What happened to the Forum Rock'n Roll?

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Post by Greisling » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:04 pm

What happened to the Forum Rock'n Roll?

My dear friends, players and forum lurkers,

I am shocked.

What happened to the Illarion Forum?

In past anyone could spend hours and hours roaming the Forum and discuss with people about anything - RL and IG happenings in particular.
It even was possible not to log into the game and to be still well informed about any issues IG ... since all IG actions were written down in the forums.

But today?

Today even quite interesting posting are rarely responded.



So I come to the sad conclusion that Illarion has changed. But is change always good?



Hope there are some guys who like to continue the forum dance - hope it won't be the last one.

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Post by Karl » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:09 pm

I started avoiding posting stuff because the rules got much stricter now, and I don't want any more forum warnings. Next one is a ban I think. So yeah, I just avoid posting altogether. Better safe than sorry. :P

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Post by Mesha » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:24 pm

Karl wrote:I started avoiding posting stuff because the rules got much stricter now, and I don't want any more forum warnings. Next one is a ban I think. So yeah, I just avoid posting altogether. Better safe than sorry. :P
You only have one yellow dot. And the rules did not get stricter. Moderators are giving off warnings just as much, or perhaps even less, than in the past. So I do not think that's the reason.

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Post by AlexRose » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:37 pm

The interesting people have left.

In General people have wearied of arguing. Before there were 80 page threads discussing things. Now threads get instalocked. Disagreeing with the staff is futile; there is no point posting in General. We have even lost the people who just argued for the sake of arguing (against e.g. Arien, but Arien doesn't do anything to piss people off anymore).

The forum erupted when the dots were introduced, and then after they were removed I think several lurkers had had enough. Lurkers are good for OT. By 2008 most of the oldies had left (still had a few like Athian around) but we had sort of a new generation of players (Dain, Ava, Julius, Seregon, Will, Dom, Starling, Julia, Joxia, Taeryon etc. and then the Knights of Gobaith and such). By 2009 I think most of us had disappeared. New GM team came, people stopped having big debates in General about unfairity and such, the proposals board became a shambles of crap ideas and OT never recovered from everyone leaving.

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Post by Olaf Tingvatn » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:45 pm

i blame the new players...old players tire of new players..inabillity to role play at times, at least 'i' do.even the RPG forum is dying..i tried to make something there but noone responded*shrugs* boredom sets in to the boring mind, innit?

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Post by Mr. Cromwell » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:46 pm

I have no hard evidence of course, but the policy of "more realism" in the RPG migh be responsible for the lack of activity there. When looking at the average amount of responses per thread there, it feels empty.

It has become an announcement board, really (edit: which is more or less the antithesis of actual roleplay; which is by definition interaction). A few Character-topics, a few forum-RPs.. but none of the interesting debates between characters which were an useful way of allowing public discussion over various issues (which is rather difficult ingame, really).

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Post by rakust dorenstkzul » Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:19 pm

Mr. Cromwell wrote:I have no hard evidence of course, but the policy of "more realism" in the RPG migh be responsible for the lack of activity there. When looking at the average amount of responses per thread there, it feels empty.

It has become an announcement board, really (edit: which is more or less the antithesis of actual roleplay; which is by definition interaction). A few Character-topics, a few forum-RPs.. but none of the interesting debates between characters which were an useful way of allowing public discussion over various issues (which is rather difficult ingame, really).
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Post by Alexander Knight » Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:53 pm

I killed it :)

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Post by Vern Kron » Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:02 pm

Alexander Knight wrote:I killed it :)
Its not funny and not something to use as an accomplishment.

I have felt for a long time that things have been on a sort of downward slide. As more 'old players' left, there were fewer and fewer people to teach the new players. The new players then just assume whatever they are doing is right, and there is no need to improve ever. This drives the older players into hiding/away, and things begin to slide further. Most people don't bother to use proper grammar IG, and everyone is all happy with everyone. This is one of the 'dull' cycles in Illa. A 'rebuilding and preperation' period, so to speak. It is important, but just not exciting. Also, something that has changed since oh so long ago, is that we do not have 'events'. If you wanted to RP, you would actively seek them out, and make it worth it. Now people let the rp come to them generally, and we can't all just 'wait for some one to show up', because then no one ever would. Allow your characters to make mistakes, because then that gives opportunity for conflict, for the excitement that you so crave. And now, whenever an event is held it has so many loops to jump through it almost takes away the fun of it all.

