NPCs Are People Too

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Grokk
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NPCs Are People Too

Post by Grokk »

Too often I see people completely ignoring NPCs when they are roleplaying. This is usually only ever an issue when some sort of crime is involved. Please stop it. It is poor roleplaying and ruins what can otherwise be a fun situation. I'm not saying that you need to stop and spend thirty minutes chatting to every single NPC you come across, but when you are roleplaying with someone around them, don't simply ignore them.

Remember that you are roleplaying. It is about us, not I. We are supposed to work together. It is not going to become a RL tragedy if your character is arrested. But it is going to be lame as hell for everyone else if for some reason you think not getting caught makes you leet. The fact that player guards do not work well is the fault of the people playing the criminals. Not the fault of the guard players, nor the game devs, nor anyone else. The PO criminals refuse to let the guards catch them. Playing a 'bad guy' in game does not mean exploiting every single game mechanic you can find (e.g. ignoring NPC guards) so that you can 'pwn some noobs.' It means you are likely playing a character who is going to act outside the law and, as a result, will have to suffer the consequences, sooner or later. If you don't want your character to be arrested or charged, roleplay it so that this is achieved. Make him cunning. Plan out your crimes. Leave no traces. Don't exploit flaws in the game.

Here are some situations that have happened to my characters over the past few weeks:

-Robbed at knife point in a shop with multiple shopkeepers, who apparently did not react at all.
-Assaulted and injured in plain sight of at least one Salk guard. The PO refused to acknowledge the guards at all as they did not believe their character had done anything wrong.
-Threatened at sword point in plain sight of at least two Salk guards. The guards did not appear to notice that someone was wielding a weapon inside the town walls or that said weapon was being pointed at my character's throat, apparently.
-Tied up and ghosted inside a building in Troll's Bane, despite a Salk guard being well within earshot of my shouts for help.

Most of these situations were well roleplayed and would have been very enjoyable, had it not been for the blatant ignoring to avoid the problems presented by the NPCs.
Thurik Goldenhand
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Post by Thurik Goldenhand »

there's no way to attack someone inside the whole city of Trollsbane then, and people don't go out on rodes alot. They use teleporters.
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Thrym
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Post by Thrym »

Thurik Goldenhand wrote:there's no way to attack someone inside the whole city of Trollsbane then, and people don't go out on rodes alot. They use teleporters.
There are ways, but not many of them, sure. I think he has a valid point in that people far too often completely ignore what should be a rather populated area.
Grokk
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Post by Grokk »

There are several places inside the city where guards do not patrol or may not be when a crime is being committed. And just because an NPC is there, does not mean you cannot attack. It just means you have to acknowledge them in your roleplay.
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Vern Kron
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Post by Vern Kron »

The npc's in the shop has been intimidated for many years now. Why would they care if one more person gets cut in their shop? Its not that uncommon.

The npc's are just really REALLY jaded. Ask Borgate for information.
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Arvemor
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Post by Arvemor »

Well, will the VBU have increase AI?

Fingers crossed. Maybe guards that...y'know do stuff? :D

That first robbery was mine...wasn't ignoring them...I just forgot. :oops:

Even though I'm one of them, I agree. Some people have broken laws right in front of guards, even after I made a point of implying that they are watching.
e.g. #me looks at the guard who gives the unruly lizard a stern look.
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Jupiter
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Post by Jupiter »

I agree with you, Grokk.

