

Martin

[Llama]

To be honest, Nitram once told me to create a simple illarion 'emulator' for testing NPCs out.

Aside from the fact that I wasn't able to start because I'm overworked at this moment (sadly) ... there is this large doubt in my mind -

Is it worth putting a developer on such a complicated project (you basically have to design a parser to understand the NPC language) - when the community doesn't seem to be too eager to design NPCs in the first place?

I mean, if we were SWIMMING in NPCs , quest-NPCs and the like, maybe it would be worth undertaking - but to be perfectally honest, I don't see the community as being very helpful in this regard.

[martin]

I agree, Hadrian (sic!), but there might be a work-around by simply adding some way to simply put an NPC to the testserver so that everyone can play around with that easily and doesn't have to wait for someone else to upload etc.

Martin

[Greisling]

...there might be a work-around by simply adding some way to simply put an NPC to the testserver so that everyone can play around with that easily and doesn't have to wait for someone else to upload etc.

That would be awesome