To hold an event:
You have to come up with the idea, and possibly find support (IG), and then plan it out.
You have to try to find a time that suits as many as possible, and then be prepared to either have some one translate or end up limiting the event to one half of the community.
You have to make people AWARE of this event, via rpg posts, IG announcements, and so forth.
You are probably supposed to post it up on the 'quest watch' on the online list, which requires gm approval.
And you may have to find a gm to support you in this quest.

And then there is the inevitable discovery, that your 'event' did not go as well as you hoped. Because alarge portion of the community did not want to go, or was busy, or the server messed up, or so forth. And its discouraging. And part of it now, is that RP is not 'rewarded' like it once was, and often it comes down to either "Super silly happy time! lol" or something decent. Its not bad to have the silly times, but if your goal as a PO is to just have a lol happy time all the time, then you're trolling. And back in the day, if you did something stupid, you got clouded. End of story. Now if you do something stupid, and get clouded for it, either you don't learn anything, or a gm is called and 'Oh, well that was an unreasonable reaction, and I'm sort of new and I think it is new player persecution.' So then the older players are punished. While we are trying to get more players, and develop the game into the VBU, it is wilting in the places that the game matters. To me, the goal of Illarion was not to win a war. Not to have yellow skillz, (though they do help in some people's goals), but to make a story. A -good- story. An -interesting- story. When you look at the server logs, and read it, it could be put into a book and make millions. Have you been doing things that contribute to the story, or have you been contributing to yourself. It is about fun for EVERYONE, not just yourself. And its about having fun IG, and hopefully liking each other ooc.

The RPG board is dead because there is generally nothing going on, and no one cares about stories and announcements are only allowed to be that. Announcements. To keep the game more real, rather than what is best because we can't always be IG to converse. (Like me).

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Post by Grokk » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:24 pm

Awesome post Vern. I haven't been around long enough to know how things used to be, but it is not difficult to see the truth in many of your points.
Vern Kron wrote:Most people don't bother to use proper grammar IG, and everyone is all happy with everyone.
I hate both of these things. Roleplayers are usually renowned for their above average grammar and spelling. It certainly doesn't show here.
And the big-happy-family-holding-hands-running-through-the-meadows thing blows as well. Roleplaying is about telling a story. All stories must have conflict. If everyone is getting dirty knees for everyone else in Illarion, there can be no/little conflict. No/little conflict = no/shit RP.
Vern Kron wrote:Allow your characters to make mistakes, because then that gives opportunity for conflict, for the excitement that you so crave.
Mistakes/flaws/habits/etc are what makes characters interesting. What would you rather roleplay with? A womanising, alcoholic Halfling priest who possesses a stutter, an unhealthy interest in rabbits and light burns to his legs after a poor judgement call involving a candle-lit alter, a promiscuous Dwarven lass and several bottles of cheap wine? Or a human knight who protects and loves everyone, slays dragons and has PG-ed his skills up to yellow? Make your character interesting, not perfect.
Vern Kron wrote:Also, something that has changed since oh so long ago, is that we do not have 'events'.
This is one of the things that encouraged me to join Illarion. I had hoped to participate often in events and perhaps run some of my own once I had seen how they worked here. So much for that.

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Post by Juliana D'cheyne » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:57 pm

1. I had someone tell me they could tell who my "secret" char was by the proper use of grammer. :cry:

2. I have had someone tell me they miss the gm ig because that was the most fun their char has had. Nothing against the concept but should players rely on gm's for their RP?

3. You used to be able to go to trolls bane exclusively for RP "bad" and "good" chars. Now they seem more separated along with most spontaneity.

4. You can get a char ig and wander for ages eventually deciding just to PG until someone on msn asks if you want to RP. I have had chars almost fall down, bleed on the street etc. and barely get acknowledgement. Is cooking that interesting?

5. As far as the forum, someone start a thread for open RP using a "story-line" and not a one to two sentence announcement and I will join.

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Post by Velisai » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:34 pm

Stop bitching and DO things if you're bored. Demanding entertainment from others never changes anything.

As for educating the new players in RP matters, not a single of the old players who are still around does it. They rather tend to push them out of a quest, than have a word with them ooc. So how do you justify ranting about that?

Interesting chars? There are plenty around, in my opinion.

Highly skilled chars? Again, stop bitching. Everyone has equal chances to skill, it's not anyone's fault you don't have time or patience.

Min/maxed chars? I can see your stats with Vel and this isn't nearly as widespread as people say. A perfect fighter isn't even possible at all.