But it is not me, even the rules agree with you!
Furthermore it is not allowed in the sense of the game logic to ignore NPCs in your own roleplay. No criminal would rob another character right in front of a town guard, even if the guard is only a NPC.
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Juliana D'cheyne
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Post by Juliana D'cheyne »

Right now it is a little confusing ... at least to me. There is just so many times you can RP acknowledgement of an NPC "Arrrrrrrr" (take away or add a few "r"'s) without simply ignoring them in favor of the active RP going on around. Only the guards are not to be ignored, correct me if mistaken, and most players need to just remember this until they are tweaked.
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Jupiter
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Post by Jupiter »

Juliana D'cheyne wrote:Only the guards are not to be ignored, correct me if mistaken
You are wrong.
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Galim
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Post by Galim »

I agree with Grokk's post completly. Thank you for writing it. This is a serious issue, since it doesn't just show a lack of RP involving the npc's, it also makes the current salkamaerian troops look like heartless bastards. Often I heard in the last weeks that the salkamaerians don't care for criminals and the safety of the peoples since they simply watch and don't do anything when a crime happens infront of them. That means any criminal ignoring the guards presence and committing a crime infront of them is also doing some sort of forced roleplay since he decides that the guards won't help the victims and just watch. And with that he takes influence on the overall picture of the salkamaerian troops. The salkamaerians are a GM lead quest and the characters are GM played. That counts also for the NPC's. If a player decides now that a npc guard doesnt care for a crime he commits with this forced roleplay against the GM since he, as a player, takes the desicion from the GM about how the NPC guards have to behave.

I really hope that the peoples will start caring for the NPC's. That doesn't involve just the guards. Often I see how someone walks upon a trader and writes "Buy 3 shovels" or "What buy". They don't use real sentence. They treat them like the NPC they are. It doesnt hurt if you greet the NPC aswell, or wish them a good day. Or atleast use full sentences when you deal with them.
Well...the quest npc's are a bit different...i myself stood forever infront of one and tried to find the right phrase to trigger the next information...i know how tiresome it can be to use just full sentences with those npc's :lol:

Even in Runescape the NPC's react on such behaviour. If you don't greet them or walk away from them without saying something they make a reprehensive comment.

So lets all shout!

NPC's are Peoples too!
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Kranek
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Post by Kranek »

There are 2 problems with criminals in towns: wanna-leet-criminals and super-hero-guards. Let me explain the lsat one first:
A super-hero-guard has eyes in the back of his head, is able to hear everything and has super-fast-movement. Even if he is in a conversation with 2 people at the same time, he can sense a evil criminal sneaking 10 metres behind him in the night, even if the criminal makes no noises at all.
A wanna-leet-criminal gives one emote "#me runs" and...well, runs. He doesn't give the other people any time to react, or to write an emote or anything else.
And now the funny fact: both sides act this way cause the other side acts this way!!!!!1111oneoneoneeleveneleven
I dont know who started that bulls*** first, but as long as one of these groups is around, the guards will act like super-heroes cause they will not have any chance to capture criminals and the criminals will not react on NPCs or emotes to hold them when they want to run.

Just my two cents, but maybe the people involved can think a bit about their behaviour...
And to the victims of criminals....i even gave 1 goldcoin to 2 robbers doing a great rp...guys, those things are 1s and 0s in some server...dont be too greedy...a good thievery can be very cool, even for the victim!!
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Mesha
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Post by Mesha »

Code of Conduct wrote:3. Fun also means fun for others

Consider whether everything you do in game is also fun for other players and try to make it an event to remember for them as well.
*is loving this thread right now* So much truth in here! The quote is for emphasis of Kranek's post.
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Alexander Knight
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Post by Alexander Knight »

Okay guys just wanna say there are places in the city that you can attack people.

Tailors shop, library second floor, north gate room, back of the crafters/smithy lodge and any place in the tavern as i'm sure borogate dont mind :P

I do wanna say that some people do RP NPC's and some people even take it to the extremes. Like me :D
On the water or Irundal quest i had to Timo the halfling and kinda hung him upside down by his leg? :P Cos of that i'm pretty sure i got banned from that shop and dont go in there no more.....

And just to say... If a "Guard" see's you ignoring him i'm pretty sure the GM's wont like it and will take over the guard and kick your ass :P

But i have to admit i have attacked someone infront of a guard for self defence reasons but i'm sure they would understand as i was told by a player guard to kill the lizard for attacking me :P
Last edited by Alexander Knight on Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Alexander Knight
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Re: NPCs Are People Too

Post by Alexander Knight »

Grokk wrote: Not the fault of the guard players, nor the game devs, nor anyone else. The PO criminals refuse to let the guards catch them. Playing a 'bad guy' in game does not mean exploiting every single game mechanic you can find (e.g. ignoring NPC guards) so that you can 'pwn some noobs.

:( Wish someone taught me how to do this. I been arrested many MANY times
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Olaf Tingvatn
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Post by Olaf Tingvatn »

mh...yes..uh-huh..i agreee really...but, heh..if, say liza eats a fish, like she emotes every 20 secconds or so, none of my chars are going to ARRRRRpee to anny of that. but since you are mostly talking about guards, yes..agree*too tired to go all sortsa poke and scratch* some people seem to have problems with using #w like "gib meh monneh!" for onor then #w "buy 2 silver" etceteraaaa..and ALLWAYS emoting to something is nooot something i would do, but, thats me...
Rekarafi
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Post by Rekarafi »

Same here. There are ones who eat 5 fishes and rp 5 times #me eats a fish.

What would they do if they would eat 100 cherries? Crash the server?

Rp'ing is good, and should be involved. No need to greet every NPC, but its alright to give a lil chit-chat ti borgate one time
or a #me nods to the guard as he walks to the blacksmith is alright.

And yeah, if you are eating a bunch of cherries, type #me eats a bunch of cherries
instead of
#me eats a cherry
#me eats a cherry
#me eats a cherry
#me eats a cherry
#me eats a cherry
#me eats a cherry

anyways, thats no blame, just a hint ;-) nobody's perfect.
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Ylvie
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Post by Ylvie »

I love to include Hagar up in Nordmark when being in the tavern.
There's less room than it is around Borgate so you can't just ignore him and his doings except when being caught up by a discussion or something like that.
And it's fun for the others if someone actually includes a NPC that way, at least I think it is never heard that it's not.
Grokk
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Post by Grokk »

Just to clarify, I don't think anyone seriously expects you to RP with an npc every single time they auto-emote. Just acknowledge them when it is reasonable and sensible to do so.

Straight from the rules:
Furthermore it is not allowed in the sense of the game logic to ignore NPCs in your own roleplay. No criminal would rob another character right in front of a town guard, even if the guard is only a NPC.
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The great one
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Post by The great one »

Ah yes, the Salk guards... Mhm, is it just me or are these lifeless avatars that are suppose to guard the town in a ridiculously two dimensional way (and I'm not talking graphics) just ludacris?

I mean come on, they are there for rp reason, sure, but when it would appear that actual PO TB guards seem non-existant (perhaps because - and lete be honest - they don't HAVE to be there anymore) , can we really keep succumbing to the lame excuse that no crime can happen because these lifeless shells are there?... I mean fine, it 'might' be a legit arguement if they came to life once in a while (gm), or if even the prince made some public displays - but fact of the matter is that the gm input after the war as been slim to non-existant in terms of entertaining the players with their 'noble salkness', or even making any changes for the better of the land/ taking part in blah blah BLAH.

Crime happened in bane since forever.. Even if elite PO guards were patrolling the area non stop, who's to say it won't still happen?... Was this quick fix really for the better? And does it REALLY improve the overall atmosphere and rp of the game? These are just a few questions I ask myself, and all answers lead to nay. Was more interesting before, perhaps a bit more chaotic, but interested granted nontheless. Everybody knows that the only PO's that play bandits these days are newbs, because all the older people realize that Illarion isn't a game where it can legitimately happen. So they just max their skills.

I don't buy it (and I'm not talking about the game).
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The great one
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Post by The great one »

But thats just the guards (I concentrated on that because it seems to be what started the topic)

I do however having a small converstation with Borgate or whatever is a good thing, too many people do ignore it.