Big-happy-family-holding-hands-running-through-the-meadows?! Where the hell did you find that? If you get to know people better, you will find lots of conflict. Mostly cold conflict at the moment, but it is there. I'd even say it's much harder to get people to cooperate than to find an enemy.
2. I have had someone tell me they miss the gm ig because that was the most fun their char has had. Nothing against the concept but should players rely on gm's for their RP?
No, but GMs have really nice tools to stir things up. Anything involving a GM is unusual, that makes it fun and important. The only thing that is disappointing is when a GM loses interest and the story dies without a proper ending.

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Post by Drathe » Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:43 pm

Get those points in... oops not the Thread Necromancy sorry. On a seriouse note, I'm with Juliana and the simple reason I don't post much is because there really is not much worth replying to either OCC or RP. I find much RP is done in the few groups that stick together and most mini quests I dare say are saved for the GM pets. I just cant be bothered these days waiting on other people or walking the variouse towns looking for a few who arnt in their 'me me groups' to try and RP with. So I cut my nose off despite my face and just do what I want and chop things up. Sorry to be selfish but I dont get dissapointed that way. :)

And as a 'very old' player I'm always happy to help/RP with any new commer to the game. In fact I rather enjoy it and I dont push anyone out of quests or any RP I am up to at the time infact.

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Post by Nalzaxx » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:57 pm

I am resisting the urge to rant so much at the moment.

And I don't want to point fingers but I would like to point out that the Salkamaerian presence did destroy a lot of the momentum that was building in the game. Not to mention the fact that the omni-present guards effectively banned the entirety of the Temple from finding and engaging in roleplay.

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Post by Thrym » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:24 am

I don't contribute much OOCly because I don't think that I have much that is worth saying. As for the RP forums, I'm not really sure. My main character rarely posts anything anywhere simply because of his nature. I have made a few story RP topics, but those tend to die as IG events die or as they lose clear direction. There really are few reasons, I suppose... or at least few that I can think of at the moment.

As for others, I can't really say.

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Post by Alexander Knight » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:35 am

Vern Kron wrote:Please avoid full quotes ~Estralis
I actually agree, although i have been annoying (And i admit it freely) i do honestly care about this game and i have met a few good people.
I think one of the main things with RP is that people are always trying to get one up on each other, have the strongest, most liked char (Which is why i made a jabless new char). Not everyone is a grand knight or a powerful mage. I think we need more "Normal" chars

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Post by Phib » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:50 am

ok
Last edited by Phib on Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Mr. Cromwell » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:53 am

Thank you. :)
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Post by Mr. Cromwell » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:37 am

Velisai wrote:Stop bitching and DO things if you're bored. Demanding entertainment from others never changes anything.
Always a good idea.
Highly skilled chars? Again, stop bitching. Everyone has equal chances to skill, it's not anyone's fault you don't have time or patience.
Well, this is relevant to a degree when it comes to activity in Illarion. Highly skilled characters are vastly different from medium-to-low skilled characters, and also tend to function differently from the latter.. but I explain this more. Let's just firstly make clear, that the equal opportunity to skill up characters on the long term does not matter much on the short run if the amount of high-skilled characters decreases substantially, but this still changes the dynamics of the game somewhat (-> less leadership to go around, less activity).

Since my character managed to cling on to a leadership position for a long time despite being an average fighter, I've contrasted him to many other leader-characters in the game and consequently have thought a bit about the dynamics of leadership in Illarion. Let's say, that on average the skill of the character becomes more defining than the ability of player to "play the game" when it comes to making a difference or assuming a position of leadership. This is not to say that highly-skilled leader-characters would be poorly roleplayed, just that this is the easiest way to gain power or respect and also the most reliable one (as opposed to relying on the assistance of others, which is more unreliable since you can't count other characters to be there when they are needed), and consequently is the most often used method. Thus, while skill does not directly translate into leadership (out of player inability/unwillingness to channel this into leadership) skill is one of those things which enable other characters to lead and lord over lesser men.

Now, what is the effect of decreasing amount of "old" (or in some players' case, just highly skilled ;) ) characters? In short, it means that the amount of characters who can easily make a difference and challenge the established systems and status quo in the game also decreases. So in effect, the quantity of old characters who can challenge other old characters, or serve as rallying point and leader for weaker characters decreases. If there are less such characters around, proportionately the remaining become more powerful and thus reinforce the situation these characters wish to maintain IG, making change, challenges and conflicts rarer. This makes the game directly less interesting.* Skill-less characters are much more easily ignored and fail to achieve much.