I have come to the conclusion that Illa is more of a nannay state now because of noobs (like me), hopefully atleast a few will learn something from this thread.
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Alexander Knight
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Post by Alexander Knight »

Bring back the old town guard and Militia :)..... Minus Taliss of course
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Velisai
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Post by Velisai »

Those were fun times. At least for me they were, not so much for Vel.
During her militia time, she was extorted to hand over her armor, attacked by all sorts of lunatics, abused by the citizen she tried to protect and branded as a Temple member.(Seriously? Vel a Templar? Who the Hellsbriar came up with that?)

Agreed that Salkamar got a bit boring, but Bane is still pretty dangerous. Hint for thieves: Augham is so pissed all the time, he probably wouldn't recognize his own mother.
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Alexander Knight
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Post by Alexander Knight »

Velisai wrote:Those were fun times. At least for me they were, not so much for Vel.
During her militia time, she was extorted to hand over her armor, attacked by all sorts of lunatics, abused by the citizen she tried to protect and branded as a Temple member.(Seriously? Vel a Templar? Who the Hellsbriar came up with that?)

Agreed that Salkamar got a bit boring, but Bane is still pretty dangerous. Hint for thieves: Augham is so pissed all the time, he probably wouldn't recognize his own mother.
XD Well my first day i got my ass kicked by a demon skeleton, a few months in i wanted to kill half the towns people for being rude and the other half were nice.
Helped arrest loads a peoples and i was an ex temple :)
Grokk
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Post by Grokk »

The great one wrote:can we really keep succumbing to the lame excuse that no crime can happen because these lifeless shells are there?
The thing about crimes is that that there must be both criminals and victims. When RPing, these victims must cooperate with the criminals. If they wanted, they could simply walk away/ignore the criminal/make the criminal fail every single time. The fact that crimes even go ahead in Illarion means that people enjoy being robbed/assaulted/etc and want it to happen. No one is saying that no crimes can happen in front of the NPC guards. We are just saying that you have to acknowledge them in your RP, and therefore, most of the time you probably won't succeed in breaking the law or will be punished shortly after.

Yes, like the entire island of Gobaith, the guards are lifeless shells. If you are only looking at it in terms of the game mechanics. Looking at it in terms of roleplay, the guards open up a whole new range of possibilities. It is our job to breathe life into all parts of the game, including the guards.
The great one wrote:Was this quick fix really for the better? And does it REALLY improve the overall atmosphere and rp of the game?
Yes it was and yes it does. As long as you use them as they are supposed to be used. Roleplay the guards yourself. What doesn't improve the atmosphere and RP is having a bunch of people running around the most populated town on Gobaith killing and stealing whenever they please. What doesn't improve the atmosphere and RP is having said people go unpunished in game and carry on playing as though nothing happened.[/quote]
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Kranek
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Post by Kranek »

I want to point out another thing related to the topic. Remember that the chars LIVE on gobaith. So, even when the PO is not online with the char, the char has to be somewhere...so visiting an "empty" settlement and claiming it cause no one is online is worst RP ever!!! If you want to rp with people, visit them when they are online...but dont assume that the chars vanish into thin air as soon as they log out!
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Vern Kron
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Post by Vern Kron »

Weren't we told before hand, that if we want to cause trouble in Troll's Bane, you should ask a GM for permission first anyway?

If you want to defend Troll's Bane being a protected area, look at it like this:

Troll's Bane has suddenly became the Prince's capital of the island, and he will use whatever force neccasary to keep it that way.

If you wish to defend Troll's Bane not being protected, look at it like this:

If you are going to count these guards as guards, there needs to be a legit cost. They need to be legit in every sense, just like the merchants are for towns.
Except these cost.

The 'Prince' (and by this I mean one of his advisors as well, even though they are all the same), should be buying resources from the town. Regularily. From town's people.

Those are two ways to look at it. Personally, I think an agreement can be reached.
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