I don't say that new characters or weak characters could not make a difference or change the status quo at all. They evidently can. However, this depends more on the ability of the character to gain the support of strong characters, and how well he is played.. or alternatively to the first point, how well others are willing to play along with him. However, this is very uncertain and much more frail than "leadership by sword" as your character is an easy target to the highly skilled characters as soon as you piss off someone, which will happen if you intend to change or do anything at all. ;)

So, in short: Strong characters contribute disproportionately to the leadership of major activity and conflicts in the game. The fewer strong characters there are, the more stangnant the game is.

In fact, just as a sidenote; I'd like to name two particular players, who despite being snubbed and unappreciated by certain members of the community were responsible for creating/supporting a lot of activity and events through having the patience to skill up various characters. Marius and Matt, I hope you guys come back someday. :)

This is my theory based on my own observations. ;)

*Of course, the distribution of old/strong characters between the factions in the game matters too. As does an enormously powerful NPC-army on one side, of course.. but against this, I think the major problem is coordination, above anything else. :wink:

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Post by Pyrrho » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:37 am

Stop bitching and DO things if you're bored. Demanding entertainment from others never changes anything.
That's funny. I believe the point of a game is to provide entertainment, and as such the game design should be there to provided a basis for entertainment. If you are playing a game where you have to go out and MAKE entertainment, then two things are happening:

1) The game is not for you, stop playing and find something else that suits your tastes.
2) The game is poorly designed, stop playing and find something else that actually performs how a game should function.


It is possible to argue one and in some cases may be true, though I am much more inclined to point at 2. Now, before I go on with this, I must first make it clear that game design is a very different subject than game programming. I am sure many of the developers here who have spent time coding have worked hard, but as far as game design is concerned they continue to show how little they know (for the most part). First, when the game started out, I feel it had a nice stride. Sure it wasn't as polished as it is today, but its core functions served a certain player base and attracted this player base. This player based liked to role play.

See, with a role playing game, its nice for designers because they can leave part of the narrative open. Especially in a dedicated Online RPG where you can merely have a setting and allow the players to interact and make their own stories. Now, I feel the setting is slightly bland, but Illarion doesnt fail in this case. In fact, because of the player base, a blander setting is almost optimal. It allows for much more diversity through characters. In this sense, Illarion hit the nail on the head by being mediocre as I dislike far too constraining backdrops when I want to make my character.

Now, that leaves us with the activities and their functions. Back with the original player bases on the old client, players could roleplay. However, it was much more than a graphical chat interface. Its skill system was relatively quick. Later on, its penalty for dying increasing I think was the perfect balance. I didn't have to spend much time hacking and slashing to feel some sense of progression and if I died, I had to go back and do it. It was a constant ebb and flow. You might thinking now that "Hey, this is a roleplaying game, you're main focus shouldn't be on levels and awesome loot! Maybe this game isnt for you!" Well you see, back then the system was so simple it provided these functions in a casual manner. Players could easily jump into the skills and roleplay without dedicating too much effort into one another. This player base was use to sessions being much less arduous. This game design fulfilled its function for its base and did so well. Sure, there was promises of new magic and skills which would have been appreciated but we were happy and when new content came it would be that much better! This ease of play allowed for more diversity of quests, in that since it was a casual system monster encounters weren't the end-all "you best be a warrior with 1337 skills to enjoy this quest". Also, the rare loot at the moment didn't make or break the game.

So, as we played and enjoyed these quests, I spent hours of my early high school years wasting away time in a fantasy world with little effort and it was an easy too transition from real life to a session of RP in illarion! Then, in the middle of a great quest that we never finished (a quest that ranks up in the top 3 no doubt!), the ever looming grand update was on the horizon. We had heard about this update for a while now and we know the skill wipe would be coming, but nevertheless we were anxious and willing for what beautiful moments await in this new client! It would be sleek, and interface with the website. It would be a great change for the game, and in a technical aspect, it was. Losing your skills in the current system wasn't such a hard blow. Sure, you'd miss those special items and you did spend hours gaining those levels, but it didn't seem like work because every part was nice and casual.

I remember my response when I logged on to the new client. Its graphics were miles ahead of the old, no one could not deny that. The map was so much larger, so many new things to explore (really? well talk about that later). So, after a bit of running around and admiring a vast forest of trees to in each direction I decided I'd wait exploring and try to craft. Then, this is where the game design is not apparent. You needed various amounts of tools for ONE trade, some of which were RACE exclusive. Mind you, the player base is at best, 100 or so. The game felt massive, much too massive! Making a single item took hours of toil. It was not fun, it was not casual, it felt like it was for a player base of at least 500. So after giving up fighting and crafting, I went exploring again. Massive trees, and oh, there's a revamped old crypt where zombies live. More vast forests, oh there's Northerot. More and more forest and stretches of land. Aside from a few places, all they really had done was expand the travel time. Back in the old client if you wanted to travel to a different place it would take 10 at the very most. With the new, huge map, walking from one city to another was a venture in itself. Oh sure, going on adventures with a troupe along vast deserts sounds like fun...until you realize the player base cant support it. So they fix that problem by making books and transportation devices that cost money. Well...I cant get money because its not longer a casual system, making profit needs an input of coin which I dont have or go grind for loot and sell it at the bare minimum. This was not why I started playing.

Now years have pasted, and nothing really changed. Small tweaks, even one of mine that was meant to make things simpler has made crafting much more complex! I can't tell you how many times I've logged on just to see the city was empty where I was. I did not feel like wasting a 10 minute trek to pray that the next city would have someone who wasn't busy grinding (and no fault to them, thats how the system is set up).

So, this is why it is number 2. Sure, you can say that number 1 is valid. That it is not my type of game and I should find another game to waste my hours on, and I have. However, recall the old player base. This new update, this new design, was no one's real game. The design that came out was banking on a complex system which required a larger player base, larger staff, and over all just decent ideas on a grand scale. Sure, it works, but does it work for the old players? Does it even work for the new players? Can they even imagine what fun we had, what entertainment lied just by logging on through a stand-alone client and knowing that someone, if not a handful, of fun players would be accessible! I do not know how some of the older players managed to claw on to what exists now.

In conclusion, there was some though put into the design. However, this though was done in a vaccuum. It paid no attention to the current player base and the viability of the functions it presented. It tried to force too many ideas to an existing user. This is ONE thing you should never do in game design. Never force something because you want it to work, chances are it wont work.



~Wall of text ended. I hope most of you interested do read through all of it and maybe put some sense into what has happened and why~
Last edited by Pyrrho on Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Karl » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:01 am

Mesha wrote: Moderators are giving off warnings just as much, or perhaps even less, than in the past. So I do not think that's the reason.
That ain't true.

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Post by Fooser » Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:54 am

Why isn't this thread closed

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Post by Mesha » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:42 am

Karl wrote:
Mesha wrote: Moderators are giving off warnings just as much, or perhaps even less, than in the past. So I do not think that's the reason.
That ain't true.
Wow, your arguments are so compelling.
Why isn't this thread closed
Because I do not see anyone flaming anyone else, and I like this discussion.
And I don't want to point fingers but I would like to point out that the Salkamaerian presence did destroy a lot of the momentum that was building in the game. Not to mention the fact that the omni-present guards effectively banned the entirety of the Temple from finding and engaging in roleplay.
Very possibly so, but, as I see the arguments here, this is a problem that occurred before Salkamar even came into the picture. See Pyrrho's wall of text. A wall of text which I can agree with by the way.

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Post by Alexander Knight » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:27 pm

See this is where i disagree.

If you were in a job do you rely on the boss of the company to give you jobs to do? No of course you dont, you get on with it.
People cannot rely on GM's to create situations, although they are fun but it can be just as fun by yourself. why wait for the spirit to take over you? Possess yourself so to speak. This is a "RP game" not a "rely on the GM's to give you RP" game.

Just my opinion

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Post by Ragorn » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:22 pm

I mainly agree with Pyrro.

The technical aspects of this role playing game are not really relevant. And some technical impovements were the only points which really changed over the time. From the RP point of view, those technical improvements did not make the game better, rather more engine orientated.

E.g. the light system is a nice technical add on. From the players point of view, the dark cities, the constant neet to buy torches/lamps etc. is only annoying.

The distribution of the small player base over the whole map is another problem. E.g. empty cities and less RP possibilities are the result.

What the game really needs are good stories and good quests, not those like "I am the strong deamon, bring me x/do y/follow z . If you deny, I will use my godly force and kill you."

Currently, a staff working only for the Big Update, does not help the current player base - especially having in mind, that the finish of the Big Update will take long. In the best case several more months, realistically one or two years.

A Happy New Year,
Ragorn

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Post by AlexRose » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:41 pm

I think the playerbase change is the main thing.

Also a new non linear quest would be nice. I have a few ideas for some but things seem to turn out worse when you let someone else be in charge of them :P

I think new dungeons would help as well. How many times have I said that? >_>

I even made a drow cave like several years ago and Lennier was like "yeah we'll put that in" and then I forgot to give him monster coordinates and it never happened, but tbh, I don't think monster coordinates matter that much. Just stick a bunch of drows around <_<

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Post by Valione » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:00 pm

@gm's - use your right to play as the 'gods' more often!

People have just lost their imaginations somewhat, or found themselves with many obsticals that they believe holds them back from executing a great role play scenario. I think it would be a good idea for gm's to point new players in the right direction in terms of quest coordination and things like that. Or atleast take part more treating it like open rp and putting an interesting twist on it. help them out a little bit.

There is nothing wrong with repeating a similar style of quest, people need to stop condemning certain styles of quest such as big scary demon doing x/y/z, because you have to keep in mind that some players never got to experience it. Would it really be fair if they never got to?

And the more dungeons thing would be awesome, Alex's maps should be used! The map might be quite big, but tbh there isn't really much to be found after a while, there are many cool locations, but for the map size there could sure be more. Trust me, I looked.
Moderators are giving off warnings just as much, or perhaps even less, than in the past. So I do not think that's the reason.
The game has got stricter and stricter (on the forums and ig), even if the gm's find it hard to admit or believe. Take some time to look back in the history of the rpg forum and notice that even how unrealistic it was for their char to post somewhere, they did so, and this brought on much interesting conflict and provided po's who couldn't get ig with information of what was happening ig so that they can have an oppinion on the matter and let it be known ig. Now some people log in and have no idea of what is going on in an ongoing story line because there are less posts about it. I guess this could be the gm's fault, or the players depending on who has brought upon an interesting matter to be recognized. This got ruined because of some who would post ridiculously, as goes the saying - one ruins it for the rest. As for ig, the most ridiculous rule there is, is that someone has to agree to being robbed by a bandit or get into an argument. The game is for everyone, yet the rules are so individual, it doesn't work like it should.
I think the playerbase change is the main thing.
Players that started ages ago, grew up/ got jobs/ got girlfriends and found themselves with different things to worry about that logging into illarion, thus the player base changes. Can't really be helped.
But on a completely different argument for this, throughout the history of illarion every person will think that the player base they began with is the best. To put it simply a generation of players come along, take the limelight of the game, the older players see them as 'noobs' and leave.

So we look at Illarion going through a time of change, a change that perhaps has taken longer to progress. But when none helps sway that change things get caught in a limbo state. Use your passion for game improvement in a productive way i.e. stir things up or use your imagination for a good concept. I'm sure many players would be happy to get involved.

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Post by Joxia Doral » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:21 pm

Use your passion for game improvement in a productive way i.e. stir things up or use your imagination for a good concept. I'm sure many players would be happy to get involved.
I do this and have found that it is hard to get everyone involved IG at the sme time and RL tends to interfere but that just means patience is needed. Like Alex, I have several ideas stored away that I hope to see in play eventually.
I have to say that the bad magic system is a bit of a hinderance as well. Those who are going to take the dark path should have a way to learn the arcane. Templars are at a complete standstill magically right now.
But I agree with Vern, Nalzaxx, Cromwell, Pyrro, and Ragorn....well and others make good points also so Im not going to add anything further at this point.

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Post by AlexRose » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:21 pm

I don't think that's necessarily the case that other things stopped us from playing. It's not like we seeped out over time, I think there was definitely a short period of time in which all of the "last gen" as I'm gonna call it spontaneously combusted.

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Post by Pyrrho » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:48 pm

But on a completely different argument for this, throughout the history of illarion every person will think that the player base they began with is the best. To put it simply a generation of players come along, take the limelight of the game, the older players see them as 'noobs' and leave.
Its not about players stealing limelight. Its about the the playability of the game. Sure, many players move on with their lives which is fine, however even though I am far busier than I was in high school if the old client remained I would probably be hopping in game once or twice a week. This is because I know I could easily dedicate a few hours a week and obtain some entertainment. The large update was unwarranted and didn't really do anything to improve the function of the game for that player base (note, the a playerbase can have an influx of members, but what they want from a game is what is consistent). The player base that the old client attracted was not served well with the new one.

I dont care who plays the game, just so long as I can find them and RP! Now I cannot, it takes far too much input to reap what little rewards the game offers now.

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